Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

[Jeryhn]

LW quote

ffxi is not balanced.

If having a BRD+WHM+RDM(or BLM) + tank + 2 DD is not balanced idk what this game is :/

support + attack + defense, what else you need?

ok im generalizing too much but w/e <.<

Because some jobs are better than attack/support/defense than others, while also being pigeonholed into one of those particular roles.

For instance, summoners are not seen as an adequate support job for one reason: We don't have the ability to Refresh other people, and in fact, have to depend on others to Refresh us to keep our MP flowing.

[Septimus]

I was thinking this as well though I think we can all agree it's far more fun to sit around and piss and moan about how everything sucks. Don't sunshine on our rainy parade!

Welcome back to our coverage of the Square-Enix FFXI update parade.

Look what balloon is up next? It's everyone's favorite worthless HNM Hydra. It takes 75 people and 100 gallons of helium just to keep it afloat!

I didn't know that Willard.

And following up the Hydra balloon, it's the float of failed JSE.

Wow, look at it stacked high with Wise gear, Hydra Armor, and who can forget Khimaira gear?

Coming up after the next commercial break the North San 'dOria High School Marching band performs a song about popped NMs with non-100% drop rates and the Al'Taieu float. Don't miss it!

[Tajin]

Because some jobs are better than attack/support/defense than others, while also being pigeonholed into one of those particular roles.

For instance, summoners are not seen as an adequate support job for one reason: We don't have the ability to Refresh other people, and in fact, have to depend on others to Refresh us to keep our MP flowing.

SMN uses BP:R , SMN uses BP:W

there you go, middleware :D

[Jeryhn]

Because some jobs are better than attack/support/defense than others, while also being pigeonholed into one of those particular roles.

For instance, summoners are not seen as an adequate support job for one reason: We don't have the ability to Refresh other people, and in fact, have to depend on others to Refresh us to keep our MP flowing.

SMN uses BP:R , SMN uses BP:W

there you go, middleware :D

SMN uses Rage.
SMN uses Ward.
SMN just spent 350-400 MP, and still needs Refresh.

gg.

[Tajin]

SMN has never been fixed dont give me shit >.>

[Siatdiat]

LW quote

ffxi is not balanced.

If having a BRD+WHM+RDM(or BLM) + tank + 2 DD is not balanced idk what this game is :/

support + attack + defense, what else you need?

ok im generalizing too much but w/e <.<

Ok for the BRD spot how many jobs can fill that role? Oh whats that? Just 1? ok.

And WHM? 1 again... and for RDM too.

Ok wheres our tank? K we can get a PLD... wait, were meriting? LOL PLD, K get a NIN then. 1 again.

Now 2 slots for a DD! Try for a WAR first. No WAR?! shit, get a MNK then. O.O; No MNK either? /cry, get a SAM or DRK or RNG or something, please dont get a DRG, BST, or PUP if you can help it

Yeah your right its totally balanced I dont know what I was thinking.

Btw I was confused at first why you picked a merit set up. Then I remembered that meriting is the biggest part of ffxi endgame now. Capped merits in the long run add up to more than the difference between hard to get best gear and easier to get back up choices. Sucks for that hardcore <insert unpopular merit job> who lvls WAR to get merits at a decent pace. He puts all his merits into his job he doesnt even use to merit with, and after awhile probably says fuck it, Ill merit WAR and just do everything as WAR now. Hmm, maybe thats why so many people play certain classes related to others... because they are so well balanced.

Please forgive me for my obvious oversight of the facts.

[Popsiclestick]

SE could fix the issue with a JA that converts PetTP to MP and put it on a 3 minute timer

[Nystul]

I was thinking this as well though I think we can all agree it's far more fun to sit around and piss and moan about how everything sucks. Don't sunshine on our rainy parade!

Welcome back to our coverage of the Square-Enix FFXI update parade.

Look what balloon is up next? It's everyone's favorite worthless HNM Hydra. It takes 75 people and 100 gallons of helium just to keep it afloat!

I didn't know that Willard.

And following up the Hydra balloon, it's the float of failed JSE.

Wow, look at it stacked high with Wise gear, Hydra Armor, and who can forget Khimaira gear?

Coming up after the next commercial break the North San 'dOria High School Marching band performs a song about popped NMs with non-100% drop rates and the Al'Taieu float. Don't miss it!

Lets not forget that yet again, the final float- AV, didn't make it to the parade because no one could figure out how to get it started.

[Siatdiat]

SE could fix the issue with a JA that converts PetTP to MP and put it on a 3 minute timer

Once again a random player has a better grasp of how to fix game mechanics than the developers.

[Jiade]

If having a BRD+WHM+RDM(or BLM) + tank + 2 DD is not balanced idk what this game is :/

support + attack + defense, what else you need?

ok im generalizing too much but w/e <.<

He said endgame isn't balanced. And... it isn't.

[Popsiclestick]

SE could fix the issue with a JA that converts PetTP to MP and put it on a 3 minute timer

Once again a random player has a better grasp of how to fix game mechanics than the developers.

