Random Question Thread

[ferigor]

Looked in search but I can't seem to find what I'm after. Friend was talking about getting some voyager sallets but we don't have SMNs. So I'm curious how the sac pull method works with..say rdm mnk thf. We have other jobs/people available as well so if you have another strategy so that would be fine. I have no experience with the NM before so I'm not really sure how the hate works after a sac pull.

With just 3 people I'd foresee a lot of death. What your best bet would probably be is pull, sleepga them all, kill 1 as quickly as possible and go back through the displacement and wait for the flies to deaggro (This takes forever). I would say that they probably have around 1600 life, so they don't drop very fast. It takes about 3 fully unresisted astral flows to put them down, if thats any indicator.

They usually cast slowga and some other garbage when they get in range, but sometimes they will spam aero II and this can take your tank down fast. My group was pld, whm, blm, smnX3, and it only happened to us once but our PLD got killed fast by an unusual amount of aero IIs. We managed to get a couple astral flows off and kill a few but we still had like 6 left and we would kill them 2 at a time by pulling and sleeping.

There were some JP players who occasionally would be out there soloing a fly. They were usually BLM or RDM and would stack as many DoTs as possible, die and reraise over and over again. We were there when a guy killed one and he said (as best he could through auto-translate) that he had lost 8000 xp on his RDM trying to kill like this one, and all it dropped was bandana.

[Capo]

its probably lag because ive only been looking at it during campaign, it just seemed like the first tic was taking less time to happen, other tics after that were fine

[Fiofio]

If you have 290 sword skill, how much +acc do you need for good Vorpal Blade damage, without eating Sole Sushi and using /nin sub? I'm trying to figure out if I should be using Morrigan's Coronal, or maybe tweak my gear here and there to reduce some STR and add more ACC.

[Callisto]

Nooby question of my own, I know nothing about fishing, but I heard some people bitching about how their Lu Shang's isn't really worth all the effort they put into it anymore, and I'm wondering: What happened to fishing to make that happen?

[Max™]

RMT fishbots, screwed markets for legit crafters who would be buying your fish, as the RMT's are largely self supplying anyway.

Regarding Vorpal, it's a Crit Tp Multi-hitter, I personally don't like to swing a multi-hit 1her with less than +40 Acc against high VT-low IT, back in the day that was Ohat+Hauberk+Life Belt+PCC, then mainly Str in the other slots.

Naturally with madrigal or lower mobs it will require less Acc, I just held true to the line of thought that a missed hit always does 0, so +50 Str won't help that hit.

Lemme think.

Coronal is 5 Acc, 5 Body, 5 Feet (Denali I assume), 8 Potent, 10 PCC, 6 Volunteers Brais, or 3 from Denali legs/Homam.

Toss in Alky's for the hands, Forager's, two Str rings, Brutal/Triumph, and I guess Tiphia.

Would give a good amount of Str, and 41 Acc should be plenty.

[Fiofio]

I'm using the following gear for Vorpal Blade, and I also have +10 acc from the Accuracy job trait from setting Disseverment and Frenetic Rip:

Perdu Hanger
Demon Slayer
Morrigan's Coronal
Chivalrous Chain
Morrigan's Robe
Alkyoneus's Bracelets
2 x Flame Rings
Suppanomimi & Brutal Earring
Amemet Mantle +1
Potent Belt
Homam Cosciales
Homam Gambieras

In total, without any food at all, I should have +48 acc from this gear and job trait, along with 290 sword skill and 76 DEX. Just wondering if maybe I should change out the Coronal for Optical Hat, or would this setup be enough?

[Ferien]

Should be more than enough.

[Phla]

can virtue weapons proc on WS? for ppl that answer!!!

[Bakthi]

Nooby question of my own, I know nothing about fishing, but I heard some people bitching about how their Lu Shang's isn't really worth all the effort they put into it anymore, and I'm wondering: What happened to fishing to make that happen?

What Max said, basically. I do consider mine to be worth it still, but I have the cooking and alchemy to back it up, so I am also self-supplying. If you just try to catch fish and sell them on the AH, it can get pretty depressing. Honestly though, I'd still rather be doing that than competing with DD/THFs over farming spots. Yes, you can kill mobs faster with your TH1 than I can with my TH3. It's very impressive. Cut it out >.>

[Max™]

Nooby question of my own, I know nothing about fishing, but I heard some people bitching about how their Lu Shang's isn't really worth all the effort they put into it anymore, and I'm wondering: What happened to fishing to make that happen?

What Max said, basically. I do consider mine to be worth it still, but I have the cooking and alchemy to back it up, so I am also self-supplying. If you just try to catch fish and sell them on the AH, it can get pretty depressing. Honestly though, I'd still rather be doing that than competing with DD/THFs over farming spots. Yes, you can kill mobs faster with your TH1 than I can with my TH3. It's very impressive. Cut it out >.>

Thats why I go on a DD sub and bring a Thf friend, he tags the mob, I rape it, he moves to another, I come rape it, lather rinse repeat, profit!

