Random Question Thread

[Amele]

1) alot of people don't look at it that closely.
2) it's still 3% improvement in terms of attack speed which depending on the weapon could be quite significant (and could be awesome dot improvement depending on your current net delay - if you're at 70% speedup overall, you're looking not at a 3% dot improvement but a massive 10% dot improvement in one slot)
3) I'm not sure it's actually worse for an x/sam - it would be highly dependent on the specific weapon delay, which unlike gkts tends to vary wildly by weapon choice.

in terms of the most common +7 store TP gear; you'd wear the gear anyway (rajas, brutal earring, chiv chain) in many situations, unless you happened to have your Sea Torque. so if someone is focusing just on attack speed; they're not going to care if it messes up the 'incidental' store tp+7.

[Spekkio]

i thought it was determined that the delay reduction was applied multiplicatively, rather than additively to the delay value, making it largely ineffective in haste builds for zerg. have i been operating under a very flawed and major misconception? i'm somewhat doubting it, though, or i'd see it factored heavily into a rune chopper or apoc drk's math.

[Amele]

i thought it was determined that the delay reduction was applied multiplicatively, rather than additively to the delay value, making it largely ineffective in haste builds for zerg. have i been operating under a very flawed and major misconception? i'm somewhat doubting it, though, or i'd see it factored heavily into a rune chopper or apoc drk's math.

yes, good catch.

3% of 30% is a 3% improvement in dot. (29.991) not a 10% improvement. going quickly to get the post up and I made a logic mistake.

if it was haste, what I stated would be right.

[ringthree]

Cerb's not worth the price it's charged, but is a really good piece of gear.

I would almost agree with this. I can admit there are times when the Cerberus Mantle is decent, but the price of it and the value that some people assign to it are far out of line with its capabilities. I think part of my problem is that I am thinking about it from a NIN perspective, where it really is farther behind everything else especially the HB. I can see how it is useful for PLD/NIN and how swapping would be more important for a PLD/NIN than a NIN. Seeing NINs wear a Cerberus mantle over a HB mantle is what really sends me into a tizzy.

The more I read your posts the more convinced I am that you are at least functionally retarded.

Cerberus mantle / +1 is the best all around tank back piece in the game, as ryko said you can switch to shield / hp when you need, but honestly, if you're maining anything other than cerberus mantle on PLD or NIN as main tank, you should probably level another job.

Jesus fuck, HB mantle for NIN? If you're NIN tanking anything besides a wyrm and you're not DD tanking it, fuck, I just don't know anymore with you people.

LOL @ "Best all around tank back piece in the game" reminds me of "Best hate in the mother fucking game!"

+3 Enmity vs. +5 Enmity +38HP for NIN tanking. Hmmm... Guess I am just not cool enough for BG because I don't DD tank everything!

If you want to make an argument for Cerberus Mantle go ahead (and here is a hint, you may think you have, but you failed pretty miserably), if you just want to be a prick there are about 10 other areas of BG to do that.

[ringthree]

I got a random question for ya... why do people wear store TP gear, and a Sword Strap?

War/Nin, 504 Great Axe, no Store Tp, 102% Tp in 8 hits
War/Nin, 504 Great Axe, no Store Tp, Sword Strap, 108% (or thereabouts) in 8 hits

K, so no store TP you're actually getting to WS faster (since 8 489 hits takes less time)... cool, does nothing during WS (hence why I would rather use Pole, Claymore, Mythril +1) but hey.

War/Nin, 504 GAXE, +7 Store Tp, 100+ in 7 Hits (can't remember exact TP%, but its 7 hits)
War/Nin, 504 GAXE, +7 Store Tp, Sword Strap, 98% Tp in 7 Hits.

*crunches some numbers*

3902 Delay, versus 3528 Delay between WSes, Congratulations! You've just really hindered your TP gain for a marginal improvement in DoT!

It just gets worse for War/Sam, Sam/Anything, Drg, or anything but Drk/Sam, which maintains a yummy 6 hit build with a 528 Scythe and Sword Strap.

So I ask again, why? Is it REALLY worth a 3% DoT improvement to add another entire round between WSes for a 2 Handed weapon, for whom WS damage is usually a huge factor?

Why is this so hard to grasp?

The easy answer for me is that I feel icky giving up haste for Store TP on my SAM when I can't get to a 6-hit build. (but my SAM isn't done yet so it doesn't really matter, LOL). In essence until I can get to a 6-hit situation on my SAM without giving up all my Haste gear then I will go with Sword Strap, after that time I will switch over to Claymore. Since you really need at least some Store TP merits to get to a 6-hit set up it is justifiable to use the Sword Strap until you have them.

Does that make sense? (The real answer is that I should get off my ass, merit more and stop dumping my merits into MNK).

