Religion.

[sephir]

I don't like religious debates. To me, if somebody believes in God or believes the word of the bible, then that is a personality trait of theirs. I consider it to be a negative personality trait, akin to being being racist or sexist; it is not something desirable in another human being. And as such I have a very low tolerance for religious zealots and do not like associating with them.

I could not agree more Wafik.

[SpecialDude]

Is it bad my wet dream is to have a debate with a religious freak, like the ones I saw in the link I posted? God, that would be awesome.

No, because they pummel you with bullshit, and even if you know wtf you're talking about they ignore you and without even having a knowledgable reason continue to tell you "God exists because the Bible says so."

Or maybe that was just people from where I was from, who think God sent down the Bible already written.

I have to disagree here

I was once stopped on my way home by 2 men in suits and bible in hand who tried to tell me about god and convert me (I am Athiest btw). You know how people usualy just make an excuse like I am in a hurry and just go. Well, I decided to amuse myself and had like 20 min conversation with them about god vs. science. By the end of 20 minutes, they were the ones who said they had to go

I've debated with my old preacher, and he's probably the most knowledgable religious person I know aside from my grandpa. The list stops there of knowledgable religious people in the South.

[Enkidu]

I'm not a Theist, but god I hate Atheists with a passion. So ignorant, so unscientific, and yet at the same time they think they're pragmatic and logical. At least the Theist will admit (in most cases) that they just rely on faith for their beliefs.

Agnosticism is true science, it's the only system of thought dealing with the god question that can consider itself logical. Seriously why do people want to claim so badly to being an "Atheist"? Surely if you have any common sense you'd realize that in this you are making a claim that it is not possible for a god to exist, which is just illogical. Save your brain cells, admit to being an Agnostic.

[Denchi]

I'm a liberal christian majoring in Philosophy.

The more I learn about philosophy, they more I learn that humans are fucked up, and the more I think humans are in dire need of something more than just ourselves. I feel that seeking knowledge ends up in seeking God.

That being said, religious debates never turn out well. I understand why people hate religion and believe in science, and I know why I believe in God. But in debates like these no one is going to change their minds.

[Damen]

Science has been able to explain the origins of our universe quite well, and our understanding of many phenomena in science is expanding. Given time I'm quite positive that where we came from will be fully explained, and it won't have a damn thing to do with some sort of all powerful god.

And if someone asks, where did everything come from... which is a question that is not yet understood (the big bang is well understood in terms of what happened, but where the matter for the big bang came from is not understood)...

In my opinion this is the wrong question to ask. It doesn't matter where we came from, whether it was from creationism (created by God) or if it was millions of years of evolution that evolved from the Big Bang. I think the fundamental question isn't how did we come into exsistance, but the question is why do we even exist at all?

[theo]

I still think that there are plenty of ignorant assholes on both sides. That said, there are plenty of good people on both sides as well...

I consider myself a Christian, while I know many more zealous Christians would probably tell me I was going to hell. I think I fall into something BRP mentioned on the first page, about stopping and thinking critically about your religion rather than just accepting everything your pastor or bible tells you.

Its interesting for me, because I have two close friends on opposite ends of the spectrum. One is like me, he is very smart and questions his religion often enough to make sure he is doing the right thing. The other is extremely conservative, follows every last word of the Bible to the T. He spend a year at this school, its like a pre-college thing thats basically a jesus camp where they feed you all sorts of propaganda.

I try not to be too hard on him because he's a very nice guy and I know he means well, but its true that we disagree on a ton of things.

I guess my roundabout point is that you can't clump all Christians into one category.

Oh, and whoever mentioned the argument about believing in god "just in case," wow, thats retarded lol.

[BRP]

In a debate against a fanatical Christian, I would only bring up science in the background. Of course you can't corner religion with science, but asking simply what makes their brainwasher different from Jihad?

[Ushallbeasgods]

Religion... much like society and government is just a form of control. I'm not saying control is a bad thing but the primary function it serves is to control the masses to act in a certain way.

[Stilgar]

I'm not a Theist, but god I hate Atheists with a passion. So ignorant, so unscientific, and yet at the same time they think they're pragmatic and logical. At least the Theist will admit (in most cases) that they just rely on faith for their beliefs.

