Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

[Sagacious Sundi]

Good point with the RNG beaing able to wear vermy cloak and stuff. However, I think the items that confuse me the most with PUP are hope staves and errant gear... So confused... But I still think SE screwed up with blue capes and meant to say "RDM" instead of "RNG".

[Eddie]

How about PUP wearing Usakakbooboo armor

[miokomioko]

items that confuse me the most with PUP are hope staves

No SHIT. ARGH.

[aurik]

items that confuse me the most with PUP are hope staves

We call it the "pup staff", because it's so mindbogglingly out-of-place.

[Elmer the Pointy]

items that confuse me the most with PUP are hope staves

We call it the "pup staff", because it's so mindbogglingly out-of-place.

You remember that "Jump to Conclusions Mat" from Office Space?
I'm fairly sure a variation of that was used to design PUP... not to mention the inclusion of alcohol...

"AHAHAHA!! You rand on Throwing skill! Most dishonorable..."

[doofy]

As it is, I have the best gear a PUP can use short of usukane (which I am actively farming for), and all the attachments except some of the 4 newest ones (Schurzen, etc.), and in an average Greater Colibri merit PT I parse about twice the damage as my Sharpshot. You make me into a back line job and how does that help me? Now, if my automaton did twice the damage as me, then there might be something to it. But even then you're cutting a significant portion of your damage output without adding anything in return since you can't rest and deploy your automaton at the same time.

You're still basing the purpose of the job on a merit party. I dont know if you just havent had the opportunity yet or simply dont do anything with PUP other than meripo, but the job shines with the master staying away from the mob in HNM/etc. situations. Of course the master does more in T-VT situations, the job can even take down VT mobs on its own, but Attuner/Target Marker/Turbo Charger cant make up the attk/acc/haste provided by a bard + gear + food on T-VT mobs. Parse your damage on endgame outside of meripo, and match it up with how much babysitting the master needs with songs/heals/debuffs to maintain with the puppet. You'll outparse it in meripo, the puppet will spank your damage on anything else. The other side to this, as previously stated, would be to focus on master damage while the pet buffs you. Until the puppet can sing (there are actually singing animations for it in model viewer along with ninja casting, but meh) and they unlock the damn casting AI for haste/prot/etc. this isnt a viable option.

You have an expendable little robot that you can control/buff/heal all on your own that is pretty much equal to a T pet for a BST that you can take anywhere. You need nothing from any other job type, short of COR buffs. X PUPs and a COR in a party would need NO OTHER SUPPORT whatsoever (finally had both BST and PUP rolls for more than 5 minutes last night and the results were rather impressive) if the PUPs stay away from the mob. Once again, this is not for meripo, where of course you'll be /war and meleeing due to the current state of xp inbalance. The job is unique in one way (puppet), and while its enough to be functional, is gimped in another. It has no native meleeing traits or abilities other than MAIII, and /war works all the time because the job usually can't put up enough damage to be in danger of pulling hate.

The wtf armor choices are either remnants from the Necro job (PUP Staff has no place whatsoever on the job), or just random garbage due to a lack of options. Usu was pretty much a "where the hell else can we put it" thing and functions as meripo/soloing enhancing gear. If they wanted to unlock the door on it being a melee focus job, they'd give it the rest of the eastern sets/kotes/etc. Even if they did this, its still just making up for 225 base skill and going against the default idea for the job of puppet first, melee second.

The job is basically a big unfinished beta test (high throwing skill but a requirement that makes it impossible to throw anything.... "Niiiiiice"). There are still so many inconsistencies that its difficult to lean one way or another. The only thing I'd say is a fairly accurate picture of the job right now is the enm60, and even that varies from one PUP to the next. Some use SW/SW and melee, others let the puppet do most if not all of the work.

Edit :

"AHAHAHA!! You rand on Throwing skill! Most dishonorable..."

Sums it up perfectly, there's no logical reason for a lot of the things they did with the job. My guess is that over half of the jumps landed on the "Moot" square.

-Vyzrael (Asura)

[Toth]

Backline PUP is about as useful as Melee SMN in all honesty. The only time I stay back as master is on Cerberus. Blaze Spikes + Uludation makes meleeing as the master more trouble than its worth.

[thestalkmore]

Backline PUP is about as useful as Melee SMN in all honesty. The only time I stay back as master is on Cerberus. Blaze Spikes + Uludation makes meleeing as the master more trouble than its worth.

You......come.....to events.......as........PUP?

*headexplode*

[Lordender]

i just gotta do it, lolpup.

[Lordwafik]

i just gotta do it, loltoth'spup.

>_>

Vyzrael's pup is awesome because he understands what the job is all about, and not trying to make it something it's not (like a RDM trying to melee)

[Toth]

Excuse me but both Vyzrael and I know how to use PUP effectively, thank you. I like to bring PUP to events (if I have permission of course) to continue to test things about the job. Unfortunately, there really is nothing to report and research until the next patch.

[Dohorehn]

permission? what's that? free will, huh? NAH!!!

[Sonomaa]

permission? what's that? free will, huh? NAH!!!

coming on PUP to events without asking makes you a dick, asking to come on said PUP to events makes you a lol but at least your not a dick

[Sagacious Sundi]

permission? what's that? free will, huh? NAH!!!

coming on PUP to events without asking makes you a dick, asking to come on said PUP to events makes you a lol but at least your not a dick

Yes, they're dicks, but people who are afraid of using PUP during an event are pussies. And people who don't let you use PUP during events are assholes. Blahblahblah, etc.

