Upcoming Version Update Details (02/14/2007)

[Sady]

I'm not usually pessimistic about these things but I have to admit, when I read these latest update details I was like "That's it?"...

Animation for getting a merit? Woop-de-fucking-do!!! Changing merit modes in the field is convenient, but far from revolutionary.

The mission updates damn well better be very extensive, like with some challenging battles and captivating plot development. Not stuff I can get done in a few hours between raids with pickup groups or solo...

All I have to say to SE is "Where's the beef?", don't hold back on us now!

[Toth]

One can argue that progression can be measured in the context of how once impossible HNMs (from Serket to the COP wyrms and now even to Bahamut v2) are being downed in either mere minutes or by extremely small groups. Some jobs (especially PLD and the embracing of /NIN as a very popular sub) have progressed significantly since the beginning as well.

[Septimus]

Again, I think it is wrong to tell people that they shouldnt moan. It is our right as customers. Maybe it is an American ideal that we have the right to free speach.

Yes, as a customer you have the right to moan, but for the love of all things bright and beautiful it is getting annoying. We don't know what the rest of the update holds, so it if fairly ridiculous to complain after the first update detail.

Anyone of us can make a detailed list of things that need to be fixed. Square knows this, and as we have seen, they do read this (and other end game) forum. I'm not saying that we should shut up and take anything that Square gives us, but on the other hand the broken record complaints don't add anything except to post counts.

[Jeryhn]

One can argue that progression can be measured in the context of how once impossible HNMs (from Serket to the COP wyrms and now even to Bahamut v2) are being downed in either mere minutes or by extremely small groups. Some jobs (especially PLD and the embracing of /NIN as a very popular sub) have progressed significantly since the beginning as well.

One could also argue that "progression" includes killing those HNMs with a PUP-only alliance, but you don't see anyone being bothered to attempt that.

[NynJa]

I think this update has a bunch of small things again that are pretty huge.


Relic storage. Good, its about time. "WAH WAH THIS GAME HAS NO INVENTORY YOU CANT HOLD ANYTHING WAHHHHH". I've heard ppl bitch about relic storage for over a year now, glad its finally here. Late > Never.

Change from merits <-> xp on the fly, HUGE too. As someone said, you do dynamis on 1 job, get r3, then change and do stuff on another job. You head out to an ENM on that previous job and when you get up to bearclaw pinnacle you remember you're 240xp from cap. Small things that make a difference.



If you think small things dont make a difference, next time you take a girl out on a date (if you do), don't hold the door for her, dont compliment her, and dont take her share of the bill (well dont do it always, you gonna go broke lulz. Small things make the biggest difference.

[Ryko]

One can argue that progression can be measured in the context of how once impossible HNMs (from Serket to the COP wyrms and now even to Bahamut v2) are being downed in either mere minutes or by extremely small groups.

Yeah and some would make the argument that the first "HNMs" were created when the level cap was 50 and if you couldnt kill something with 1 75 that you could kill with 6 or even 18 50's then you probably fail at being a 75

Dire extremes should not be counted when you bring up progression. Any 18 doofuses with 9 kraken clubs and feint could assfuck B2 with a chainspell stun. While impressive, that's not progression.

I was pretty hyped for salvage too, making the conservative yet hopeful prediction that 1.5 months per personal piece upgrade wouldnt be too bad (7.5 months for all 5, I'd say that's a fair amount of time put in for the reward). And yet just yesterday or 2-3 days ago I see the first screenshot of a completed piece.

[Sasarai]

We're playing FFXI, we're not playing a slot machine. When we kill JoL, we don't want a "Chance" for AV, and when AV pops, we don't want a AV that one day is good and killable, and one day is impossible.

When chance becomes involved in the difficulty of the game, ala, Cells dropping in Salvage, people use it as a scapegoat to complain because they have problems doing it. On the other hand, if all cells dropped 100% and there was no chance in Salvage at all, people would complain within a few weeks it was too easy and be bored of it.

Not saying I disagree with everything you and Ryko say, but seriously, sometimes its very very hard to see how those who whine could ever be satisfied with the way the game is now. Blaming "chance" for the problems of FFXI is just stupid though, seeing as you know, every single game that has ever been popular with those apart from the "brains of a rodent" gamer group, uses it in similar veins.

