Random Question Thread

[Ryushii]

shit is situational. the fstr2 calculation is approximately the same as 50% str (for the purposes of selecting gear, don't try to calculate damage that way)

so if you can get 5 agi over 3 str, that will improve your (D+FSTR2+WSC) about the same amount

1/2 AGI is also racc, 1/2 str is ratt. if damage is your only concern, STR is (almost always) better. but it *is* situational.

if you want a more in depth look at it, I can walk you through how to calculate expected damage in detail, I can; it's not terribly difficult math (about basic algebra) but it can be complex.

Does the 5agi=3str rule apply to both xbow and bow?

There was no rule.
5 AGI 3 STR was just an example.

To get better use of damage formula, you need
- basic knowledge math
- basic knowledge calculus

you'd need more agi for the bow because str applies twice. (which is effectively what VZX said)

I don't think it takes calculus though, at least, I've never needed any calculus for them; optimization plots from statistics and probability type courses would probably cover it too (or even just equation comparisons which is basic knowledge algebra) unless there's something I missed? (I would be interested in learning more about the pdif distribution, since I haven't been able to find anything concrete on it beyond: "in certain ranges, the mode is 1.0; mostly")

(I suppose basic calculus gives you knowledge about calculating damage function rates of change for given stats, but for it to be useful with most gear (since just about everything "good" these days has multiple stats) you'd really need advanced calculus since you'd want to be doing slopes along multiple axes simultaneously.)

That sounds great, and I have taken Calculus. Where could I find all this information and possibly someone to explain it to me?

[ringthree]

Ok, so I don't know very much about modifiers, and I am lvling RNG. I looked up the modifiers for the marksmanship and archery skills and saw that str only affects archery. Now I have been told by some of the RNG in my shell that STR is more important to increase than AGI for Archery because it not only is a modifier, but it also factors into the damage equation and whatever else they said that I didn't completely understand but sort of did. Anyway, I see that Marksmanship WSes have a 30% AGi modifier, and no STR modifier. Does that mean a RNG would want to stack AGI over STR for Marksmanship, or do the modifiers for Marksmanship not matter as much as increase damage directly using STR? Also, where does Ranged Attack factor into the equation (if anywhere)?

Melee and Ranged Attacks have different calculations. This is vary simplistic but essentially the effect of STR is double that of melee attacks. This counts for both regular attacks and WS's.

In other words, stack STR.

[ringthree]

shit is situational. the fstr2 calculation is approximately the same as 50% str (for the purposes of selecting gear, don't try to calculate damage that way)

so if you can get 5 agi over 3 str, that will improve your (D+FSTR2+WSC) about the same amount

1/2 AGI is also racc, 1/2 str is ratt. if damage is your only concern, STR is (almost always) better. but it *is* situational.

if you want a more in depth look at it, I can walk you through how to calculate expected damage in detail, I can; it's not terribly difficult math (about basic algebra) but it can be complex.

Does the 5agi=3str rule apply to both xbow and bow?

There was no rule.
5 AGI 3 STR was just an example.

To get better use of damage formula, you need
- basic knowledge math
- basic knowledge calculus

you'd need more agi for the bow because str applies twice. (which is effectively what VZX said)

I don't think it takes calculus though, at least, I've never needed any calculus for them; optimization plots from statistics and probability type courses would probably cover it too (or even just equation comparisons which is basic knowledge algebra) unless there's something I missed? (I would be interested in learning more about the pdif distribution, since I haven't been able to find anything concrete on it beyond: "in certain ranges, the mode is 1.0; mostly")

(I suppose basic calculus gives you knowledge about calculating damage function rates of change for given stats, but for it to be useful with most gear (since just about everything "good" these days has multiple stats) you'd really need advanced calculus since you'd want to be doing slopes along multiple axes simultaneously.)

That sounds great, and I have taken Calculus. Where could I find all this information and possibly someone to explain it to me?

http://www.freewebs.com/vzx-01/

Learn it, live it, love it.

