Random Question Thread

[ringthree]

right. wrank only matters once you approach the max or min for fstr. (which can happen. you just need a total strength of something like 110 to max out all of a rank 3 weapon on greater colibri (example: joyeuse) - to cap out say, a hagun, you'd need like 130.)

Any idea what the general value for wrank 4 and 5 would be on Colibri?

[Amele]

like 112 and 115 respectively.

[Kriz]

Hmm, I know better understand Wrank.

For a while, I was really displeased that my (DMG:27, so rank 3) was as such versus the Brass Jadagna (DMG:45/46, so rank 5). And that logic holds true for Perdu wand too, I guess.

Oh well, from what I read here, I'll never have the STR to really make a big deal out of it!

[ringthree]

like 112 and 115 respectively.

Well, as an Elvaan WAR with 5 STR merits and decent gear, I should pretty easily be able to hit this, so does that change anything?

[Amele]

like 112 and 115 respectively.

Well, as an Elvaan WAR with 5 STR merits and decent gear, I should pretty easily be able to hit this, so does that change anything?

yes, once you approach it, focus on +attack gear and not +str.

the difference between wrank 5 and wrank 4 is 1 point in the FSTR part, so it gets you 1 * (pDIF * fTP) additional damage on a ws, or just pDIF additional damage on a regular attack. (this is gonna be something like 1-2 points of damage per hit in a weaponskill)

especially once you've nearly capped fstr, each additional .1 pdif (about 33 attack) will provide something like, 6+ damage per hit.

[Sendra]

Is JoPru stun immune? LS doing him tonight and I wanna know if I can pressure them into letting me come NIN rather than PLD.

[Kaeko]

Is JoPru stun immune? LS doing him tonight and I wanna know if I can pressure them into letting me come NIN rather than PLD.

Stun immune

[Ryushii]

Ok, correct me if I am wrong...but if 1 fSTR2 is the same as 1 MSC (in terms of increasing WS damage), then if we compare the values it takes to increase each by 1, then can't we find how much of one stat would compare to how much of another? I.E. Using Marksmanship as an example (30% AGI mod), 3 AGI would present an increase of 1 point in MSC (3*0.3=0.9, so 3.3 if you wanna be really picky). The set increase for fSTR2 is about 2 STR. That would mean 3AGI=2STR, or to be more exact, 10AGI=6 STR. The STR would also add ratt, but isn't 3 ratt a small amount in WS calculations? Forgive me is this is wrong, I am still quite new at this.

yep
don't forget level correction for WSC is .83 at 75, and higher at level before 75

That's why, with the formula I wrote before, you must translate everything X base damage vs Y ratk
For example, scout's belt is 5 AGI ratk+7, you want to compare it with ocean sash which is 4 STR. you should translate it:
(for slug shot)
1.245D , ratk+7 vs 2D, ratk+2. which will be simplified to:
ratk+5 vs 0.755D

Another question to go along with this. If x AGI = y STR, then how much ranged attack would equal these two (for a WS)? I mean, how many points of ranged attack would create an equal increase in damage to a set amount of AGI or STR?

Again, using the formula I wrote on my previous post, you can calculate the average case.

Ok, so if all this is true, would it also hold true that 2 AGI>1STR for Marksmanship WS? Can I use that as a general rule, or am I missing something?

If I do the same calculation for Archery...let's say to try to increase it by 2 points you need 4 STR for fSTR2, 12 STR for MSC, and 8 AGI for MSC. So 4 STR=8AGI, but you have to include the STR increase you get in MSC for STR, which for 4 STR would be .64. To make it simpler, let's say 12 STR=24 AGI, and the MSC increase for 12 STR is 2, so to compensate for that you need to add another 2 MSC worth of AGI to the equation, meaning 12STR=32AGI, or more simply, 3 STR=8AGI. So a blanket statement would be that you need 3 AGI for every 1 STR to be more effective. That also fails to account for any ratt boosts or anything. Does this sound correct?

Edit: What I meant when I asked "How do you calculate dSTR?" was how do you practically calculate it, like to figure out how it will be versus certain mobs/mob types. Sorry that I wasn't clear on that, but I am still in the process of lvling RNG to 75, and want to be able to maximize damage on the way up (my main goal in lvling it is to be the very best I can be on the way up, not just at lvl 75).

Not sure what are you asking, still.
But assuming you mean "given mob VIT and my own STR, what is my fSTR2?" can be answered by this approximation table
If you mean "how do I directly tell what my fSTR2 value on the run?" then I'm not sure you can do it easily every time.
One characteristic of ranged attack pDIF is that if your ratio sitting on 0.9~1.1 you have pDIF = 1.0 at every single shot. Therefore you can easily tell what your fSTR2 value is.

For example, you are using obow+holy bolt, hitting some monster with 90 damage (w/o add effect)
then you can put it in equation
90=54+32+fSTR2
fSTR2= 4

However, once your pDIF sitting outside this range, you can't directly tell what your fSTR2 is[/quote]

I guess I'm still being too vague, but the answer to this question was answered earlier when someone said not to worry about direct mob def values and just the other parts unless I actually want to calculate my damage.