[Ryko]

permission? what's that? free will, huh? NAH!!!

coming on PUP to events without asking makes you a dick, asking to come on said PUP to events makes you a lol but at least your not a dick

Yes, they're dicks, but people who are afraid of using PUP during an event are pussies. And people who don't let you use PUP during events are assholes. Blahblahblah, etc.

I'd rather be an asshole that downs faf faster with a BLM or a samurai than captain loveydovey who lets someone bring their autistic stick figure around for "rockin damage!"

[SamanosukeShiva]

just wondering, how soon can automaton use a WS again after doing one?

is it completely random? or there's a solid timer like /ja?

[Bakthi]

Also, where would you consider BST to be pet/master wise? Obviously not at either end (Pet>Master or Master>Pet). BST can be considered more pet-reliant since it can use pets more frequently (after one is defeated or released), yet they have more melee gear and higher combat skills.

When a BST is solo or in a duo, typically the pet needs to be doing more damage than the BST, unless the BST has an awful lot of -enmity on. For varying reasons and with mixed success, you can choose to strategically take hate from your pet at certain times; this works best at 74+ if you have a lot of haste gear and /NIN. For the most part, though, you're forced to do pet > BST for safety reasons. TP is typically saved until the end of the fight.

When I'm in a party, those concerns are no longer present. I can WS at 100%, and generally try to do as much damage as possible. Also, the mobs are (for the most part) higher level, and I am (in most areas) forced to make due with a substandard jug pet. My pet is now suffering from a much larger level gap, and also is a Fucking Crab With Baskets. It can't eat food or wear a Hauby to keep up. Its damage becomes a footnote, something to help me close the gap between myself and other DDs. I imagine HNMs would be similar if I ever bothered to take my BST to one.

GAH put some freaking CHR on it for chrissakes! BRD got boned on CoP ring, that was enough. ;-;

We did, but I have no desire for CHR in the neck slot; that's one of the few places I still happily fill with buyable gear. I'd certainly be interested in a torque that adds refresh or haste (can still macro in wind torque for debuffs), or maybe something for the foot slot that makes me stop saying "I guess I'll just have 30 MP and weak Fast Cast".

permission? what's that? free will, huh? NAH!!!

coming on PUP to events without asking makes you a dick, asking to come on said PUP to events makes you a lol but at least your not a dick

Yes, they're dicks, but people who are afraid of using PUP during an event are pussies. And people who don't let you use PUP during events are assholes. Blahblahblah, etc.

I'd rather be an asshole that downs faf faster with a BLM or a samurai than captain loveydovey who lets someone bring their autistic stick figure around for "rockin damage!"

We have one person with 75 PUP in our LS; he also has RDM, NIN, BST, and PLD at 75. He's...awfully excited about PUP, and it does look like a fun job, and we try to let him use it when possible. But sometimes, we have to say "Sorry, but we need something better in that party slot; please bring this job instead". Obviously if what we really need is a NIN or RDM, PUP is not going to cut it. This is especially true if you're, say, splitting up into small groups for Limbus. I don't get to use my COR all the time instead of my BRD, either, and that bothers me not at all. I have more fun on it, but "using COR" is a secondary goal to "getting the job done".

[Toth]

We have one person with 75 PUP in our LS; he also has RDM, NIN, BST, and PLD at 75. He's...awfully excited about PUP, and it does look like a fun job, and we try to let him use it when possible. But sometimes, we have to say "Sorry, but we need something better in that party slot; please bring this job instead". Obviously if what we really need is a NIN or RDM, PUP is not going to cut it. This is especially true if you're, say, splitting up into small groups for Limbus. I don't get to use my COR all the time instead of my BRD, either, and that bothers me not at all. I have more fun on it, but "using COR" is a secondary goal to "getting the job done".

Pretty much how it is for me. A smart PUP knows when bringing PUP is a feasible option. I made a list of what mobs PUP can survive predominately against and also contribute solid damage:

PUP 'friendly' HNMs: Cerberus, KB, Aspid, all sky HNMs and Kirin, Jailor of Prudence/Faith/Temperance/Fortitude, Ix'Aerns, maybe Khimiera (if the SS is safely out of Temberous Mist and its AOE attacks, Salvage mobs/HNMs, Limbus mobs/HNMs, and finally, dynamis mobs/HNMs.

PUP 'unfriendly' HNMs: Fafnir/Nidhogg (Hurricane Wing), Ouryu, Bahamut v2, Jailor of Hope, Jailor of Justice, Jailor of Love, AV (duh lol), and lolHydra.

This does not mean that I bring PUP to them of course. I just like to bring PUP when we have a ton of people and I am just burned out on BLM and SMN. Unfortunately, I am now burned out on PUP and waiting for the next update before taking it out again.

[safer]

on the note of SE and gear choices for pup... it doesnt matter what SE had in mind when the job first started because SE sees how people are playing the job and believe it or not, responds to players with respect to certain changes... they gave it mage gear so it could stand back, people started to melee so now it has usukane gear...

another example is corsair.. when corsair was first annouced i immediately thought cor/rng would be the best combination for the job... however people started to play cor/whm in xp party situations even though cor had no access to any mp gear aside from "all job" pieces like rings and such... the update that followed after introduced lvl53 Silken armor set equipable by corsairs giving them an option to do /mage in xp party, (however wrong and useless it may be)

[Dohorehn]

permission? what's that? free will, huh? NAH!!!

coming on PUP to events without asking makes you a dick, asking to come on said PUP to events makes you a lol but at least your not a dick

that's pretty stupid