[Ryushii]

http://www.freewebs.com/vzx-01/

Learn it, live it, love it.

Looking through this site, I have some questions.

1) How do you determine dSTR?
2) I only sort of understand pDIF, but how do you find the value of the mob's DEF?
3) I don't understand how to find weapon rank.
4) Ok so...I kinda understand most everything. Correct me if I'm wrong: STR factors into both the fSTR2 and the WS modifier for Bow, along with factoring into ratt, which factors into pDIF, whereas AGI only factors into WS modifier. My question with that is, which factor (WSC or fSTR2) has a higher influence on WS damage, and how heavy the influence is of pDIF compared to fSTR2 in reagular ranged attacks. (fSTR2 is twice as much as fSTR, so for a ranged attack, that means fSTR2 would have twice the influence as fSTR, right?)

[Amele]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Base_Damage

wiki is more in depth and quite a bit more verbose (including better explanations of what the various variables are.

use the additional information links from this page, in addition to this page.

[Ryushii]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Base_Damage

wiki is more in depth and quite a bit more verbose (including better explanations of what the various variables are.

use the additional information links from this page, in addition to this page.

These pages are like copied verbatum from the site given in the earlier reply.

[Septimus]

Random question I can't seem to find the answer to:

Anyone know the command to check NPC (Adventure Fellow) HP% and TP (not sure if this one is possible though). I knew the one for HP a couple months ago, but forgot since then. The TP one is the main one I'm interested in.

As far as I remember, there is no way to check the HP or TP of your Adventuring Fellow. I know that <ft> is the target command for Fellows, you could always try <fhp> to see if that works.

It would be nice if they put in some fellow commands, like /fellowhp to get a report on HP/MaxHP, /fellowtp to get a report on TP, /fellowmp to get a report on MP/MaxMP, /fellowxp to get the (vague) report on XP to next level, and /fellowlevel to get a report on current job and level.

[Amele]

http://www.freewebs.com/vzx-01/

Learn it, live it, love it.

Looking through this site, I have some questions.

1) How do you determine dSTR?

dSTR is the difference between your strength and the mob's vit.

2) I only sort of understand pDIF, but how do you find the value of the mob's DEF?

talk to nagamaki, lol. you can do this with /check functions and varying your attack (the point where you change over from high defense to no message is when your attack = their defense)

alternately, if you can find the family's defense and VIT ranks, you can back calculate it. remember to add 8. (more information here)

3) I don't understand how to find weapon rank.

floor(weapon damage value / 9 ) for weapons with latent/hidden effects, weapon rank is based on the "printed" Damage code.

4) Ok so...I kinda understand most everything. Correct me if I'm wrong: STR factors into both the fSTR2 and the WS modifier for Bow, along with factoring into ratt, which factors into pDIF, whereas AGI only factors into WS modifier. My question with that is, which factor (WSC or fSTR2) has a higher influence on WS damage, and how heavy the influence is of pDIF compared to fSTR2 in reagular ranged attacks. (fSTR2 is twice as much as fSTR, so for a ranged attack, that means fSTR2 would have twice the influence as fSTR, right?)

agi also does r.accuracy, but you knew this.
the ranged WS damage function is:

(D + A + WSC + FSTR2) * PDIF * fTP = damage

D and A and fTP are 'known' (bow damage, ammo damage, fTP for your particular weaponskill) and don't change, so we can drop them out.

WSC = that stat mod printed in every weaponskill everywhere (i.e. 30% agi)

you seem to have a handle on FSTR2.

FSTR2 is ~50% str, when looking at adding gear; WSC is as printed. they have the same weight, after adjusting for the percentages. (50% agi would have the same weight as fstr2). each full point of either WSC or FSTR2 is equivalent to adding 1 damage to the weapon.

adding one point of FSTR2 (or WSC) adds (pDIF * fTP) damage. adding 0.1 pDIF (which is typically about 30 attack) adds (0.1 * (D+A+WSC+FSTR2) * fTP) damage.

pdif to wsc or fstr doesn't really have a directly comparable weight, since they aren't independent variables with respect to each other in overall damage.

edit, yeah, you're right ryuushi, I just skimmed vzx's document and didn't see everything I remembered; looking through closer the information is basically the same, yes.