Some other questions...
Where does WSC correction factor in? I don't remember seeing that on the site.
So what you are saying VZX, is that you have to compare ratt vs. damage, but couldn't that be extended to relating ratt and AGI or STR? I tried to do the math and wasn't quite sure. It seems like it would be very situational depending on alot of things. Is there anyway to give a concrete rule? Even if it changes after each level or whatnot?

[Delekii]

Weaponskill damage = (WD+AD+fSTR2+WSC)*fTP*pDIF

WSC =
floor(floor(Relevent stat(s) * Relevent %('s))*level correction)

Unless a point of agi puts your WSC up to the next whole number, it is doing nothing (aside from accuracy, I guess), for slugshot.

Work out for yourself what is the highest agi you can get to push up your WSC 1 point. For example, if you have say, 90 agi, your WSC for slug shot at lvl 75 is
floor(floor(90*.3)*.83)=22
If you were to add 3 agi, for a total of 93 agi,
floor(floor(93*.3)*.83)=22
those 3 points of agi do nothing for your damage. But, if you add 4 agi,
floor(floor(94*.3)*.83)=23

You cant say "4agi=2str" or anything along those lines, it depends on whether or not it raises one portion or the other of the damage by at least a point. The only way you can make a perfect comparison is when you know the exact vit of the mob (or when you know exactly how much str you need to reach the next fstr), and you can compare directly whether a piece of gear will allow you to raise one portion or the other of damage..

[Ryushii]

Weaponskill damage = (WD+AD+fSTR2+WSC)*fTP*pDIF

WSC =
floor(floor(Relevent stat(s) * Relevent %('s))*level correction)

Unless a point of agi puts your WSC up to the next whole number, it is doing nothing (aside from accuracy, I guess), for slugshot.

Work out for yourself what is the highest agi you can get to push up your WSC 1 point. For example, if you have say, 90 agi, your WSC for slug shot at lvl 75 is
floor(floor(90*.3)*.83)=22
If you were to add 3 agi, for a total of 93 agi,
floor(floor(93*.3)*.83)=22
those 3 points of agi do nothing for your damage. But, if you add 4 agi,
floor(floor(94*.3)*.83)=23

You cant say "4agi=2str" or anything along those lines, it depends on whether or not it raises one portion or the other of the damage by at least a point. The only way you can make a perfect comparison is when you know the exact vit of the mob (or when you know exactly how much str you need to reach the next fstr), and you can compare directly whether a piece of gear will allow you to raise one portion or the other of damage..

But doesn't the fact that it works the same way when increasing fSTR(2) kind of make that argument null and void? If you don't know for sure (unless you calculate it out for every single situation) whether the STR OR AGI will really increase damage, shouldn't it be assumed that it will?

[Delekii]

But doesn't the fact that it works the same way when increasing fSTR(2) kind of make that argument null and void? If you don't know for sure (unless you calculate it out for every single situation) whether the STR OR AGI will really increase damage, shouldn't it be assumed that it will?

You can know exactly when agi will push up your damage, WSC has nothing to do with the mob. Like I showed in the example above, 93 agi means 22 wsc, and 94 agi means 23 wsc - nothing about the mob or the situation will change that. If you have 93 agi, 3 of that agi is not affecting your damage, and could be swapped for str or attack without losing any damage whatsoever. edit: I should say that thats only true at 75.. of course, you need to work out the threshold for your own level/gear situation.

fstr/fstr2, you are right, you can really only assume that it will (although for fstr where it takes 4 str for each point of fstr, there is a 75% chance that adding 1 str will not add 1 fstr)

[Ryushii]

But doesn't the fact that it works the same way when increasing fSTR(2) kind of make that argument null and void? If you don't know for sure (unless you calculate it out for every single situation) whether the STR OR AGI will really increase damage, shouldn't it be assumed that it will?

You can know exactly when agi will push up your damage, WSC has nothing to do with the mob. Like I showed in the example above, 93 agi means 22 wsc, and 94 agi means 23 wsc - nothing about the mob or the situation will change that. If you have 93 agi, 3 of that agi is not affecting your damage, and could be swapped for str or attack without losing any damage whatsoever. edit: I should say that thats only true at 75.. of course, you need to work out the threshold for your own level/gear situation.

fstr/fstr2, you are right, you can really only assume that it will (although for fstr where it takes 4 str for each point of fstr, there is a 75% chance that adding 1 str will not add 1 fstr)

Ok, then that doesn't make my 2AGI>1STR completely null. A better way to look at it would be that raising it by a point is equal to 2 STR, so when deciding gear I guess I have to take all that into account.

[VZX]

Ok, so if all this is true, would it also hold true that 2 AGI>1STR for Marksmanship WS? Can I use that as a general rule, or am I missing something?