[Ferien]

can virtue weapons proc on WS? for ppl that answer!!!

No, they can't. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=21119

[ringthree]

In regards to straps (for GKT, however that may help):

Mythril+1 = Good to have around when you need to pile on extra STR and others won't make as big of an impact (bigger mobs)? Would Axe Grip just be a better choice? I figure the acc would help more than HP+20.

Claymore = Compared to the other grips out there, not worth it?

Pole = looks decent, something I should pick up?

Sword/Katana = lol?

I would say that Axe Grip is better than Mythril Grip for the STR, but I use it mostly for the HP on NIN when tanking.

Claymore is best for Soboro, and Pole is best for Hagun with Claymore being a decent alternative.

Sword is very good for places in which a 6 hit set-up is unnecessary (/THF?), it is also good for other jobs if you can't get to a 6 hit set-up or are way over a 6 hit set-up.

[Max™]

In most situations, Sword Strap adds an attack round to 100%, reducing WS frequency, which is where a big portion of 2her damage comes from.

Most of the other "good" options don't hinder your time til WS, and Pole even helps it, all while providing their own DoT benefits, 2% more doubles, 3% more crits, 2 or 3 more Acc, versus 3% faster swings (yay, 15 Delay off a great axe) in exchange for an extra hit to 100, AND gimping your Rajas ring.

It really is quite awful.

[ringthree]

I'm using the following gear for Vorpal Blade, and I also have +10 acc from the Accuracy job trait from setting Disseverment and Frenetic Rip:

Perdu Hanger
Demon Slayer
Morrigan's Coronal
Chivalrous Chain
Morrigan's Robe
Alkyoneus's Bracelets
2 x Flame Rings
Suppanomimi & Brutal Earring
Amemet Mantle +1
Potent Belt
Homam Cosciales
Homam Gambieras

In total, without any food at all, I should have +48 acc from this gear and job trait, along with 290 sword skill and 76 DEX. Just wondering if maybe I should change out the Coronal for Optical Hat, or would this setup be enough?

The accuracy you need is going to depend largely on the mobs you are fighting.

Well, the stats on the Coronal are very nice, so I would think that you should look for other places to find accuracy first. For example, PCC instead of the Chiv Chain. It would net you the same increase in accuracy with one more strength.

Other options include Galliard Trousers instead of Homam Cosciales, netting +1 Accuracy and +2 STR. Life instead of Potent might be another option but there is a loss of STR there. Also, I assume you are using a Tiphia Sting, but if not then definitely pick one up.

There are more I am sure, you just need to hunt around a bit.

I, personally and others probably wont agree with me on this LOL, don't like Gigas Bracelets because of the loss of accuracy. I don't really know what the alternatives are there so I can't say for sure, and if there isn't much then stick with it.

[theo]

Claymore is best for Soboro, and Pole is best for Hagun with Claymore being a decent alternative.

Why would you ever use Claymore Grip on SAM? I thought the generally accepted (although not proven?) understanding was that SAM WS can't Crit unless forced with SA. My crit rate on SAM is not very high to begin with even with 4/4 crit merits so I hardly see how adding 3% crits is going to do anything for me, especially if its never going to proc on my WS.

I use Polearm Strap even with Soboro mostly for the higher WS average. But if I had to switch I'd probably go to Mythril+1.

[ringthree]

In most situations, Sword Strap adds an attack round to 100%, reducing WS frequency, which is where a big portion of 2her damage comes from.

Most of the other "good" options don't hinder your time til WS, and Pole even helps it, all while providing their own DoT benefits, 2% more doubles, 3% more crits, 2 or 3 more Acc, versus 3% faster swings (yay, 15 Delay off a great axe) in exchange for an extra hit to 100, AND gimping your Rajas ring.

It really is quite awful.

Actually, (and I don't know if you read my post before posting) the Sword Strap is not "quite awful" IF you can't get to or do not need to worry about a 6 hit set-up. Under those circumstances it is in fact quite impressive. For a SAM those situations will likely only include someone with out a Rajas ring (main job mage or tank) or using an alternative sub (THF). Getting to 100% in one less attack round matters very little if you have to wait on SATA, while delay reduction could be increasing your melee damage during that time.

I am not saying that it is universally a good thing, just that it is definitely not awful. For example, a DRG/SAM using a Mezraq and standard Store TP gear (Rajas, Chiv Chain, Brutal Earring) can not get to a 6 hit set-up, and the Sword Strap would not effect a 7 hit set-up. In this situation the Sword Strap will probably be the best option, depending on haste gear, etc. While for a WAR with a 504 Great Axe it would force it from a 6 hit set-up to a 7 so it would indeed in that case be "quite awful". But then there are situations like Askar Korazin and eating Carbonara (which I think many people under appreciate) that can return them to a 6 hit set-up. Math is definitely not my forte, but as I understand it Double Attack has dimishing returns while delay reduction has multiplicative benefits.

