Random Question Thread

[Phla]

can virtue weapons proc on WS? for ppl that answer!!!

No, they can't. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=21119

thankss

[Niiro]

Now for my own question...What's the most effective 6-hit build for a WAR and SAM without Rajas or Askar? I already figure I'm going to need Carbonara for my WAR, but is there a way to do it on SAM? Also, is it possible at 70, or will I have to wait for 75?

Without Rajas, Askar, or Usukane (if you can't get Askar or Rajas I doubt you're likely to have usukane) the ideal 6 hit setup for SAM would be:

25 Traits
10 Merits
9 Hachiman Kote +1
1 Brutal Earring
1 Chivalrous Chain

If you plan on using Carbonara to achieve it, the Kote can be NQ and you can use something else in place of the Chiv Chain (don't need Brutal either but you should have one either way).

I'm not bored enough to figure it out for WAR atm.

And no, SAM WSs cannot crit without the use of SA, I've actually tested that myself.

[Amele]

looks like it is samurai day on the random question thread lol.

Claymore is best for Soboro, and Pole is best for Hagun with Claymore being a decent alternative.

Why would you ever use Claymore Grip on SAM? I thought the generally accepted (although not proven?) understanding was that SAM WS can't Crit unless forced with SA. My crit rate on SAM is not very high to begin with even with 4/4 crit merits so I hardly see how adding 3% crits is going to do anything for me, especially if its never going to proc on my WS.

I use Polearm Strap even with Soboro mostly for the higher WS average. But if I had to switch I'd probably go to Mythril+1.

2% chance of a 50% boost to your weaponskills is pathetic.
3% chance of a 50-100% boost on every regular swing is going to outperform that every single time. my opinions basically match ringthree's, although I like toying with plat on soboro just because of the hit density.

the Sword Strap is not "quite awful" IF you can't get to or do not need to worry about a 6 hit set-up. Under those circumstances it is in fact quite impressive. For a SAM those situations will likely only include someone with out a Rajas ring (main job mage or tank) or using an alternative sub (THF).

while I agree generally with your assessment of /thf (I disagree in the particulars, if you can manage to get your potential time to TP down in the 30 second range (six hit setup with sub 5 second swing speed and 90%+ accuracy) it is useful to be able to ws twice per 1 minute SA cycle. but this is more of an exception) I disagree with your assessment that you would want to use this if you couldn't get a six hit setup.

you would need 29 store TP to maintain the 7 hits you would otherwise have naked; if you have a rajas this is fine and would remove the requirement for merits (so for a -fresh- sam75, sword is better until they get their first 15 merit points) if you don't have a rajas you're either putting 3+ merits into store TP (at which point you should consider doing a six hit build without a rajas: either via askar body or with double hachiman/usukane) or you're sacrificing haste in either hands or feet slots. (with the singular exception of people who already own askar body or usukane shoes. who I would recommend start working on a six hit setup anyway)

so, basically; it's only optimal for transient situations (pre-store TP merits, after getting one of usu feet/body or askar body, but before getting both, etc) and is feasible but non-optimal for other situations (in which you would be losing 3% haste to get -3% delay, which is a bad trade.) or in situations where you can't get mean time to WS to 30 seconds or lower on /thf. now, it's cheap enough that these are all worth considering: but I don't know if I would consider it worth the trouble.

Now for my own question...What's the most effective 6-hit build for a WAR and SAM without Rajas or Askar? I already figure I'm going to need Carbonara for my WAR, but is there a way to do it on SAM? Also, is it possible at 70, or will I have to wait for 75?

Samurai: 46 store TP, 25 free @ 70, 35 free @ 75. (so 21 at 70, 11 at 75)
it's easy to get at 75 but you sacrifice a haste piece (basically wear hachiman hands and feet) if you don't eat carbonara. at 70 you would need to wear both pieces + shinimusha haidate (level 50 STP+6) and eat carbonara.

Warrior, it would depend on your weapon, but assuming 504 delay (rampager, martial bhuj, byakko's axe, fort axe etc.) you would need 22 store TP for six hits: you get 0 free. basically, you'd need a corsair >.>;

for 7 hits you just need five, carbonara + brutal is all you need.