[VZX]

I want to add something

http://www.freewebs.com/vzx-01/

Learn it, live it, love it.

Looking through this site, I have some questions.

1) How do you determine dSTR?

dSTR is the difference between your strength and the mob's vit.

Each race has their own stats rank (i.e. Mammol is D in VIT, Collibri is E in VIT and AGI, etc), and their main job/sub job(i.e. RDM/RDM for collibri race, NIN/NIN for mamool ja infiltrator, etc) which will affect how high is their stats.

I think mamool ja infiltrator is the highest VIT exp/merit mob you fight in Aht Urghan Area with 85VIT and the lowest is greater collibri with 67 VIT

[quote:45133]
4) Ok so...I kinda understand most everything. Correct me if I'm wrong: STR factors into both the fSTR2 and the WS modifier for Bow, along with factoring into ratt, which factors into pDIF, whereas AGI only factors into WS modifier. My question with that is, which factor (WSC or fSTR2) has a higher influence on WS damage, and how heavy the influence is of pDIF compared to fSTR2 in reagular ranged attacks. (fSTR2 is twice as much as fSTR, so for a ranged attack, that means fSTR2 would have twice the influence as fSTR, right?)

agi also does r.accuracy, but you knew this.
the ranged WS damage function is:

(D + A + WSC + FSTR2) * PDIF * fTP = damage

D and A and fTP are 'known' (bow damage, ammo damage, fTP for your particular weaponskill) and don't change, so we can drop them out.

WSC = that stat mod printed in every weaponskill everywhere (i.e. 30% agi)

you seem to have a handle on FSTR2.

FSTR2 is ~50% str, when looking at adding gear; WSC is as printed. they have the same weight, after adjusting for the percentages. (50% agi would have the same weight as fstr2). each full point of either WSC or FSTR2 is equivalent to adding 1 damage to the weapon.

adding one point of FSTR2 (or WSC) adds (pDIF * fTP) damage. adding 0.1 pDIF (which is typically about 30 attack) adds (0.1 * (D+A+WSC+FSTR2) * fTP) damage.

pdif to wsc or fstr doesn't really have a directly comparable weight, since they aren't independent variables with respect to each other in overall damage.

edit, yeah, you're right ryuushi, I just skimmed vzx's document and didn't see everything I remembered; looking through closer the information is basically the same, yes.[/quote:45133]
and from this point you use basic calculus

Damage=?D+ aD+ WSC + fSTR2)*pDIF...(1)

derive it with respect to attack:
Damage_diff=(D+ aD+ WSC + fSTR2)*?pDIF...(2)

derive it with respect to base damage change:
Damage_diff=(D+ aD+ ?WSC + ?fSTR2)*pDIF...(3)

If we can accurately make the pDIF average formula, we can easily compute it in 1 step
Eq2 = Eq3
(D+ aD+ WSC + fSTR2)*?pDIF = (D+ aD+ ?WSC + ?fSTR2)*pDIF

[ringthree]

floor(weapon damage value / 9 ) for weapons with latent/hidden effects, weapon rank is based on the "printed" Damage code.

Does this apply to weapons like Maneater and Senj in the same way or is Senj calculated with the higher damage after being unlocked?

[VZX]

I think the answer is directly on this page
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Weapon_Rank

or, you can check its talk page

[ringthree]

I think the answer is directly on this page
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Weapon_Rank

or, you can check its talk page

So, should I be main-handing Maneater (DMG: 43, Latent Effect: DMG: 49) or Juggernaut (DMG: 46)

The Maneaters WR should be 4, while the Juggernaut is 5, right?