Shit is situational, of course, but if you can make a situation in which you can get more delay reduction AND get keep a 6-hit build then it is probably the best option.

[ringthree]

Claymore is best for Soboro, and Pole is best for Hagun with Claymore being a decent alternative.

Why would you ever use Claymore Grip on SAM? I thought the generally accepted (although not proven?) understanding was that SAM WS can't Crit unless forced with SA. My crit rate on SAM is not very high to begin with even with 4/4 crit merits so I hardly see how adding 3% crits is going to do anything for me, especially if its never going to proc on my WS.

I use Polearm Strap even with Soboro mostly for the higher WS average. But if I had to switch I'd probably go to Mythril+1.

Depending on the distribution of 1, 2 and 3 attack rounds (and I have discussed this before in another thread on this subject) Pole Strap will do from next to nothing to nothing for Soboro, except on WS. It's the same reason you don't use a Brutal Earring for Soboro (unless you absolutely have to have it for a 6-hit build, which if you are using the correct equipment you should never have to do). So you are giving up +3% Crit chance on all of your attacks for a +2% chance of a DA on only your WS's, that is not a very good trade off at all. I would bet that Axe Grip would have better returns than Pole Strap.

And what is this about not Crit'ing on SAM WS's without SATA? I have never heard that, well, I have heard people mention it, but dismissed it from my own observations, and complete lack of evidence.

[moguri]

Claymore is best for Soboro, and Pole is best for Hagun with Claymore being a decent alternative.

Why would you ever use Claymore Grip on SAM? I thought the generally accepted (although not proven?) understanding was that SAM WS can't Crit unless forced with SA. My crit rate on SAM is not very high to begin with even with 4/4 crit merits so I hardly see how adding 3% crits is going to do anything for me, especially if its never going to proc on my WS.

I use Polearm Strap even with Soboro mostly for the higher WS average. But if I had to switch I'd probably go to Mythril+1.

Depending on the distribution of 1, 2 and 3 attack rounds (and I have discussed this before in another thread on this subject) Pole Strap will do from next to nothing to nothing for Soboro, except on WS. It's the same reason you don't use a Brutal Earring for Soboro (unless you absolutely have to have it for a 6-hit build, which if you are using the correct equipment you should never have to do). So you are giving up +3% Crit chance on all of your attacks for a +2% chance of a DA on only your WS's, that is not a very good trade off at all. I would bet that Axe Grip would have better returns than Pole Strap.

And what is this about not Crit'ing on SAM WS's without SATA? I have never heard that, well, I have heard people mention it, but dismissed it from my own observations, and complete lack of evidence.

It is generally accepted that unless the WS description allows for criticals, that WS cannot critical unless forced by SA or Mighty Strikes. Ex: asuran fists can't critical.

[Ferien]

And what is this about not Crit'ing on SAM WS's without SATA? I have never heard that, well, I have heard people mention it, but dismissed it from my own observations, and complete lack of evidence.

It was shown a while ago that if a WS didn't specifically say it could crit, that the only way to get it to was through Mighty Strikes or Sneak Attack. Was a while ago, but I definitely remember, because I adamantly refused to believe it, and then was proven wrong.

Now for my own question...What's the most effective 6-hit build for a WAR and SAM without Rajas or Askar? I already figure I'm going to need Carbonara for my WAR, but is there a way to do it on SAM? Also, is it possible at 70, or will I have to wait for 75?

[ringthree]

And what is this about not Crit'ing on SAM WS's without SATA? I have never heard that, well, I have heard people mention it, but dismissed it from my own observations, and complete lack of evidence.

It was shown a while ago that if a WS didn't specifically say it could crit, that the only way to get it to was through Mighty Strikes or Sneak Attack. Was a while ago, but I definitely remember, because I adamantly refused to believe it, and then was proven wrong.

Can I see the evidence of this, because I am still in the adamant refusal group? LOL
Even if this is the case, I still highly doubt that Pole Strap will outparse a Claymore grip. Besides the difference in damage comparing regular melee crits to a DA WS, I believe that a DA on a WS gains none of the fTP modifiers from the WS or something like this. This is observable by the fact that 1 TP return SAM weaponskills hit for very low damage. So you are basically comparing 3% crit over your melee phase to 2% of one additional STR modified regular hit which will happen at best once every 6 hits. I could be wrong on whether the fTP modifier is not applied or if its the stat modifier which is applied, but the fact remains that the second attack of DA SAM weaponskill is significantly weaker than the first hit.

Now for my own question...What's the most effective 6-hit build for a WAR and SAM without Rajas or Askar? I already figure I'm going to need Carbonara for my WAR, but is there a way to do it on SAM? Also, is it possible at 70, or will I have to wait for 75?

A WAR/SAM using a 504 delay GA will only need Carbonara and +1 Store TP to get to a 6-hit build.
A SAM using a 450 delay GK will need full Store TP merits, Carbonara and Hachiman Sune-ate to hit the minimun +46 Store TP to get to a 6-hit build. That is probably the most simple way to get to a 6-hit build without Rajas.