[ringthree]

the Sword Strap is not "quite awful" IF you can't get to or do not need to worry about a 6 hit set-up. Under those circumstances it is in fact quite impressive. For a SAM those situations will likely only include someone with out a Rajas ring (main job mage or tank) or using an alternative sub (THF).

while I agree generally with your assessment of /thf (I disagree in the particulars, if you can manage to get your potential time to TP down in the 30 second range (six hit setup with sub 5 second swing speed and 90%+ accuracy) it is useful to be able to ws twice per 1 minute SA cycle. but this is more of an exception) I disagree with your assessment that you would want to use this if you couldn't get a six hit setup.

you would need 29 store TP to maintain the 7 hits you would otherwise have naked; if you have a rajas this is fine and would remove the requirement for merits (so for a -fresh- sam75, sword is better until they get their first 15 merit points) if you don't have a rajas you're either putting 3+ merits into store TP (at which point you should consider doing a six hit build without a rajas: either via askar body or with double hachiman/usukane) or you're sacrificing haste in either hands or feet slots. (with the singular exception of people who already own askar body or usukane shoes. who I would recommend start working on a six hit setup anyway)

so, basically; it's only optimal for transient situations (pre-store TP merits, after getting one of usu feet/body or askar body, but before getting both, etc) and is feasible but non-optimal for other situations (in which you would be losing 3% haste to get -3% delay, which is a bad trade.) or in situations where you can't get mean time to WS to 30 seconds or lower on /thf. now, it's cheap enough that these are all worth considering: but I don't know if I would consider it worth the trouble.

I have already conceded it is definitely not worth it if you are losing your 6-hit build. I do not think that is a reasonable proposition for SAM because they already have to carefully balance gear to get to a 6-hit build, and I would never suggest adding more Store TP just so that you can use a Sword Strap. For example if my SAM gets an Askar Korazin, I would not then try to use a Sword Strap, I would instead stop using Hachiman Sune-ate for TP build and switch to Fuma Sune-ate.

My arguments generally dealt with other jobs, were it's either difficult to get to a 6-hit build (DRG/SAM) or it is easy to get to a 6-hit build (WAR/SAM). I will concede that I mentioned a SAM without a Rajas, and I can see your point there, but the argument definitely holds for other jobs. There are also other things to consider like TP return on multi-hit WS's, etc, but at that point I am delving even farther from the original point of this thread. LOL

[Capo]

kinda feel like an idiot asking this and i could easily go test myself but effort </3

to convert damage to mp while cover is up with valor surcoat equipped, does the target of the damage have to be the person you are covering, or will you get mp back even if you are taking the damage directly? i always figured it has to be covered damage but i thought id ask to confirm

[Bakthi]

Warrior, it would depend on your weapon, but assuming 504 delay (rampager, martial bhuj, byakko's axe, fort axe etc.) you would need 22 store TP for six hits: you get 0 free. basically, you'd need a corsair >.>;

for 7 hits you just need five, carbonara + brutal is all you need.

I'd imagine a WAR using greataxe might be /SAM, so unless I misunderstand it, that's 15 free, not 0, leaving 7 to make up. Rajas, Brutal, and Chiv. Chain add up to 7 (I didn't check your math to make sure +22 is what is needed, because this doesn't really affect me other than academically).

[Ferien]

Actually, it'd be easier for me to get Usukane feet than it would be to get Askar, since I do Salvage regularly, but I have a Sattva that I don't want to get rid of, so that's the deal with Rajas. Also, WAR/SAM gets the 15 base from subjob, so I guess the only way to do it is with Rajas, Askar, or Carbonara.

As for SAM, I have Dusk hands and feet, Pallas's, Fumas, and Rutters, and my main concern is getting the most out of my entire gearset. I think I remember someone saying that if you use Hachiman feet, you can't swap them out, is that true? Optimization is the goal here, but if it's impossible to do, so be it (or, alternatively, suck it up and dump my Sattva...)

Regardless, I guess the consensus is to just eat Carbonara?

[theo]

I think I remember someone saying that if you use Hachiman feet, you can't swap them out, is that true?

Yeah, this is true for SAMs who use the Hachi feet + Rajas + Brutal. My personal preference is to use the Hachiman Kote instead, which has enough Store TP to allow me to wear Rutters on WS. And if I ever get Usukane shoes I'll trash my Hachiman all together, just got the 25 piece last night but skirmisher pephredo is a whore.

