Random Question Thread

[Chupunpupun]

Woohoo! 1/5 on Destroyers so far on Double Dragonian...I had heard it was supposed to be hard but nobody even died. We're just TP burning it.

Its because people are idiots and wont try anything unless someone else does it first. DD is so easy, did it with PLD, WAR, WAR, DRG, WHM, RDM. Its not hard, its only hard if you do what a lot of people suggest and try to kill them at the same time, which is based on the wrong assumption that one becomes stronger after the other dies.

I trio'd Double Dragonian with NIN NIN RDM/WHM. One NIN kite the BRD wyvern and the NIN+RDM/WHM kill the WAR wyvern. We went 2/3 because the NIN soloing the WAR wyvern got double attack one too many times but it was @10% when that happened.

[Bakthi]

Trying to tank on Ninja with a MNK/WAR and DRK/SAM going nuts makes me cry

It's even more awesome when the MNK/WAR has capped enmity merits. Oh, sure, it's probably not a huge difference, but it's like the Stubbed Toe Cherry on top of the Waterboarding Sundae.

[skurlover]

Ring, take a breath....

[Darkyrm]

Double Dragonian is incredibly easy if you aren't stupid.

A lot of the write ups on the BC are incorrect. The dragons become stronger after they two hour, NOT after the other one dies. Kill the WAR first, then kite and kill the BRD.

Ive done quite a bit DD and I agree with the whole "one gets stronger when the other dies" WAR hits like a truck when BRD is dead even before 2hs.

But the BC its incredible easy so it really does not mind, we usually go with a blm sleep brd, engage War skillchain MB basically kills him, then BRD dies fast because its still very weak after killing War.

[Delekii]

Right, thats teh excuse I have been hearing for literally years now. You can hit those Chi's if you are DD tanking or not, because you don't use Evasion and Enmity on WS's... the rest of the time you are doing subpar damage and its not helping you keep hate, while you get hit more and lose shadows more with Evasion and Enmity which means you are not keeping hate.

I call BS on not keeping hate with Evasion and Enmity gear. Comparatively, it's just not true. Everyone thinks they are better than they are, in my experience with other people tanking those that focused on Evasion and Enmity KEPT HATE, those that tried to DD were basically first vokes. That is even more important in todays game with the 2-hander improvements. A half-decent DD will take hate off of and E/E NIN less often and for shorter times than a DD NIN.

Perhaps that is your experience, but speaking from my own, current experience, I have the best evasion gear possible at the moment (lvl60), as well as emnity, and a GAxe war can take hate from me in seconds in either setup - depends on target more than anything else. On higher level mobs where they don't do quite as much damage I can hold hate easily, but on VT-low IT mobs the damage they do on a hit by hit basis is just so high that they will almost always get hate when they WS, if not beforehand.

Don't get me wrong, I _HAVE_ and evasion set and it gets a lot of use (I switch to it whenever shadows are running low and I won't make it to the next cast, or other such situations, but usually when I am ok on shadows I just wear DD to increase damage as much as possible.

I dont doubt that a WAR can take hate off of you, I am saying it happens less often and for shorter times if you are going E/E instead of DD. Its comparatively better.

Think about it not at each individual moment but for the duration of the fight. Losing shadows decreases enmity, getting hit decreases enmity, your TP build damage doesn't make a whole lot of difference. So with a Haub you have basically the same accuracy as SH, a marginal increase in damage and -30 evasion compared to a SH. You are almost always going to lose a shadow on each attack, and you are going to get hit more often because you will be waiting on recasts. And you probably wont have as much enmity.

If you want to increase your damage, go with Dorado Sushi so you hit a lot and have a good WS set-up. There is so little damage difference between an E/E set up and a DD set up during the TP phase at that level to make it almost irrelevant. Even at end-game, the best burn NIN's don't worry about damage per swing, they just worry about TPing fast and strong WS's. But thats a discussion for a different day.

Here is the point, I believe and this is in my experience as a NIN and as a DD that below about 70 you are not going to do enough TP phase damage to increase your hate compared to the amount of hate you lose from always losing shadows and getting hit. WS phase is irrelevant because both a E/E and DD can do the same WS.

Essentially, its a simple formula. If enmity gained from damage done during the TP phase is greater than enmity lost due to shadows lost and damage taken then go DD, if not, then go E/E. I just don't believe a NIN can get to the point of damage done being greater until at least Dual Wield IV (65) and access to better DD gear (in this case haste gear) until 70+.

In essence we are saying the same thing. At 59 I'm still wearing High Breath Mantle and Eris+1, and assuming a Bard I TP in chainmail rather than SH+1 or Haub. However, I don't wear Spirit Torque or Survival Belt to TP in, I don't wear Ninja Hakama or Kyahan, so on so fourth. I still evade decently with that setup, especially on mobs that I can debuff or that the RDM will debuff.

It is a simple formula, but for my point in leveling, you have the wrong formula. At the moment the formula is:
If DD Weaponskill > 700 damage AND DD DoT > Mine, whether or not I wear every enmity piece in the game will not change the fact that a. the mob will be 3 quaters dead when it turns and b. the mob WILL turn whether I am in DD or Evasion gear, so I might as well kill the mob faster.

[Falaras]

Leveling ninja I started DD at 55, have never had any problem keeping hate or having shadows up. I usually carry eva gear for if they fuck my shadows up even at 75. Now I'm lvling Drk, I always come Drk/nin, and majority of the PTs I join have Ninjas. I've PTed with 1 Ninja that could actually keep hate off me swinging and that was some DD Ninja in Delekiis LS. Eva nin just doesn't cut it especially after the 2 hander update, if you can't keep shadows up with -eva quit Nin, if you can your going to keep hate and people will actually like to PT with you.
Also I don't recomend starting DD nin till 60 though, 55 is really cutting it.