Hah you want to talk about development team being all mighty gods. If I recall, the developers have patched jobs due to flaws or adjustments. If developers were correct on an issue, nothing would get adjusted unless the cap was raised and job abilities would have to be nerfed due to main/sub job combos (or the obvious addition of content)....

[Tajin]

ok im generalizing too much but w/e <.<

1.- Yeah i used a merit setup but idealistically (read: the way SE seems to think) you should get that kind of setup 12-75

anyway, lets argue.

-so, you want more tank jobs?, more healers? 18 jobs are not enough?

Jer: SMN cant auto refresh, but you want to do 1k-2k damage and dont have to rest?

******
EDIT: NVM SE should remove all other jobs from the game and there we go, balanced game <.<

******

[BRP]

MP recovery is sort of ridiculous in this game anyway. hMP is pretty nice, but doesn't help as much(and isn't around for most of the game). There is a series of "mage" weapons named Staves. Now staves, expect for a certain few, are pretty much useless compared to rods. They should be given +hMP(and maybe Clubs +hHP for the hell of it) that slowly climbs until they are replaced by Dark Staff.

But, that doesn't really fix post 51. Two things come to mind here: SMN's Refresh trait should become stronger after level 37(so subbing only gets 1 tick still). Second, and some people might find this horrible, split Refresh into two spells. Refresh I at level 25 and Refresh II at level 41. Refresh II being the Refresh we know now and Refresh I being 1 MP regen. Refresh II would overlap Refresh I(as would most juices). This actually makes RDM more worthwhile to have in a party levels 25 to 40. Also, the more obvious fix, players level 50 and up can get a gimped Refresh that helps out... better than nothing. Doesn't make anyone currently strong weaker, but it does make things easier to deal with in some level ranges.

EDIT: Avatar's TP to MP is pretty good ;o.

[Jeryhn]

SE could fix the issue with a JA that converts PetTP to MP and put it on a 3 minute timer

Once again a random player has a better grasp of how to fix game mechanics than the developers.

Yep, pretty much. MP Chakra could even work too, but Avatar TP > SMN MP makes a lot more sense and would give SMN the whole "I wanna keep avatars out" thing they've been wanting forever.

Jer: SMN cant auto refresh, but you want to do 1k-2k damage and dont have to rest?

Where did I say that? You said: "SMN is useful, you can use Rages and Wards now!" Not all of our Wards are useful... in fact, very few of them are for their MP cost. The only Bloodpacts that make sense on a effectiveness vs. cost ratio are Fenrir's Ecliptic abilities, and even those are only situationally useful due to their dependence on the moon phase.

Also, if you're under the impression that SMN can unleash 1000+ dmg Bloodpacts at will, you're sadly mistaken.

[doofy]

The AF storyline makes it apparent, and playing the job itself makes it apparent, that both master and pet are vital to whatever role you are trying to fill.

You act as if the master doesnt do anything if the puppet is the focus on HNMs, you're directing maneuver traffic and keeping it alive. Punching crap is just one function of the master (description of the job originally even said something like "h2h to fall back on" or whatever), and its a secondary function at best.

Autos needed A base skill from the start, not the bullshit B- with +10 from merits on two out of three (repair is a lot more valuable to merit so its pretty much +10 to only one, but thats a different discussion). After testing stuff with virtually every attachment the ONLY reason the master does more in meripo/xp is a simple matter of raw acc/attk/haste for T-VT mobs and the lack of a strong bonus from Attuner/Target Marker. If you could attack cap the puppet, like so many melees are in meripo nowadays, its attacks and WS would be comparable.

On anything IT+ the puppet will hit harder than anyone else in the party given the right attachments/maneuvers, the only issue left in this case is haste. This can be eliminated by a Turbo Charger + Overdrive, but 60s out of every 2 hours = pfft. Watch a VE puppet loaded with FM TM WM + Attuner/Turbo Charger/Targer Marker during Overdrive, it beats the shit out of stuff.

Usu gives the master everything it will need for meripo/xp functions so thats already covered, I dont want more meripo ehancing crap through af2/catII...at all. I don't want Asuran Fists, I don't want random traits like "Sainti Mastery" or whatever the hell, I don't want stuff that basically screams "Wow, I should have just leveled MNK".

Some tier IV nukes and tier II enfeebles...yes
Melee and ranged skill on par with an A weapon...yes
AF2 that gives boosts to the unique nature of the job, not more meleeing crap or Usu -1 (P set already covers this).
Some way to bridge the mid level gap of attack/accuracy/haste when the Attuner and Target Marker don't function (I+II doesnt cut it)...yes

And as far as balance goes, you can't expect every job to have an equal place in every event. "I want a job that can face tank while I parse 35%, heal other members and at the same time is buffing the pt with a pet that looks cool, and oh yeah it should be able to solo VTs because sometimes I just hate group xp". And honestly, getting a job to 75 now is a joke, if you want to contribute equally in everything level a job set and rotate.