[Amele]

@ringthree: yeah, I guess I misunderstood your comments slightly (you risk losing 7 hits depending on what you're wearing. a sam without some store TP gear who uses a sword strap goes back to 8; a sam with 5+ points of store TP gear (the amount needed to maintain that 7 hit setup with strap is 4) should be within easy reach of a six hit setup, only needing 11 after merits.)

I think I remember someone saying that if you use Hachiman feet, you can't swap them out, is that true?

Yeah, this is true for SAMs who use the Hachi feet + Rajas + Brutal. My personal preference is to use the Hachiman Kote instead, which has enough Store TP to allow me to wear Rutters on WS. And if I ever get Usukane shoes I'll trash my Hachiman all together, just got the 25 piece last night but skirmisher pephredo is a whore.

using hachi feet is worthwhile if you have better hand pieces than foot pieces (this is rare, mostly people who don't have fuma shoes or have dusk+1 hands etc) otherwise, like you state, hachi kote are better because you can swap them out on ws and not lose the six hit setup.

ferien: in your case since you have rutters and a good str hand piece, you probably want to use hachi hands with your carbonara. good luck on the usu shoes: we've got 4 of the 35's now but we still haven't gotten it (or ares hands really..) to drop from LAC - we've seen everything else enough times that we've maxed out on the drops ._.;




and y'all are right; I forgot about the 15 from /sam. the aforementioned gear sets are correct for war/sam.

[Niiro]

we've got 4 of the 35's now but we still haven't gotten it (or ares hands really..) to drop from LAC - we've seen everything else enough times that we've maxed out on the drops ._.;

I've got the 35 usu legs and my LS leader has 35 morrigan's body, have seen neither 25 drop from LBC in forver.

I know the feeling -.-

Fucking Phobos's mask.

[theo]

Fucking Phobos's mask.

Had this double drop for us the other night

[Max™]

Delay reduction does not have the same multiplicative benefits lthat Haste does, ruining that part of the argument.

Claymore to me is best for Raging Rush spam, 3% crits during melee AND ws ftw! For Soboro it comes down to not blanking out a gear slot, 3% crits with Soboro spam helps the lower damage, Plat helps the Acc/Stunning is nice, Mythril +1/Axe help on WS/a little on Melee.

Not all sams use Soboro full time, I would probably be a Hagun sam, prefer the look of the weapon, and the WS damage, so Pole ftw.

Rajas without /Sam makes a 504 Great Axe go 8-7 hit, Sword Strap with 504 and no Store Tp stays 8 hits, /Sam you're normally just barely 7 hits I believe, but Sword Strap puts you back to 8 hit as I recall, and it ruins 6 hit build unless you use Askar body or Carbonara.

Give how much more benefit Pole or Claymore give to Great axe, without nullifying store Tp gear, and that they both help Great Axe WSes, it's horrible for Gaxe use.

It's also horrible for War/Nin's with Sword Strap+Rajas, made me very sad seeing that all over the place.

[Halion]

I use sword strap on DRG because it didn't change my hits to 100 :\

RDM defense set question: I am not a tank or anything, I mostly use it for campaign to be honest, it's fun to /BLU and tank large groups. Hexerei Cape 3% all damage versus Cheviot 5% physical/10% nighttime physical? I'm not splurging 700k extra for Umbra unless I garner more use for it.

Edit: Also any suggestion for my standing set neck piece? Nothing obvious comes to mind and my promise badge has been bugging me lately.

[Amele]

Delay reduction does not have the same multiplicative benefits lthat Haste does, ruining that part of the argument.

this is misleading: you do get the same benefit assuming you have the same quantity (speaking strictly about attack speed and not tp gain) it is however, much harder to get straight delay reduction.

[BerenTebogo]

Fucking Phobos's mask.

Had this double drop for us the other night

Trade you for some anythings.

Needed this for like 3-4 weeks now, even though I only semi-want to finish ares' mask (aka waste my gil)

[Aurara]

Fucking Phobos's mask.

Had this double drop for us the other night

Trade you for some anythings.

Needed this for like 3-4 weeks now, even though I only semi-want to finish ares' mask (aka waste my gil)

Pffft, you wanna give me those 12 O.ingots -.-

[Max™]

Delay reduction does not have the same multiplicative benefits lthat Haste does, ruining that part of the argument.

this is misleading: you do get the same benefit assuming you have the same quantity (speaking strictly about attack speed and not tp gain) it is however, much harder to get straight delay reduction.

