Random Question Thread

[aurik]

<_<
sorc mitts = 1.05x dmg, or with static also equipped 1.10/1.05x dmg
zenith mitts = (mab+5)/mab x dmg
zmitts+1 = (mab+6)/mab x dmg

There's no way to know which is better without knowing your pre-existing mab.

[Hapernack]

I got it to happen quite often, I will try again tomorrow, and see what results I can get, I'll take more SS if I see it again. What the poster after me was saying, and he is a "MAIN" 75 BLM, is that the effect of INT to your build is enhanced more by the more MAB you have, so my mitts and gages were at a point where in the formula my MAB was high enough to allow the stats on the gages to factor a higher result than my mitts did on that nuke and many others.

Yes but if this were true then with my MAB level I could switch out my Ugg pendant with my Prudence Torque and come out with more damage almost every time. You have over 8MAB less than I do and 10+ less INT than I do just by default. So using your reasoning I could have a Prudence Torque outdamage someone with the same build as me but with Ugg Pendant latent active.

The difference in Prudence Torque and Ugg Pendant is much bigger than Yigit Gages and Zenith Mitts. It's basically like comparing Snow Ring to Sorc Ring, Sorc Ring's bonus is so big, it will still outshine.

That right up there. You're saying that your MAB index is so high as a mithra with par gear that the stats on gages can "factor a higher result" than your NQ Zenith Mitts.

Through that sentence alone one can deduce then that I could feasibly switch out my Mitts with Gages and get a significantly higher result even though I have never been able to get this to occur. I don't feel like doing the math all right now but your index might be as high as 1.68 total if you had your Ugg and Sorc Ring latents kicking in. Add a lantern on top of that and you'll strike 1.78, and add the obi (I know you didn't have it on in those pics but say you did) and the elemental staff bonuses and roughly you have a 2.03 index. However keep in mind that if that means that by lowering your index to 2.00 and adding another 5 INT to the damage equation can give you an extra damage point, then just how much would it mean to me? A taru with an index of 2.12 with all gear on and an extra 12 INT naturally stuck on (I don't even know if I out-do you on any INT on any other gear) should get a significantly larger boost then from extra INT points yes?

[Suiram]

<_<
sorc mitts = 1.05x dmg, or with static also equipped 1.10/1.05x dmg
zenith mitts = (mab+5)/mab x dmg
zmitts+1 = (mab+6)/mab x dmg

There's no way to know which is better without knowing your pre-existing mab.

You can kinda put a number on it since any BLM could reasonably be thought to have between 32 and 70 MAB before mitts, so

AF2 hands (or +1): +5%
Zenith Mitts (NQ): +2.9~3.8%, depending on how much MAB you already have.

Also af2 hands are still 5% even with static, because they are compounded seperately (total bonus of roughly 10.25%).

Sorry it took so long for me to post, but I was trying to find a good example of when yigit gages might slightly outdamage zenith mitts. It can happen but suffice it to say you would need to be fighting something with pretty high INT (or you yourself have low INT), and have a lot of MAB and other bonuses for them to take over; definitely possible though that it happens from time to time for some people, same as yigit turban vs. AF1+1.

[aurik]

obi doesn't add mab...and yea my af+1 hat outdoes my turban for pure dmg

[Koyangi]

...and yea my af+1 hat outdoes my turban for pure dmg

Same.

[Hapernack]

obi doesn't add mab...and yea my af+1 hat outdoes my turban for pure dmg

Well yes I know but I was making everything with bonuses (staves too) MAB just for number's sake.

The logic for 5 INT over 2MAB is obvious and will almost always come out on top (same with the HQ Demons for 6 INT or the Maat's Cap for 7) but what Koy is suggesting is that after a certain amount of MAB, the INT bonuses become so augmented that they can overtake a small amount of MAB which I'm thinking isn't true or else I'd definately be taking out my Zenith for an alternative.

[aurik]

obi doesn't add mab...and yea my af+1 hat outdoes my turban for pure dmg

Well yes I know but I was making everything with bonuses (staves too) MAB just for number's sake.

The logic for 5 INT over 2MAB is obvious and will almost always come out on top (same with the HQ Demons for 6 INT or the Maat's Cap for 7) but what Koy is suggesting is that after a certain amount of MAB, the INT bonuses become so augmented that they can overtake a small amount of MAB which I'm thinking isn't true or else I'd definately be taking out my Zenith for an alternative.

it is true, tho, but the point varies depending on your exact setup and spell being cast.

[Suiram]

Okay, here's a convoluted but not entirely implausible example of yigit gages doing more than zenith mitts. Say you're fighting a pudding, on iceday, getting the bonus from day and you have af2 legs. You also have Aquilo's staff and 60 MAB from job trait, gear, and merits with no hands equipped. Furthermore, your INT is the same as the pudding's without hands equipped (I think Niv said once that he judged them to have 90-91 INT, so I guess that's reasonable, particularly if you are stacking most of your slots with MAB to reach that 60, and maybe you are a race with low base INT).

Then if I'm doing the math right (and due to my lack of sleep it's entirely possible I didn't, but the overall point remains the same), then casting Blizzard 4:

Zenith Mitts: 1377
Yigit Gages 1378

lol, I know, but I hope the idea behind it is somewhat better illustrated by this example

[Hapernack]

By the way, you can tell I need to level a second job to 75 by the way I'm trying to understand why there's a 1 point of damage difference between two hand-pieces.