[VZX]

I think the answer is directly on this page
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Weapon_Rank

or, you can check its talk page

So, should I be main-handing Maneater (DMG: 43, Latent Effect: DMG: 49) or Juggernaut (DMG: 46)

The Maneaters WR should be 4, while the Juggernaut is 5, right?

yes

[Ryushii]

Ok, correct me if I am wrong...but if 1 fSTR2 is the same as 1 MSC (in terms of increasing WS damage), then if we compare the values it takes to increase each by 1, then can't we find how much of one stat would compare to how much of another? I.E. Using Marksmanship as an example (30% AGI mod), 3 AGI would present an increase of 1 point in MSC (3*0.3=0.9, so 3.3 if you wanna be really picky). The set increase for fSTR2 is about 2 STR. That would mean 3AGI=2STR, or to be more exact, 10AGI=6 STR. The STR would also add ratt, but isn't 3 ratt a small amount in WS calculations? Forgive me is this is wrong, I am still quite new at this.

Another question to go along with this. If x AGI = y STR, then how much ranged attack would equal these two (for a WS)? I mean, how many points of ranged attack would create an equal increase in damage to a set amount of AGI or STR?

Edit: What I meant when I asked "How do you calculate dSTR?" was how do you practically calculate it, like to figure out how it will be versus certain mobs/mob types. Sorry that I wasn't clear on that, but I am still in the process of lvling RNG to 75, and want to be able to maximize damage on the way up (my main goal in lvling it is to be the very best I can be on the way up, not just at lvl 75).

[ringthree]

I think the answer is directly on this page
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Weapon_Rank

or, you can check its talk page

So, should I be main-handing Maneater (DMG: 43, Latent Effect: DMG: 49) or Juggernaut (DMG: 46)

The Maneaters WR should be 4, while the Juggernaut is 5, right?

yes

Yes to main handing which? LOL (I am assuming Juggernaut at this point)

[Suiram]

Yes to main handing which? LOL (I am assuming Juggernaut at this point)

You asked if you should mainhand maneater, he said yes. You asked if Juggernaut had higher wrank, he said yes.

The slightly longer answer is that you aren't likely going to have capped fSTR so weapon rank doesn't matter, and that even if you did that's just one more point of base damage from higher weapon rank on jugg versus three from the higher damage rating on maneater.

[Amele]

Ok, correct me if I am wrong...but if 1 fSTR2 is the same as 1 MSC (in terms of increasing WS damage), then if we compare the values it takes to increase each by 1, then can't we find how much of one stat would compare to how much of another? I.E. Using Marksmanship as an example (30% AGI mod), 3 AGI would present an increase of 1 point in MSC (3*0.3=0.9, so 3.3 if you wanna be really picky). The set increase for fSTR2 is about 2 STR. That would mean 3AGI=2STR, or to be more exact, 10AGI=6 STR. The STR would also add ratt, but isn't 3 ratt a small amount in WS calculations? Forgive me is this is wrong, I am still quite new at this.

3 ratt is slightly less than .01 pDIF (~1% mob defense) this will be visible if increased damage if the sum of D+A+FSTR2+WSC is more than 100.(really rough benchmark) so it still appears.

incidentally, I can't think of any slots off hand where you could get 10AGI but not get at least 6 strength (or for that matter, 5AGI vs. 3STR) but I don't know ranger gear inside out.

[quote:25d3b]
Another question to go along with this. If x AGI = y STR, then how much ranged attack would equal these two (for a WS)? I mean, how many points of ranged attack would create an equal increase in damage to a set amount of AGI or STR?

vzx went over the calculus in more detail, anyway: the answer varies depending on how much AGI, STR, weapon damage, and current pdif you have. (you could plug the numbers in and get the equivalencies with his equation if you happen to know the values for all the variables.)

[quote:25d3b]Edit: What I meant when I asked "How do you calculate dSTR?" was how do you practically calculate it, like to figure out how it will be versus certain mobs/mob types. Sorry that I wasn't clear on that, but I am still in the process of lvling RNG to 75, and want to be able to maximize damage on the way up (my main goal in lvling it is to be the very best I can be on the way up, not just at lvl 75).