As I said, you get the same attack speed gain, you generally reduce your TP gain, in the same was that Dual wield does, so it doesn't give the full benefits of haste.

Since the DoT for 2h weapons isn't the vast majority of their output, it just doesn't strike me as wise to lengthen the time between WSes unnecessarily.

Going from my 6 hit War/Sam to 7 hit War/Anything else already feels slow, going back to 8 hits would kill my soul, lawl.

[ringthree]

I think I remember someone saying that if you use Hachiman feet, you can't swap them out, is that true?

Yeah, this is true for SAMs who use the Hachi feet + Rajas + Brutal. My personal preference is to use the Hachiman Kote instead, which has enough Store TP to allow me to wear Rutters on WS. And if I ever get Usukane shoes I'll trash my Hachiman all together, just got the 25 piece last night but skirmisher pephredo is a whore.

Excluding Askar and Usukane, the reason you go with Hachi feet is because Dusk gloves are better than Fuma Sune-ate. It's all a question of finding what works and what doesn't, and mixing and matching to get the right combo. That being said, TP in Hachi feet, Rajas, Brutal and Chiv Chain and you will have enough so that you can use Rutter on WS. 5 Swings at 16.9 + 1 WS at 16.3 and you have 100.8 TP in 6 hits.

[ringthree]

Delay reduction does not have the same multiplicative benefits lthat Haste does, ruining that part of the argument.

Claymore to me is best for Raging Rush spam, 3% crits during melee AND ws ftw! For Soboro it comes down to not blanking out a gear slot, 3% crits with Soboro spam helps the lower damage, Plat helps the Acc/Stunning is nice, Mythril +1/Axe help on WS/a little on Melee.

Not all sams use Soboro full time, I would probably be a Hagun sam, prefer the look of the weapon, and the WS damage, so Pole ftw.

Rajas without /Sam makes a 504 Great Axe go 8-7 hit, Sword Strap with 504 and no Store Tp stays 8 hits, /Sam you're normally just barely 7 hits I believe, but Sword Strap puts you back to 8 hit as I recall, and it ruins 6 hit build unless you use Askar body or Carbonara.

Give how much more benefit Pole or Claymore give to Great axe, without nullifying store Tp gear, and that they both help Great Axe WSes, it's horrible for Gaxe use.

It's also horrible for War/Nin's with Sword Strap+Rajas, made me very sad seeing that all over the place.

You literally ignored a page worth of discussion on the issue and just repeated yourself.

[quote=Max™]

Delay reduction does not have the same multiplicative benefits lthat Haste does, ruining that part of the argument.

this is misleading: you do get the same benefit assuming you have the same quantity (speaking strictly about attack speed and not tp gain) it is however, much harder to get straight delay reduction.

As I said, you get the same attack speed gain, you generally reduce your TP gain, in the same was that Dual wield does, so it doesn't give the full benefits of haste.

Since the DoT for 2h weapons isn't the vast majority of their output, it just doesn't strike me as wise to lengthen the time between WSes unnecessarily.

Going from my 6 hit War/Sam to 7 hit War/Anything else already feels slow, going back to 8 hits would kill my soul, lawl.[/quote:2lkk9bw3]

No one is suggesting using it if you increase the number of hits to get to 100TP. Your argument is complete moot.

[Sampi]

Now for my own question...What's the most effective 6-hit build for a WAR and SAM without Rajas or Askar? I already figure I'm going to need Carbonara for my WAR, but is there a way to do it on SAM? Also, is it possible at 70, or will I have to wait for 75?

As for the 6 hit setup at 70, the ways to do it are either HQ Hachi hands and feet, Chiv chain and Rajas, requiring no store TP in food, or lose 6 of that store tp (in HQ pieces, chiv chain, Rajas) and use Carbonra. Since you need 21 once you hit 70.

Hachi hands - 8 (HQ 9)
Hachi Feet - 5 (HQ 6)
Rajas -5
Chiv Chain - 1
Carbonra - 6

You could also use Hachi Body, but if you do, I would really want to stab you in the eye, cause its never ever worth it wearing Hachi body.