Upcoming Version Update Details (02/14/2007)

[Blitzen]

The balance problem lies in the melee jobs. We all know 2handed weapons are broke and have always been broken. Here is a perfect example, i'm going to use DRK.

- 4 attack up traits at 10,30,50,70 (we should be doing the most damage per hit otherwise why give us these attack ups?)

Current system: axe/axe war hits exp mob for 90, 78, total damage: 168
DRK hits with scythe: 130 damage.

New System: axe/axe war hits exp mob for 90, 78, total damage: 168
DRK hits with scythe: 210 damage.

Either give us a working scythe boost or make last resort like berserk and all the drk's would be happy campers.

Yeah, ATK/DEF bonuses are pretty paltry... I always thought it would be better if each individual tier gave 30 of its respective stat, that would truly make 4 stacked ATK/DEF bonuses much more noticable.

[Lordender]

and then they stack last resort + berserk?

sub war in exp and you'll die very quick on drk in merit parties especially if your retarded enough to stack both of those you'll die in 4hits.

[Spira]

didn't last resort use to be like.. identical to berserk or something?

[Bakthi]

Make an area with equivalent exp/rate, but where the mob's dmg is magical and bypasses shadows, even more, make it so that it can change mode to become invulnerable to magic or physical dmg (that would bring back the classic parties where people *gasp* Skillchain and Magic Burst for maximum effectiveness). The mob would have somewhat low hp but would give a real lot of exp, since it would most likely take longer to kill than the ToAU mobs (something around 1-1:30min, but the exp would be double or so). There, Paladin keeps its role/design the way it is now, gets merit/exp and people quit bitching about WARx4 RDM BRD-only parties. I dont think it's wrong for Paladins to ask a boost in merit/exp, I just think the way people want said boost is wrong. If they gave PLDs better dmg capability, people wouldnt eat defense food or gear for tanking, they would maximize the dmg capability and use /NIN the same way we do now. And Paladin tanking in exp/merit would still be an unresolved issue.. But hey it's like Tekki said, we can bitch some and hope SE gives us Ultima or something.

People just wouldn't exp there, they'd go to the easiest camp... that wouldn't fix anything.

I bet if the mobs were T-VT, blue mages would solo/duo there since they can easily do both types of damage, and they'd be confident that most people would stay away because it would be too complicated for them to deal with.

I also don't think mode-changing mobs would encourage skillchain+MB, because it would suck to waste your weaponskill on a physically immune mob, which is the time the BLM would want to MB it. What would be really amusing is if NINs started carrying elementals tools again at 75 to deal with such monsters. Nice boost to crafters, there.

A camp with slightly difficult rules would appeal to me, because I'm usually partying with LS members who can think, and most of the other parties would either:

a) cram into Caedarva Mire.
b) try to use the new area, but kill so inefficiently that we wouldn't really care.

It would also relieve some of the monotony of merits.

[Lordender]

didn't last resort use to be like.. identical to berserk or something?

yes it used to before some retard thought it was a good idea to change it to 30 seconds.

[Dark Vincent]

A camp with slightly difficult rules would appeal to me

Yeah tbh the idea is making a slightly difficult camp where Paladin tanking is actually necessary, doesnt need to necessarily be what I said. It wouldnt matter how this difficult would come. Unfortunately exp mobs are balanced only up to 70 (as in, there are equally good camps for PLD and NIN tank), they need to make it so it's still balanced from 70+.

[Ryko]

and then they stack last resort + berserk?

Don't forget souleater!

We call this the yhoator special.

[Mertron]

and then they stack last resort + berserk?

Don't forget souleater!

We call this the yhoator special.

DRK obtains level 30.
DRK falls to level 29.

(hay I did that)

[deivi]

and then they stack last resort + berserk?

Don't forget souleater!

We call this the yhoator special.

(hay I did that)

<--guilty

I think everyone that's ever lvd DRK has done that after hitting 30 lol

[Alathar]

I've solo'd everything from Greater Colibri, to Deco Weapons, to Imps, to Mage Mamool Ja. Imps are just easier, but a smart BLU can solo alot of T and VT mobs.