[Zamarok]

I gots a question!

for BST/WAR only!! Juggy/shield or Maneater/shield?? I sold Juggy cause needed cash, but could buy back if its worth it...
does the extra 12 attack on juggy make up for the 5 accuracy and 3 weapon damage on maneater? or is juggy only for Maneater/Juggy???

thanks

[safer]

random question!

can i upgrade both relic and af1 items @ sagheera in the same week? or can i only upgrade 1 thing per week?

i have both rdm af1 upgrade items and whm relic boots upgrade .. i want both! D;

[Suiram]

BLM BLM RDM works for Double Draconian and or Copycat?

The problem with copycat is that one person is always charmed. So if you bring 3 people you will only have 2 able players at all times. Aside from that it is easily manaburnable though, when I was in a KS30 merc group a couple years ago we used to run this for MNKs. We'd always have them come on a job with a less painful 2H like THF (most usually had that at 37) or PLD or what have you. He seems to charm starting with the person who traded the orb and proceeding in the order that people appear on party search (Menu > Party > Member List, brings up the search screen but isn't alphabetical, that's the order) but I'm not 100% on that part.

Double Dragonian BLM BLM RDM should work easy. When I needed Dissector and a friend needed Destroyers, we duoed that BLMx2 (got my weapon on his orb and his on my orb, 2/2 :D). We screwed up on the second orb and had to use 2H to win but other than that it was fine.

[MarkM.]

random question!

can i upgrade both relic and af1 items @ sagheera in the same week? or can i only upgrade 1 thing per week?

i have both rdm af1 upgrade items and whm relic boots upgrade .. i want both! D;

Pretty sure a ls mate tried this the other day and could not. Just pick which one you want first and then wait til the next week.

[Charismatic]

Boost.

All hits in a WS or just the first?

[rithridan]

BLM BLM RDM works for Double Draconian and or Copycat?

It does for DD, just keep in mind that the WAR can oneshot if it manages to Body Slam you. I almost lost with that exact setup when one of the 2 BLM died thanks to Body Slam. The problem you will have then is that you can only reliably sleep the dragons once iirc. Also they build resistance to Bind/Gravity really fast which made killing the second dragon that much harder.

[Eldelphia]

random question!

can i upgrade both relic and af1 items @ sagheera in the same week? or can i only upgrade 1 thing per week?

i have both rdm af1 upgrade items and whm relic boots upgrade .. i want both! D;

I know you can't upgrade two pieces of AF in the same week. Obviously it's not the same as AF and Relic +1's but I'd assume that she'll make you wait.

[MarkM.]

I looked to see if I could find a post about this and since I'm not good with forums, I either did not do it right or just flat out missed it. Has there ever been any info on any benefit of trading KS/BS orbs back to the npc after using them for their respective NM. I tried to trade him an empty Monarch Orb but he would not take it, but he will take back the ones you get from him. Thanks!

[Tajin]

Indeed he will only accept orbs that you get from him. There is no proof that giving him back the orb will give you anything.

Personally I have traded him back like 4 differents, only to be laughed by the NPC -_-

[Spekkio]

what happens if you trade the orb back? does he give you seals back? i never realized that you could do that.

[Tajin]

No, he just laughs at you, no seals back, no key item, nothing.

[SephYuyX]

Jeuno fame.

[CGB]

Couple of PLD gear questions...

Recently i've been using my PLD a lot more often, mostly in Dynamis (kiting statues, tanking MNKs) and for stuff like KB, and every so often a Jailer or two (again kiting).

Anyway... my back pieces and earrings are seriously gimp... At the moment all I have is Knightly Mantle and High Breath Mantle, and Ethereal earring and Buckler earring. Is it worth trying to get a Resentment Cape or should I just save up for a Cerberus Mantle? Or is Gigant Mantle better than both of those? I already have around 31-36 +enmity, so is HP > Enmity around this point?

And for earrings, what should I replace the Buckler earring with when kiting? Hades(+1)? Intruder Earring? >.> Pigeon Earring +1 maybe?

thanks in advance!

[Woozie]

Couple of PLD gear questions...

Recently i've been using my PLD a lot more often, mostly in Dynamis (kiting statues, tanking MNKs) and for stuff like KB, and every so often a Jailer or two (again kiting).

Anyway... my back pieces and earrings are seriously gimp... At the moment all I have is Knightly Mantle and High Breath Mantle, and Ethereal earring and Buckler earring. Is it worth trying to get a Resentment Cape or should I just save up for a Cerberus Mantle? Or is Gigant Mantle better than both of those? I already have around 31-36 +enmity, so is HP > Enmity around this point?

And for earrings, what should I replace the Buckler earring with when kiting? Hades(+1)? Intruder Earring? >.> Pigeon Earring +1 maybe?

thanks in advance!

Don't even think about wearing a gigant mantle. Use Cerberus, and macro in Boxers when your shadows drop. HB mantle is a good piece, other than the fact that you can't macro it off. Cerberus mantle is also a fire-resist piece for Tiamat.

Get resentment cape for Citadel Buster.

For earrings, is it possible for you to get an ethereal, or are you sticking with a different earring for a different job? I'd suggest picking at least two of the following three: Ethereal, Hades +1, Loquacious.

Loquacious would be mainly for /nin, obviously. Hades and ethereal are good in pretty much any situation. You could always macro in buckler when shadows drop or when you're /war in dynamis if you already have the earring.