[Max™]

If Sword Strap was 3% Haste it would be "Why the hell would anyone gimp it up with a DA or Crit grip?"

For situations where it doesn't hurt your Tp > 100 Time, it's fine and all, but that is neglecting a large portion of a 2 handers damage, which is WS damage, which this does nothing for (except when it adds a hit, then it hurts WS damage over time) Claymore is super awesome for Raging Rush spam, since it affects the WS and DoT, for most jobs I would fulltime Pole Strap, especially for things like Sam/Nin to get 7-9% DA.

Pole gives a definite benefit for everything a melee does, generally a sizeable one unless you're talking about a full Are's wearing, 5 DA merit, Brutal Earring, Fighter's Roll'D Warrior.

Even the Axe, Platinum, and Mythril (+1 >.>) give an overall boost to everything you do, where Sword makes you swing marginally quicker, it makes you WS less often in most situations, which is bad enough as it is.


This rant though, this was inspired by combining Store TP (giving the benefits of higher delay weapon TP gain without the longer delay) with Sword Strap (which for several situations nearly exactly negates the Store TP which you would be wearing anyways) which is like giving someone $50 and then asking for a $50 loan.

So the question was an honest one besides the rant, is the DoT gain really so significant to be worth reduced WS frequency, and more so to cancel out Store Tp gear?

[Amele]

I got a random question for ya... why do people wear store TP gear, and a Sword Strap?

War/Nin, 504 Great Axe, no Store Tp, 102% Tp in 8 hits
War/Nin, 504 Great Axe, no Store Tp, Sword Strap, 108% (or thereabouts) in 8 hits

K, so no store TP you're actually getting to WS faster (since 8 489 hits takes less time)... cool, does nothing during WS (hence why I would rather use Pole, Claymore, Mythril +1) but hey.

War/Nin, 504 GAXE, +7 Store Tp, 100+ in 7 Hits (can't remember exact TP%, but its 7 hits)
War/Nin, 504 GAXE, +7 Store Tp, Sword Strap, 98% Tp in 7 Hits.

*crunches some numbers*

3902 Delay, versus 3528 Delay between WSes, Congratulations! You've just really hindered your TP gain for a marginal improvement in DoT!

It just gets worse for War/Sam, Sam/Anything, Drg, or anything but Drk/Sam, which maintains a yummy 6 hit build with a 528 Scythe and Sword Strap.

So I ask again, why? Is it REALLY worth a 3% DoT improvement to add another entire round between WSes for a 2 Handed weapon, for whom WS damage is usually a huge factor?

Why is this so hard to grasp?

The easy answer for me is that I feel icky giving up haste for Store TP on my SAM when I can't get to a 6-hit build. (but my SAM isn't done yet so it doesn't really matter, LOL). In essence until I can get to a 6-hit situation on my SAM without giving up all my Haste gear then I will go with Sword Strap, after that time I will switch over to Claymore. Since you really need at least some Store TP merits to get to a 6-hit set up it is justifiable to use the Sword Strap until you have them.

Does that make sense? (The real answer is that I should get off my ass, merit more and stop dumping my merits into MNK).

you've found the one situation where I think sword strap makes the most sense, actually. (you have 7hits and maintain 7 hits assuming you use a rajas ring full time, sword strap or not).

pre 70+ though, a sam would lose a swing unless they increased their store TP (at 50 you get 25 store TP with rajas, enough for 7 hits. to maintain you'd need to get to 31 which would necessitate sacrificing legs slot to the JSE too). so I wouldn't recommend it to any sams not already 70+ and not planning to immediately dump saved merits into store TP.

[ringthree]

If Sword Strap was 3% Haste it would be "Why the hell would anyone gimp it up with a DA or Crit grip?"

For situations where it doesn't hurt your Tp > 100 Time, it's fine and all, but that is neglecting a large portion of a 2 handers damage, which is WS damage, which this does nothing for (except when it adds a hit, then it hurts WS damage over time) Claymore is super awesome for Raging Rush spam, since it affects the WS and DoT, for most jobs I would fulltime Pole Strap, especially for things like Sam/Nin to get 7-9% DA.

Pole gives a definite benefit for everything a melee does, generally a sizeable one unless you're talking about a full Are's wearing, 5 DA merit, Brutal Earring, Fighter's Roll'D Warrior.

Even the Axe, Platinum, and Mythril (+1 >.>) give an overall boost to everything you do, where Sword makes you swing marginally quicker, it makes you WS less often in most situations, which is bad enough as it is.


This rant though, this was inspired by combining Store TP (giving the benefits of higher delay weapon TP gain without the longer delay) with Sword Strap (which for several situations nearly exactly negates the Store TP which you would be wearing anyways) which is like giving someone $50 and then asking for a $50 loan.