[/quote:25d3b][/quote:25d3b]

vzx covered this too, you need to find out the mob family's VIT rank, the particular mob's level, job/sub (assume the job and sub are the same unless you have reason to think differently: i.e. a job that both triple attacks and has mp to drain) and possibly if the mob has a racial trait bonus (like how colibri have a racial bonus of +20 evasion)

the information is around, I didn't find anything really fast though I know it's available because I've used it before. it's possible that you'll need to go to the original ghobli documents but I'm not certain.

in general, if you're simply trying to maximize your damage and not expressly -calculate- your damage, you can compare different sets by seeing what increase you get just from the delta-change, which might be faster in the long run for you than trying to nail down the exact stats of every mob you exp on between now and 75.

[ringthree]

Yes to main handing which? LOL (I am assuming Juggernaut at this point)

You asked if you should mainhand maneater, he said yes. You asked if Juggernaut had higher wrank, he said yes.

The slightly longer answer is that you aren't likely going to have capped fSTR so weapon rank doesn't matter, and that even if you did that's just one more point of base damage from higher weapon rank on jugg versus three from the higher damage rating on maneater.

Actually I phrased it as either/or, so I was a bit confused.

Yes, LOL I completely forgot about the base damage part of the function. So Maneater should obviously be better.

And to further clarify WRANK only effects the upper limit on damage, right? And it does not have any direct effect on damage dealt, right?

[VZX]

Ok, correct me if I am wrong...but if 1 fSTR2 is the same as 1 MSC (in terms of increasing WS damage), then if we compare the values it takes to increase each by 1, then can't we find how much of one stat would compare to how much of another? I.E. Using Marksmanship as an example (30% AGI mod), 3 AGI would present an increase of 1 point in MSC (3*0.3=0.9, so 3.3 if you wanna be really picky). The set increase for fSTR2 is about 2 STR. That would mean 3AGI=2STR, or to be more exact, 10AGI=6 STR. The STR would also add ratt, but isn't 3 ratt a small amount in WS calculations? Forgive me is this is wrong, I am still quite new at this.

yep
don't forget level correction for WSC is .83 at 75, and higher at level before 75

That's why, with the formula I wrote before, you must translate everything X base damage vs Y ratk
For example, scout's belt is 5 AGI ratk+7, you want to compare it with ocean sash which is 4 STR. you should translate it:
(for slug shot)
1.245D , ratk+7 vs 2D, ratk+2. which will be simplified to:
ratk+5 vs 0.755D

Another question to go along with this. If x AGI = y STR, then how much ranged attack would equal these two (for a WS)? I mean, how many points of ranged attack would create an equal increase in damage to a set amount of AGI or STR?

Again, using the formula I wrote on my previous post, you can calculate the average case.

Edit: What I meant when I asked "How do you calculate dSTR?" was how do you practically calculate it, like to figure out how it will be versus certain mobs/mob types. Sorry that I wasn't clear on that, but I am still in the process of lvling RNG to 75, and want to be able to maximize damage on the way up (my main goal in lvling it is to be the very best I can be on the way up, not just at lvl 75).

Not sure what are you asking, still.
But assuming you mean "given mob VIT and my own STR, what is my fSTR2?" can be answered by this approximation table
If you mean "how do I directly tell what my fSTR2 value on the run?" then I'm not sure you can do it easily every time.
One characteristic of ranged attack pDIF is that if your ratio sitting on 0.9~1.1 you have pDIF = 1.0 at every single shot. Therefore you can easily tell what your fSTR2 value is.

For example, you are using obow+holy bolt, hitting some monster with 90 damage (w/o add effect)
then you can put it in equation
90=54+32+fSTR2
fSTR2= 4

However, once your pDIF sitting outside this range, you can't directly tell what your fSTR2 is

[Amele]

right. wrank only matters once you approach the max or min for fstr. (which can happen. you just need a total strength of something like 110 to max out all of a rank 3 weapon on greater colibri (example: joyeuse) - to cap out say, a hagun, you'd need like 130.)