There's no general rule that makes the formula like x AGI = y STR. the number always changes dependent on your current base damage and your current pDIF

If I do the same calculation for Archery...let's say to try to increase it by 2 points you need 4 STR for fSTR2, 12 STR for MSC, and 8 AGI for MSC. So 4 STR=8AGI, but you have to include the STR increase you get in MSC for STR, which for 4 STR would be .64. To make it simpler, let's say 12 STR=24 AGI, and the MSC increase for 12 STR is 2, so to compensate for that you need to add another 2 MSC worth of AGI to the equation, meaning 12STR=32AGI, or more simply, 3 STR=8AGI. So a blanket statement would be that you need 3 AGI for every 1 STR to be more effective. That also fails to account for any ratt boosts or anything. Does this sound correct?

yes.
but not necessarily true for all cases.

here does WSC correction factor in? I don't remember seeing that on the site.

WSC is the thing you mistyped as "MSC"

So what you are saying VZX, is that you have to compare ratt vs. damage, but couldn't that be extended to relating ratt and AGI or STR? I tried to do the math and wasn't quite sure. It seems like it would be very situational depending on alot of things. Is there anyway to give a concrete rule? Even if it changes after each level or whatnot?

Look at the formula I gave previously:
(D+aD+?fSTR2)*pDIF=(D+aD+fSTR2)*?pDIF

or if you want a more simple version:
?D*pDIF = D*?pDIF
D= your total base damage. since fSTR2 is unknown, you can leave it as variable or do 2 equation for possible min/max fSTR2
pDIF = your current pDIF value. you can do 2 equation for min/max or do an average case for min/max

pDIF(cRatio) = pDIF(m_avg*atk/def)
?pDIF(cRatio) = pDIF(m_avg*?atk/def)
m_avg = average slope for min/max ranged pDIF on that specific region

Just remember for maximizing, there's thing you can determine by yourself:
- Damage
- ammo Damage
- Secondary modifier (WSC)

And there are thing you can't determine:
- fSTR2, you can't decide the number for yourself but it depends on mob VIT. However, in case that you're not overhunting, you can expect every 2 STR increases your base damage by 1.

- pDIF, also, you can't decide it by yourself. But you know that the higher mob def, the worthless your "x ranged attack" will be.
Take an example:
mob with 300 def and your ratk = 300. ratio = 1.000
if you increase your ratk by 10, you get : 310/300 = 1.033 (.10 pDIF increase)
if you increase your ratk by 10, adding Dia II effect (-10% def): 310/270 = 1.148 (.14 pDIF increase)
if you increase your ratk by 10, adding Dia II effect and Acid bolt (-22.5% def total) : 310/232= 1.333 (.33 pDIF increase)

In order to get better return by adding ranged attack, lowering mob defense by Dia or defense down effect is the best.

[Palom]

Sell/keep Sha'ir feet now that I have Rostrum? I won't miss the CHR or MP.

I used both. Rostrum Pumps for buffs and Sha'ir Crackows (Goliard Clogs now) for debuffs.

[gandorf]

Anyone wouldn't happen to know a good bst solo spot 31-35? I was using wiki but most of the places give bad xp.

An if their is any 75bst here can you tell me what to expect from bst other then hours of solo?

[Nekonaruto]

Pretty sure this has been asked a few thousand times before, but would you mainhand Perdu Blade or Senjuinrikio? My belief has always been that lower delay weapon goes in offhand, so Perdu in this case. But since the Latent procs on WS, my actual question is: does it proc in offhand or does it have to be on mainhand? Since for KS30 weapons, unless I got that wrong (too) the Crit%+ only applies to the weapon it's on and isn't applied to both weapons...but does the ACC/ATT+ from Perdu weapons apply to both?

PS: I do realize that there are most likely better combos than Senju/Perdu, recommandations welcome.


Editted for better understanding.

[Awoir]

kikoku/perdu

[Tajin]

Anyone wouldn't happen to know a good bst solo spot 31-35? I was using wiki but most of the places give bad xp.

An if their is any 75bst here can you tell me what to expect from bst other then hours of solo?

Lots of spider webs, crab meat, cockatrice meat, torama hides, etc, etc. In short a BST should never be poor.

Also, in before /bandwagon



P.S. and lots of Seals :D

[Senji]

mainhand Perdu Blade or Senjuinrikio?

Mainhand Senji

While your correct on Perdus bonus's kicking in for both hands, the KS30 weapons crits are only for that hand. This doesnt make any difference while building TP, but it does for WS.

Jin for example goes: main + main + main + offhand

So your gonna want the higher damage and crit bonus for your mainhand strikes.

[gandorf]

Anyone wouldn't happen to know a good bst solo spot 31-35? I was using wiki but most of the places give bad xp.

An if their is any 75bst here can you tell me what to expect from bst other then hours of solo?

Lots of spider webs, crab meat, cockatrice meat, torama hides, etc, etc. In short a BST should never be poor.

Also, in before /bandwagon



P.S. and lots of Seals :D

Thanks :D even know I just quit bst again like an hour ago for war. >_>