So the question was an honest one besides the rant, is the DoT gain really so significant to be worth reduced WS frequency, and more so to cancel out Store Tp gear?

If you wanted to you could get to a 6 hit-build with Hachiman hands and feet and a Sword Strap, but without the Sword Strap you could get the same set up with just Hachiman feet. So in essence you are trading Dusk Gloves for Sword Strap, which is dumb because you get +5 Att from the Dusk Gloves, you get true Haste from the Dusk Gloves (and still comparatively more TP too) and you get to use the Sword Slot for something more useful.

So again there really isn't a reason to at least use Claymore Grip (Pole Strap is probably useless with Soboro depending on whether or not 3 actually does proc less, than 1) if you can get a 6 hit-build.

[Max™]

I guess something about Claymore just screams "GAXE WAR ONRY" since we're the only 2her that regularly uses a crit based WS, but yeah with Soboro spamming hits, the crits would add up nicely and help offset the lower damage.

I know I loved the heck out of having a Soboro with a Platinum grip in the party with me.

The Greater Colibri readies Feather Tickle.
The Greater Colibri is Stunned.
/t samurai <Thank you.>

Pole might hurt Soboro Triple procs, but it can kick in during WS which I thought Soboro couldn't, and it hurts single procs so it's pretty up in the air.

I'd be torn between Axe, Plat +1, Claymore, and Pole Strap on Sam honestly, but I'd probably use an Ushi/Hagun because I love the big butcher knife lookin things.

[Siralin]

Currently using Rajas/H.Sune-ate/Chiv chain + merits to obtain a 6hit build on SAM. I just recently obtained Sea and I am looking into getting a few gorgets. Until I have the coins necessary to buy Brutal, would it be better of me to swap chiv ? gorget + minuet earring ? lolattila's earring to keep +11 store tp in gear or should I just wait until I have Brutal to start using gorgets? (I don't have gorgets just yet but I believe I will get at least one before I get brutal, though I'm currently putting my time into making money to get coins for it as fast as possible, <3 Brutal)

[Max™]

Go from Dusk Hands/Hachi Feet/Chiv/Rajas to Hachi Hands/Fumas/Torque/Rajas?

Also: lol@this being the second time I've seen "My LS (is just about to start/has just started) doing Sea, and I'm going to get a Justice Torque soon." like it was easy to get >.<.

[Amele]

it's not like it's particularly harder to get than (say) b.haidate.

it's just a matter of getting in line and waiting for your turn.

[ringthree]

Pole might hurt Soboro Triple procs, but it can kick in during WS which I thought Soboro couldn't, and it hurts single procs so it's pretty up in the air.

Just wanted to be clear on this, assuming that the number of procs for 1 and 3 are equal (which even from the tests that I don't trust seem to point to) then the Pole Strap would do nothing except for the 2% increase of double attack on WS. To me that is not equal to a constant 3% crit hit rate.

[Siralin]

Go from Dusk Hands/Hachi Feet/Chiv/Rajas to Hachi Hands/Fumas/Torque/Rajas?

Also: lol@this being the second time I've seen "My LS (is just about to start/has just started) doing Sea, and I'm going to get a Justice Torque soon." like it was easy to get >.<.

Edit was to take out a comma that bothered me but I originally was asking about gorgets (snow, flame) not justice torque. Also, I like being able to change from Dusk to pallas for WS and changing to h.kote wouldnt allow that (and the difference between h.kote + rutters and pallas + hachi sune-ate is substantial, especially if I get alkys anytime soon)

I just seems like the +.1 fTP bonus from gorget would make up for losing the bonuses from chiv and minuet earring, until i can get brutal.

[ringthree]

Currently using Rajas/H.Sune-ate/Chiv chain + merits to obtain a 6hit build on SAM. I just recently obtained Sea and I am looking into getting a few gorgets. Until I have the coins necessary to buy Brutal, would it be better of me to swap chiv ? gorget + minuet earring ? lolattila's earring to keep +11 store tp in gear or should I just wait until I have Brutal to start using gorgets? (I don't have gorgets just yet but I believe I will get at least one before I get brutal, though I'm currently putting my time into making money to get coins for it as fast as possible, <3 Brutal)

Until you get a Brutal Earring you could use H. Kote instead of H. Sune-ate and use Fuma Sune-ate for the Haste instead of Dusk Gloves. You would lose the 5 attack, but you could easily still maintain your 6 hit build. And you could use better hands during WS and just use Hachiman Feet which are just a slight step down from Rutters.

TP:
Raja
Chiv
Hachiman Kote

WS:
Raja
Torque
Hachiman Sune-ate

This would easily maintain your 6 hit set-up without giving up anymore haste than you have to already.

Ultimately the perfect set-up would be Usukane Feet, would would net you enough TP to not have to worry about anything more than Raja's and Chiv.