BLU can solo well because it is one of a few jobs that is able to haste and stun. Combine this with a large array of haste +% gear available and you can get fairly low recast timers (if only we could get fast cast JT). Their evasion also isn't too bad ... it's a hell of a lot better than my RNG. We also have a cheap slow spell and a not so cheap paralyze.

[RKenshin]

and then they stack last resort + berserk?

Don't forget souleater!

We call this the yhoator special.

(hay I did that)

<--guilty

I think everyone that's ever lvd DRK has done that after hitting 30 lol

The best is when it happens again with Guillotine.

[Ryko]

"HEY GUYS I DID 2K"

"fuck"

[Cylo]

Well how would one calculate exactly how much base damage a scythe needs to keep on par damage-wise with WAR and MNKs (buffs excluded)?

BTW everytime someone types out "yhoator" I remember my LS's honkey pronunciation "ya hooter" and it makes me bust up.

edit - spelling typo

[Lordender]

well didn't mean to de-rail the thread with loldrk but that is just one of the issues that sticks out the most for me.

[Faranim]

The job imbalance in merit parties stems from 2 problems:

1. The over-powered-ness of WAR and /WAR for melee jobs. No other subjob offers more than what Berserk and Double Attack can offer for a melee. Aggressor is totally broken compared to other melee job abilities. If you want to be dealing the best damage on merit mobs, you either need to be a WAR, or sub WAR.

2. You need to be able to survive. This is where DRK fails horribly. Most other jobs have some sort of survival mechanism:

MNK - Counter and Guard
WAR/NIN - Utsusemi
NIN - Utsusemi
THF - Trick Attack and High Evasion
SAM - Third Eye and Parrying
DRG - Jumps
DRK - Stun and Drain? lol

Thus, DRK either needs to sub NIN and gimp their damage, or sub WAR and take an awful lot of damage. DRK/WAR can deal awesome damage, but you NEED to have incredibly good mages in the party that are willing to cure all that damage you'll be taking.

Increasing 2 Handed weapon damage would only make SAM more powerful, DRK will still be stuck gimping himself on /NIN, or killing himself on /WAR. A better way to "fix" DRK is to add Scythes that don't suck ass.

[bebeci]

DRK could definitely use some kind of scythe trait, like whatever the MNKs get at lvl.1 (Martial arts?)

[Alvinho]

Scythe Mastery would be kind of nice. Shield Mastery is there, and it's PLD onry (even though a bunch of other jobs that have shield skill don't rely on it 95% of the time), being that a PLD would need to make the best possible use out of his shield in order to function properly.

I also doubt any other job capable of wielding a Scythe would bitch about not getting it, since I can't recall the last time I saw a someone on a job other than DRK wielding a Scythe. All the BSTs I've seen use Axes, BLMs use Staves, and WARs will usually stick w/ Dual Axes or Great Axe, unless they're farming low-level stuff, or skilling up. ¬¬

As a plus, DRKs would have even more of an incentive to actually use Scythe over Great Sword (unless they're in a skillchain that calls for Great Sword).

[Eaglestrike]

DRK could definitely use some kind of scythe trait, like whatever the MNKs get at lvl.1 (Martial arts?)

Really every job could benefit from this:
DRK - Two-handed weapon mastery - Lowers delay when using two-handed weapons (GAxe/GSword/Scythe) by a %
NIN + THF - <weapon> mastery - Increases critical hit rate with each jobs weapon of choice, say 2% each with 4 levels?
DRG - Lancer - Increases damage done with a polearm - % increase in physical damage dealt per level.

However, I'm perfectly fine with WAR and MNK being the kings of DoT. Some job has to be and other jobs are more useful on HNM's (if you don't have a tp burn setup) and other situations (thf for TH, nin for tanking, kraken drk, loldrg, etc.)

[NynJa]

If you want to be dealing the best damage on merit mobs, you either need to be a WAR, or sub WAR.

uh...

[Jeryhn]

If you want to be dealing the best damage on merit mobs, you either need to be a WAR, or sub WAR.

uh...

Incoming anti-/WAR argument from Nynja.

Hit the deck!