Agnosticism is true science, it's the only system of thought dealing with the god question that can consider itself logical. Seriously why do people want to claim so badly to being an "Atheist"? Surely if you have any common sense you'd realize that in this you are making a claim that it is not possible for a god to exist, which is just illogical. Save your brain cells, admit to being an Agnostic.

It's just semantics. Everyone knows what an atheist is, probably only like 5% of the general population could tell you what an agnostic is. I'm surprised you didn't see the logic.

[theo]

In a debate against a fanatical Christian, I would only bring up science in the background. Of course you can't corner religion with science, but asking simply what makes their brainwasher different from Jihad?

I guess when you get down to it the important difference, to me at least, is that my 'brainwashed' Christian friend isn't taking his beliefs to malicious violence.

In cases where Christians do resort to malicious violence, such as in cases of bombing abortion clinics, then really as far as I'm concerned there isn't any difference at all between them and Jihad.

This is of course all under the assumption that you're referring to radical Jihads, not your average sensible follower of Islam.

[Altanass]

i dont like these religious debates at all

i remember at school, religious debating was something i tried to take a day off to avoid >.> the aethiest kids make you feel stupid for practicing religion, people of other faiths go on and on trying to find fault and convert you, it all causes too much segregation and bullying a lot of which i experienced first hand.

but at the end of the day, i was only religious because thats what my parents were doing and you had no choice in the matter. the religious people themselves were often corrupt, for example they were all child molesterers and when others go off for weekend trips with church groupies would usually turn out into wild sex orgies >.>. Funny how the only religious kids i knew at school just so happened to be the only kids who had been molested. Others just used religion to "get" something or to show off in front of others.

in any event, only like 1% of the top priests or scholars from any religious group can discuss religion, everyone else is just a member of the mob so to speak, ask someone when is the last time they read the bible and they will most likely say at sunday school when they were a kid, same for these mad terrorist nut cases they may never have read their books, everything is all political.

[Chips]

Around the 6 minute mark, there's a kid with an awesome mullet.

Oh, and I love how the fat chick speaking in front of the kids called some people "fat and lazy."

[Roranora]

I'm not a Theist, but god I hate Atheists with a passion. So ignorant, so unscientific, and yet at the same time they think they're pragmatic and logical. At least the Theist will admit (in most cases) that they just rely on faith for their beliefs.

Agnosticism is true science, it's the only system of thought dealing with the god question that can consider itself logical. Seriously why do people want to claim so badly to being an "Atheist"? Surely if you have any common sense you'd realize that in this you are making a claim that it is not possible for a god to exist, which is just illogical. Save your brain cells, admit to being an Agnostic.

I planned on trying to avoid diving too deep into this thread, because I really don't feel a need to.. "debate" religion, so to speak. However, I certainly enjoy hearing various respective beliefs, if for nothing more than pondering a bit at any of them. In the previous thread, I chose to chime in because perhaps a poor characteristic, or characteristics, was/were being applied to athiests. Here, I think there might be a slight.. variation in perception of the term.

I mentioned earlier that uncertainty is perfectly fine, and when we reach the most extremely difficult areas/questions for current science, I think everyone will at some point reach that. This uncertainty, or being an agnostic, as you seem to want that specific label so much, is easily something to which I can relate. Conversely, being an atheist seems to me to be denying only at present what is the general concept of a god. If you think I can somehow explain the formation of the universe, and insist that nowhere in it, is anything "god-like" (from what the definition of "god-like" may be at this point where humans may be able to understand it further) behind it, you're mistaken. If that makes me an agnostic in Enkidu's books, then have at it. But what the current concept of a god is, I feel, is disgusting, for lack of better adjectives. A single, or several, omnipotent beings living an infinite life with infinite control, only to reward specific people who followed some set of guidelines with eternal nirvana.. is what I refuse to believe. Being agnostic, to me.. is still open to any possibility at all, even the latter one.. and that is something I definitely am not. I feel such a promise is just meant to take away the fear of your own demise, and that's not what I want to do.