Edit : There already is an MP Chakra, they gave it to Puppets with the Economizer. Pet TP->master MP makes a lot more sense.

-Vyzrael (Asura)

[Tajin]

Where did I say that? You said: "SMN is useful, you can use Rages and Wards now!"

Where did i say that? i was caught off guard and wanted to give the argument a rest. (not very smooth doing it)

[Spira]

well its a good thing at least now that we know when the update is coming instead of being kept in the dark.

i don't know about others, but personally feel that there are so many more important issues to care about before tackling minigames such as chocobos and such. Im most glad that theres mission updates this time. There had better be a whole lot of new missions and BCs with a challenge.

They didnt really mention new areas but i hope there will be new areas along with the new monsters, preferably tied in with the missions. I really think this expansion lacks the focus that CoP had, for everything other than the whole Besieged thing.

As for NMs.. i don't know what SE is thinking.. but I doubt players are ever satisfied. We complain when hnms are too easy like Cerberus.. and too hard (well too broken rather) like AV.

I also think that they should be prioritizing the job adjustments, because many things are just too inbalanced. They obviously can't be equal, but its obvious that certain things are inbalanced.

[BRP]

Btw, there is a simple way to point out which jobs need work and which jobs don't. It's all about how much they rely on the subjob.

WAR, NIN, and MNK are just stuffed with abilities and damage options, their subjobs are just icing on the cake is what usually what makes them over the top in strength. DRG, DRK, and SAM seem to rely on Berserk or Sneak Attack way too much. SMN is their sub job 80% of the time. THF is somewhere in between.

Adding a lot of job abilities/traits(non-Merit) to all jobs would be very helpful. They sort of did this with SAM. Now if they gave them something like "50 TP Bonus" trait at level 70 that didn't stack with Hagun(allowing them more variety with weapons for a small sacrifice) and maybe made making that Zanshin thing kick some more ass, like making it 100% hit. Samurai would be a completed job in my opinion.

[Tajin]

The AF storyline makes it apparent, and playing the job itself makes it apparent, that both master and pet are vital to whatever role you are trying to fill.

You act as if the master doesnt do anything if the puppet is the focus on HNMs, you're directing maneuver traffic and keeping it alive. Punching crap is just one function of the master (description of the job originally even said something like "h2h to fall back on" or whatever), and its a secondary function at best.

Autos needed A base skill from the start, not the bullshit B- with +10 from merits on two out of three (repair is a lot more valuable to merit so its pretty much +10 to only one, but thats a different discussion). After testing stuff with virtually every attachment the ONLY reason the master does more in meripo/xp is a simple matter of raw acc/attk/haste for T-VT mobs and the lack of a strong bonus from Attuner/Target Marker. If you could attack cap the puppet, like so many melees are in meripo nowadays, its attacks and WS would be comparable.

On anything IT+ the puppet will hit harder than anyone else in the party given the right attachments/maneuvers, the only issue left in this case is haste. This can be eliminated by a Turbo Charger + Overdrive, but 60s out of every 2 hours = pfft. Watch a VE puppet loaded with FM TM WM + Attuner/Turbo Charger/Targer Marker during Overdrive, it beats the shit out of stuff.

Usu gives the master everything it will need for meripo/xp functions so thats already covered, I dont want more meripo ehancing crap through af2/catII...at all. I don't want Asuran Fists, I don't want random traits like "Sainti Mastery" or whatever the hell, I don't want stuff that basically screams "Wow, I should have just leveled MNK".

Some tier IV nukes and tier II enfeebles...yes
Melee and ranged skill on par with an A weapon...yes
AF2 that gives boosts to the unique nature of the job, not more meleeing crap or Usu -1 (P set already covers this).
Some way to bridge the mid level gap of attack/accuracy/haste when the Attuner and Target Marker don't function (I+II doesnt cut it)...yes

And as far as balance goes, you can't expect every job to have an equal place in every event. "I want a job that can face tank while I parse 35%, heal other members and at the same time is buffing the pt with a pet that looks cool, and oh yeah it should be able to solo VTs because sometimes I just hate group xp". And honestly, getting a job to 75 now is a joke, if you want to contribute equally in everything level a job set and rotate.

Edit : There already is an MP Chakra, they gave it to Puppets with the Economizer. Pet TP->master MP makes a lot more sense.

-Vyzrael (Asura)

QFT

[BRP]

As I'm leveling PUP as my second job to 75, I can say that I really want B- or B+ in H2H skill. Not A+, not this "BUT YOU GOTZ TO ADD PUPPET AND MASTER DAMAGE THEN YOU OUTDD WARS" crap... I just want to be equal or better than a WHM at DDing while my automaton does most of my damage. Something in the middle which sounds like a PUP to me. Their merits should be Puppet focused yeah, but if you could get Martial Art traits I wouldn't complain.

And for the love of god, why Hope Staff? Its not like they could have pulled that Knuckles excuse.