[Max™]

Ah, yeah, Gorget is a lot easier to get.

Jtorques don't drop as much as Haidates do, JoJ isn't as easy to pop as Byakko, nor is it as easy to kill, last I checked.

I've seen 4, maybe 5 Justice Torques, and even before the Ulli fix, Haidate were common enough that you kinda wondered when people didn't have them, much more so now.

You can kind of expect people to have Haidate by now, given the effort involved/the drop rate, you wouldn't expect someone to have a Justice Torque or declare them gimped without it.

[Siralin]

Currently using Rajas/H.Sune-ate/Chiv chain + merits to obtain a 6hit build on SAM. I just recently obtained Sea and I am looking into getting a few gorgets. Until I have the coins necessary to buy Brutal, would it be better of me to swap chiv ? gorget + minuet earring ? lolattila's earring to keep +11 store tp in gear or should I just wait until I have Brutal to start using gorgets? (I don't have gorgets just yet but I believe I will get at least one before I get brutal, though I'm currently putting my time into making money to get coins for it as fast as possible, <3 Brutal)

Until you get a Brutal Earring you could use H. Kote instead of H. Sune-ate and use Fuma Sune-ate for the Haste instead of Dusk Gloves. You would lose the 5 attack, but you could easily still maintain your 6 hit build. And you could use better hands during WS and just use Hachiman Feet which are just a slight step down from Rutters.

TP:
Raja
Chiv
Hachiman Kote

WS:
Raja
Torque
Hachiman Sune-ate

This would easily maintain your 6 hit set-up without giving up anymore haste than you have to already.

Again sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was refering to gorgets (snow,flame, etc) not torque. I see what you are getting at with that setup, but wouldn't it be easier just to use the earring for the time being (just in WS) to be able to use a gorget? I don't currently have Fuma's and while trying to make money for brutal I don't want to have to shell out too much more just to change around my setup.

[ringthree]

Currently using Rajas/H.Sune-ate/Chiv chain + merits to obtain a 6hit build on SAM. I just recently obtained Sea and I am looking into getting a few gorgets. Until I have the coins necessary to buy Brutal, would it be better of me to swap chiv ? gorget + minuet earring ? lolattila's earring to keep +11 store tp in gear or should I just wait until I have Brutal to start using gorgets? (I don't have gorgets just yet but I believe I will get at least one before I get brutal, though I'm currently putting my time into making money to get coins for it as fast as possible, <3 Brutal)

Until you get a Brutal Earring you could use H. Kote instead of H. Sune-ate and use Fuma Sune-ate for the Haste instead of Dusk Gloves. You would lose the 5 attack, but you could easily still maintain your 6 hit build. And you could use better hands during WS and just use Hachiman Feet which are just a slight step down from Rutters.

TP:
Raja
Chiv
Hachiman Kote

WS:
Raja
Torque
Hachiman Sune-ate

This would easily maintain your 6 hit set-up without giving up anymore haste than you have to already.

Again sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was refering to gorgets (snow,flame, etc) not torque. I see what you are getting at with that setup, but wouldn't it be easier just to use the earring for the time being (just in WS) to be able to use a gorget? I don't currently have Fuma's and while trying to make money for brutal I don't want to have to shell out too much more just to change around my setup.

Well, let me state my assumptions: 1. Maintain highest haste for a six-hit set up. 2. Maximize TP gain in TP build to not have to give up the best WS gear. Torque or Gorget is irrelevent if you use Hachiman Kote for TP build without a Brutal Earring. These assumptions were based on the fact you had Dusk Gloves and Fuma's, it breaks down if you only have Dusk. My suggestion is to get Fuma's.

[Siralin]

Thanks for the replies....was just hoping that the shit cheap earring would be acceptable for the time being since I use minuet in the slot otherwise and only need +1 storetp in WS. Might just not bother with trying to get a snow gorget for the time being; should have enough for brutal soon enough. Won't have to worry about anything then....that thing will be fused to my ear.....

[Beckwin]

LOL @ "Best all around tank back piece in the game" reminds me of "Best hate in the mother fucking game!"

+3 Enmity vs. +5 Enmity +38HP for NIN tanking. Hmmm... Guess I am just not cool enough for BG because I don't DD tank everything!

If you want to make an argument for Cerberus Mantle go ahead (and here is a hint, you may think you have, but you failed pretty miserably), if you just want to be a prick there are about 10 other areas of BG to do that.

HBM pros: +2 enmity, +38 HP

HBM cons: unable to swap in Boxer's/Shadow for ohshit macro. unable to swap in resist backpiece. unable to swap in magic reduction backpiece. pain in the ass to reapply on a longer fight, especially if it's kited. Weak as a DD piece.

I'm gonna go for the more convenient and versatile option, personally.