[Suiram]

Also if you can see why AF1+1 can sometimes outdamage yigit turban (5 INT vs. 2 MAB), I don't get why you can't see how yigit gages might occasionally outdamage zenith mitts (5 INT vs. 3 MAB), albeit less often. The same principles are at work, just to a larger degree.

[Hapernack]

Also if you can see why AF1+1 can sometimes outdamage yigit turban (5 INT vs. 2 MAB), I don't get why you can't see how yigit gages might occasionally outdamage zenith mitts (5 INT vs. 3 MAB), albeit less often. The same principles are at work, just to a larger degree.

I look for practical uses for improvements. If this were something that could be used in say HNMs, large BCNMs, etc then I'd want to know specifically how and why it works. I can see 2MAB being outperformed by 5-7 INT easily which is why I use the INT pieces but 3MAB being outperformed by 5INT is a much more specific case. As it is becoming apparent, only when faced with a monster such as puddings (nothing else will suffice) in very specific conditions with very specific bonuses and very specific portions of gear, the gages will eventually produce a single point of damage more than NQ Zenith. This brings my main point back around into asking just how much more will this affect me than him? If his setup brings about a single point, can I expect a more significant turnout if I were to try Yigit Gages? Also since my MAB index and INT is far superior to his, could that also mean the same effect of a single point of damage or more could be achieved when using my char and HQ Zenith vs Yigit?

[ringthree]

I love this thread, does anyone else think this should be stickied? There are so many random questions that I have that don't need lone thread and would be better asked in a place like this.

[ringthree]

Would this macro work?

/equip neck "Breeze Gorget"
/ws "Blade: Jin" <t>
/wait 2
/echo TP: <tp>
/equip neck "Chivalrous Chain"

I also have a TP return echo in there and it always comes back with the TP after the WS, so I assume that the effect of the Gorget is procing on the WS, but I just wanted to double check.

[yrpaine]

Would this macro work?

/equip neck "Breeze Gorget"
/ws "Blade: Jin" <t>
/wait 2
/echo TP: <tp>
/equip neck "Chivalrous Chain"

I also have a TP return echo in there and it always comes back with the TP after the WS, so I assume that the effect of the Gorget is procing on the WS, but I just wanted to double check.

no, you need a delay after you equip the breeze gorget b4 the weaponskill unless you're using windower macros.

[ringthree]

Would this macro work?

/equip neck "Breeze Gorget"
/ws "Blade: Jin" <t>
/wait 2
/echo TP: <tp>
/equip neck "Chivalrous Chain"

I also have a TP return echo in there and it always comes back with the TP after the WS, so I assume that the effect of the Gorget is procing on the WS, but I just wanted to double check.

no, you need a delay after you equip the breeze gorget b4 the weaponskill unless you're using windower macros.

So this is different from say Meditate where it looks like this:

/equip head "Myochin Kabuto"
/equip hands "Saotome Kote"
/ja Meditate <me>
/wait 2
/equip head "Optical Hat"
/equip hands "Ochiudo's Kote"

Because I know that works without a windower macro.

And why is it any different for windower macros and in game macros?

[Suiram]

Hmm, I just realized that I was dumb yesterday and all that shit I posted about day/staff/obi/af2 etc doesn't matter, Yigit Gages would outdamage Zenith (again, by 1 point) if you kept the INT and MAB the same and got rid of all that other stuff; those two terms are all that matters (well, more precisely not INT but the base damage of the spell, which is just a function of INT and the spell itself). Just pointing that out before someone else notices and calls me on it.

[theo]

Would this macro work?

/equip neck "Breeze Gorget"
/ws "Blade: Jin" <t>
/wait 2
/echo TP: <tp>
/equip neck "Chivalrous Chain"

I also have a TP return echo in there and it always comes back with the TP after the WS, so I assume that the effect of the Gorget is procing on the WS, but I just wanted to double check.

no, you need a delay after you equip the breeze gorget b4 the weaponskill unless you're using windower macros.

So wait. Say my macro looks like this.

Line1: /console exec SamWS.txt
Line2: /ws "Tachi: Gekko" <t>
Line3: /wait 4
Line4: /console exec SamTP.txt

Is the macro fast enough for my WS gear to work? Or should I put a short /wait in between the Line1 and Line2?

Sometimes my character doesn't blink on screen until after the WS, but I had always assumed this was just graphical lag and not a problem.

[akarikamigishi]

I've found that you need a wait 1 before WSing with windower macros. Mine look something like:

//mnkws (boosts, then changes gear - no af gloves due to lack of space)
/wait 1
/ws "Asuran Fists" <t>

Without the wait 1, asuran never went off, I tried several times. I ran out of macro palette room, used to have boost on its own macro, but had to take it out to make room for other stuff, so I tossed boost into the ws macro itself, and never had problems.

the /equip Breeze Gorget | /ws Blade Jin combo will work, that's how all my non-windower ws macros look. Sometimes you won't blink until after the WS goes off, but you'll still see the 'Equipment changed.' in log before WS, so you know it changed.

[Tajin]

VIT is a mod for asuran fists?

[cassiraa]

VIT is a mod for asuran fists?

Only on the first hit. It's not enough to be worth pumping in most cases.