[NynJa]

One can argue that progression can be measured in the context of how once impossible HNMs (from Serket to the COP wyrms and now even to Bahamut v2) are being downed in either mere minutes or by extremely small groups.

Kraken zerging isnt 'downing' anything buddy.

[Jeryhn]

We're playing FFXI, we're not playing a slot machine. When we kill JoL, we don't want a "Chance" for AV, and when AV pops, we don't want a AV that one day is good and killable, and one day is impossible.

When chance becomes involved in the difficulty of the game, ala, Cells dropping in Salvage, people use it as a scapegoat to complain because they have problems doing it. On the other hand, if all cells dropped 100% and there was no chance in Salvage at all, people would complain within a few weeks it was too easy and be bored of it.

No, people would still do it because of Salvage armor. He didn't ask for a 100% drop rate on armor, he wants an improved drop rate on cells so he actually try to get it.

Overall, Salvage is a nice idea in concept, but look at the Salvage board - there's all kinds of buggy shit going on, and we can't even fight all of the bosses yet.

[Priran]

Just a note, it says we can store "Relic-level" armor. That could mean sets like Blessed, Sha'ir, etc. not the actual relic armor.

Blessed is a 4-item set.

Also I don't really remember SE ever saying "relic" and not meaning AF2.

[Jeryhn]

Blessed is a 4-item set.

There are 4-item sets that can be stored (RSE comes to mind).

Also I don't really remember SE ever saying "relic" and not meaning AF2.

I agree, it's probably going to involve relic armor from dynamis. It probably won't include the accessories in the same way that storing artifacts doesn't require you to carry the weapon as part of the set.

More importantly, they're doing something with relic armor. Maybe the new jobs will finally get it?

[Septimus]

We're playing FFXI, we're not playing a slot machine. When we kill JoL, we don't want a "Chance" for AV, and when AV pops, we don't want a AV that one day is good and killable, and one day is impossible.

When chance becomes involved in the difficulty of the game, ala, Cells dropping in Salvage, people use it as a scapegoat to complain because they have problems doing it. On the other hand, if all cells dropped 100% and there was no chance in Salvage at all, people would complain within a few weeks it was too easy and be bored of it.

Not saying I disagree with everything you and Ryko say, but seriously, sometimes its very very hard to see how those who whine could ever be satisfied with the way the game is now. Blaming "chance" for the problems of FFXI is just stupid though, seeing as you know, every single game that has ever been popular with those apart from the "brains of a rodent" gamer group, uses it in similar veins.

Just like people are bored with Dynamis and Limbus? They really need to change how cells drop in Salvage, but that is for another topic...

[divisortheory]

I was pretty hyped for salvage too, making the conservative yet hopeful prediction that 1.5 months per personal piece upgrade wouldnt be too bad (7.5 months for all 5, I'd say that's a fair amount of time put in for the reward). And yet just yesterday or 2-3 days ago I see the first screenshot of a completed piece.

In 4-5 months (even with no update to reduce the difficulty) I think there will be shells producing completed pieces at a rate of about 1-2 per month, assuming people stick with it long enough to figure out all the stupid intricacies.

With a slight nerf to Arrapago and Zhayolm in terms of drop rate an enemy gayness (Silver Sea is probably fine IMO), I think shells will be knocking out completed pieces at a rate of about 4-5 per month. Keeping in mind, of course, that you get multiple pieces per run.

[Toth]

Remember when Jorm was a bitch to kill? Now groups of 6 and 12 can take him down in a reasonable period of time. Alot of what made these things possible are newer adjustments and from relics (the ultimate progression in a way).

[Jeryhn]

Remember when Jorm was a bitch to kill? Now groups of 6 and 12 can take him down in a reasonable period of time. Alot of what made these things possible are newer adjustments and from relics (the ultimate progression in a way).

That's not "progression", that's the equivalent of "leveling up".

That's like saying needing a party to kill a Goblin Smithy at lv25, and then being able to kill one solo at 50, is "progression".