Now, my grandparents, are extremely religious people.. and sadly, they're getting to that age where they're getting their wills in order, etc., and they go to church several times a week. They are people who enjoy this comfort and it helps them enjoy their lives; I'm completely grateful for that.. at least for them. I would want nothing more than those around me to enjoy their lives in whatever fits best for them. I'm not going to force potential disturbing thoughts onto them, or do anything more than perhaps mention what does it for me.

I in no way want to insult a given person for having XYZ belief, which is why I thought atheists being labeled ignorant, and potentially the least scientific, was rather narrow-minded. I suppose I am taking one leap and saying I don't think it will discover heaven and/or hell, which certainly doesn't seem unscientific to me.

[Sera]

I enjoyed the part where the fat blonde called children "Useful for Christianity." That's when I decided watching any more would be a waste of a perfectly good breakfast sandwich.

[Enkidu]

I mentioned earlier that uncertainty is perfectly fine, and when we reach the most extremely difficult areas/questions for current science, I think everyone will at some point reach that. This uncertainty, or being an agnostic, as you seem to want that specific label so much, is easily something to which I can relate. Nonetheless, with the other label, being an athiest, seems to me to be denying only at present what is the general concept of a god. If you think I can somehow explain the formation of the universe, and insist that nowhere in it, is anything "god-like" (from what the definition of "god-like" may be at this point where humans may be able to understand it further) behind it, you're mistaken. If that makes me an agnostic in Enkidu's books, then have at it. But what the current concept of a god is, I feel, is disgusting, for lack of better adjectives. A single, or several, omnipotent beings living an infinite life with infinite control, only to reward specific people who followed some set of guidelines with eternal nirvana.. is what I refuse to believe. Being agnostic, to me.. is still open to any possibility at all, even the latter one.. and that is something I definately am not. I feel such a promise is just meant to take away the fear of your own demise, and that's not what I want to do.

You cannot disprove the existence of the Christian deity, just as you cannot disprove the existence of many "invisible hand" gods/goddesses. However, saying a god does not exist is the atheist position, the term literally means "godless".

Of course you may define the word any way you like, however it's illogical and quite honestly, it's stupid. It's liken to the scenario of someone having a heart attack in a movie theater and a man calling out "is there a doctor in the house?!" and another man jumps up and says "I'm a doctor!". The man says, "we need help down here, this man is having a heart attack" and the doctor says "Oh I guess I should mention I'm a doctor of philosophy, sorry". As you can define doctor in many ways, when someone asks a question you know is specific, it's best to give the right answer.

When a religious person thinks of an Atheist, the last thing they think is "well (s)he might think it's possible for a god (hopefully my god) to exist". The first thing they think is "this person believes there is no god", which already puts the two at odds. Personally I would say "I believe in the possibility of a god, yet I have not seen evidence either for or against such beliefs", is that so hard?

Why do you think science and religion struggle so much to get along? Because the ideas differ? Not really. It's because over the last 50 or so years science has been vilified as Atheistic because of people who misuse the word for selfish and stupid reasons. They want to upset others and it works, it also causes problems for REAL scientists and other educated people who would wish for their children to be educated in scientific areas. The religious, who make up most of the population, are the ones who guide politics, not the poor smuck who wants to be labeled an Atheist because Agnostic isn't a strong enough word. If we turned the public to realize that science is Agnostic and Atheism is illogical and has nothing to do with science - we'd all be better off in the long run.

[Mysterio]

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5...odohgodkl8.png

[Ushallbeasgods]

Both sides have their fair share of idiots... imo just keep believing whatever the hell you want I just ask one thing. Don't shove it down my throat or try to convert me.

[Tricen]

Religion is absolutely disgusting. Not saying believing in god is bad or anything, just that religion is the leprosy of this planet. Believe what you want, but don't say I am wrong with what I believe.

[Miji]

I like to believe in religion because the thought of no afterlife scares me. As selfish as it sounds, I don't want to simply fade away into nothingness after I die.

I used to believe in god some time ago, and when someone close to me died, I realized this is why I believed in it. When someone you love dies, just about the only consolation at the time is that there was something better waiting for them. That aside, I still find it difficult to believe in god, but I'm not totally closed off to the idea that something of the sort exists.

[Tricen]

Atheists refuse to believe in a god, which is kind of assholeish. Agnostics basically say "Prove it bitches". I am #2