[divisortheory]

m not usually pessimistic about these things but I have to admit, when I read these latest update details I was like "That's it?"...

Do you usually follow SE update details for these types of things? The first announcements are always gay. Always. Most of the time it's shit people never even imagined, and this time the gay announcements so far have even owned (relic storage, etc). Sorry, but if these are the gay announcements, I'm looking forward to the good ones.

That's not "progression", that's the equivalent of "leveling up".

So levelling up is not progression?

[Suiram]

I was pretty hyped for salvage too, making the conservative yet hopeful prediction that 1.5 months per personal piece upgrade wouldnt be too bad (7.5 months for all 5, I'd say that's a fair amount of time put in for the reward). And yet just yesterday or 2-3 days ago I see the first screenshot of a completed piece.

That has less to do with the actual chances of getting the items from their respective zones, and more to do with the fact that the 2-3 months it's been out we've gone from having 0 understanding of the zones and their drops to about a 40% or 50% understanding. If someone came back in a couple months and started Salvage then, after we (presumably at that point) have a full understanding of all 4 zones to where any knowledgeable and skilled group of the appropriate size/job combination can accomplish what they'd set out to do before they entered, then I don't think 7-8 months for a full set is unrealistic for someone who goes 3-4 times a week, provided they can get the Imp. Gold pieces and Synth Materials as well.

[Lordwafik]

Just a note, it says we can store "Relic-level" armor. That could mean sets like Blessed, Sha'ir, etc. not the actual relic armor.

Blessed is a 4-item set.

Also I don't really remember SE ever saying "relic" and not meaning AF2.

RSE is 4 item too and goes in np


Anyway

When chance becomes involved in the difficulty of the game, ala, Cells dropping in Salvage, people use it as a scapegoat to complain because they have problems doing it. On the other hand, if all cells dropped 100% and there was no chance in Salvage at all, people would complain within a few weeks it was too easy and be bored of it.

Scapegoat? Hardly. Do Bhaflau, you'll see it's perfect. NOBODY is complaining about Bhaflau, nobody! Why? Breakdown :

Go in, get specific good cells with a high drop%, even fighting monsters that are 100% drop on cells, then go to the boss if you are aiming for the boss, and then kill him. Maybe have another objective and go for ramparts and fight those instead.

Now go to arrapago with your bhaflau team, sorry, go with only 1 monk and see how fun that zone is! Take a rdm without phalanx2, while you're at it. Hell, tell me when you have a group outside of MNK MNK MNK THF BRD RDM , PUP MNK RDM RDM WHM BRD making it to the 6th floor, then I'll stand back and say I was using it as a scapegoat. In it's current state it's almost AV like.

I'm hoping it gets patched. SE being a Japanese company, refuses to admit when it's wrong (which is why Dynamis/Limbus updates never make it to update notes, they get ninja'd in), they have too much pride in that, so I'm hoping Salvage gets ninja'd this update.

[Ryko]

Remember when Jorm was a bitch to kill? Now groups of 6 and 12 can take him down in a reasonable period of time. Alot of what made these things possible are newer adjustments and from relics (the ultimate progression in a way).

That's not "progression", that's the equivalent of "leveling up".

That's like saying needing a party to kill a Goblin Smithy at lv25, and then being able to kill one solo at 50, is "progression".

Nevermind the fact that between then and now not a thing has changed in terms of gear and merit availability that would effectively make that fight any different aside from a 4 enmity sword. You could complete an aegis, relic horn and get a valor surcoat back when jorm was a "big deal" too... (ok not entirely true, ethereal got added )

[aurik]

For everyone who is already bitching (especially about changes that haven't been announced) do recall that they don't announce all the changes at once.

I think it's highly likely they will ninja-edit Salvage somehow. Make the lv35 armor higher drop rate, make the cell drop rate less random, make the real challenge of completing a set killing the megaboss of a zone rather than repeatedly clearing floor 1 hoping to spawn mad bomber so you can maybe spawn a gate widow and possibly get the 20% drop.

Yay @ storing relic set. Hopefully they will add storage options for Yigit/Amir/Paluwahn, then I will have 5 extra slots at all times. Now I just struggle with the size of my active inventory on blm (currently pushing 50/60).