Naruto

[Seha]

I don't see how Sasuke's plan is supposed to work unless he wants to unite the ninja world by being the villain that everyone is working to defeat for the rest of his life (which isn't the same thing as becoming Hokage.)

Sasuke will become Batman. Become the villain to be the hero the ninja world needs!

[dejet]

Why did he just help stop madra again, is that not just what he was going to do sorta? Lol

[Abandon]

actually, i dont see why people are shocked at all. sasuke said back when they summoned the kage that he wanted to do something with teh bijuu. if anything, that nigga has been consistent when it comes to doing what he said hes gonna do.

[Abandon]

although i will say when kurama begged naruto to help, i cried a tear of redbull and vodka

[Fwahm]

Dictatorships do actually sometimes work when it comes to uniting a collection of nations. Look at Germany, which was a collection of tiny nations like Prussia until Otto von Bismarck united them, or Italy in the same century. The dictatorships themselves don't last forever, but even if the government is changed to a democracy or a limited monarchy, the unification is unlikely to be undone, at least for a long time.

Sasuke's plan could actually work in terms of uniting the villages and reducing wars between them,.

[ronin sparthos]

Dictatorships do actually sometimes work when it comes to uniting a collection of nations. Look at Germany, which was a collection of tiny nations like Prussia until Otto von Bismarck united them, or Italy in the same century. The dictatorships themselves don't last forever, but even if the government is changed to a democracy or a limited monarchy, the unification is unlikely to be undone, at least for a long time.

Sasuke's plan could actually work in terms of uniting the villages and reducing wars between them,.

Except there's no need for a dictatorship when the Kage have already had change of hearts regarding their neighboring nations. This entire war has already setup a post-Madara world where at the least the nations are willing to engage in something approaching peace. It won't be Naruto's grand vision of peace but he's power of friendship'd enough major players to make a difference.

Sauce's dictatorship is essentially the path to more meaningless bloodshed and a repeat of Madara but this time in the real world.

[ronin sparthos]

Why did he just help stop madra again, is that not just what he was going to do sorta? Lol

Madara wanted to dreamworld everyone but Sauces vision is more uniting all the nations under one rule, his rule. Eliminate the bijuu WMDs, eliminate Naruto and anyone else that could stand to oppose him.

[dejet]

He wants to be north Korea lol

[Fwahm]

Except there's no need for a dictatorship when the Kage have already had change of hearts regarding their neighboring nations. This entire war has already setup a post-Madara world where at the least the nations are willing to engage in something approaching peace. It won't be Naruto's grand vision of peace but he's power of friendship'd enough major players to make a difference.

Sauce's dictatorship is essentially the path to more meaningless bloodshed and a repeat of Madara but this time in the real world.

Sasuke doesn't believe in people changing just like that, and honestly, if this wasn't an idealistic shonen, I wouldn't either. Not to mention that as soon as other people take over, people that haven't been JnJ'd by Naruto, they could easily hate and distrust each other again.

Plus, IIRC, Sasuke never really interacted with the Kages in this arc. The last time he saw them, they were still bickering like crazy at the Kage Summit, and barely even managed to cooperate in the face of total annihilation. He hasn't seen them post JnJ.

[Eurell]

He never saw them bickering lol. He saw them kicking his ass.

But basically, Sasuke has been out of the picture, has no idea what Naruto has done to change the ninja world, but wants to come in and start murdering anyway? Even before this war started, what could you ever blame on Gaara (in his post Naruto role or Kazekage) or Tsunade. Shit, even the current Mizukage seemed pretty peaceful.

[ronin sparthos]

Sasuke doesn't believe in people changing just like that, and honestly, if this wasn't an idealistic shonen, I wouldn't either. Not to mention that as soon as other people take over, people that haven't been JnJ'd by Naruto, they could easily hate and distrust each other again.

Plus, IIRC, Sasuke never really interacted with the Kages in this arc. The last time he saw them, they were still bickering like crazy at the Kage Summit, and barely even managed to cooperate in the face of total annihilation. He hasn't seen them post JnJ.

So nations that were once hostile/at war with eachother can't come to cooperate after a decisive event? We're reading a Japanese manga in the United States. QED.

They'll always be that chance that things might go sideways again in the real world or the Narutoverse but at this point in the time the Kages are leaning towards mutual cooperation in a post-war/bijuu world. Even old man Tsuchikage, the most distrusting 'old hat' kage has come to respect his fellow leaders.

[Fwahm]

They can cooperate, but they can also regress and become warlike again. Once Naruto's savior effects wear off, all it takes is another Danzo, or 5th Tsuchikage, or whatever to start it all up again. If there was only a single large nation, it would likely take longer for regression to happen. Look at our current relationship with Russia, for example; after the cold war ended, we were decent allies with them, but now Russia is at odds with tons of people over Ukraine. Personally, I believe uniting the world would make such things much less likely in real life as well, though it'd be harder in real life than in the Narutoverse because of much more varied religion, culture, and languages than the mostly unicultural Narutoverse.

Sasuke isn't blaming the current Kages specifically. He's blaming the 5 nation system, and to get rid of that, killing off the current Kages is a necessary sacrifice.

[ronin sparthos]

They can cooperate, but they can also regress and become warlike again. Once Naruto's savior effects wear off, all it takes is another Danzo, or 5th Tsuchikage, or whatever to start it all up again. If there was only a single large nation, it would likely take longer for regression to happen. Look at our current relationship with Russia, for example; after the cold war ended, we were decent allies with them, but now Russia is at odds with tons of people over Ukraine. Personally, I believe uniting the world would make such things much less likely in real life as well, though it'd be harder in real life than in the Narutoverse because of much more varied religion, culture, and languages than the mostly unicultural Narutoverse.

Sasuke isn't blaming the current Kages specifically. He's blaming the 5 nation system, and to get rid of that, killing off the current Kages is a necessary sacrifice.

Where these nations go isn't up to Naruto or Sauce. Only that the ball has been set in motion for an unprecedented era of ninja peace. Sasuke has done nothing but taken power given to him to stir up shit. Naruto has used his power to talk and fight his way to his ideals and he's won over major players. Perhaps in due time that mutual cooperation would result in one country.

Dictatorships are just as likely to collapse as alliances. Within the bounds of this manga the current leaders are all committed to mutual cooperation and loyalty to Naruto's ideals thanks to a great war. Sasuke since he left Konoha is a criminal and an outlaw claiming to bring about revolution by unsurprisingly violent means. No one respects him from the lowest fodder up to the kages. Naruto was shielding fodder nin while fighting against the big bad for crying out loud.

Why would anyone pledge loyalty to Sauce? If you assume he destroys the bijuu, kage and Naruto he'll immediately draw the ire of everyone in this universe. He's gone full Madara and then some.

[Fwahm]

Sasuke doesn't need to be loved in order to try his fix of the system. He can kill the Kages, the symbols of the 5 nation system, combine the nations, and no one can stop him if Naruto is gone. By the time he dies of old age or sickness or getting rusty and being assassinated, the 5 nation system will already be gone, and the people can put up another ruler who would be more respected by the populace. They're unlikely to go back to the 5 nation system once Sasuke has destroyed the infrastructure and it's been quite a few decades.

The only logical problem I see is how he plans on killing the Bijuu. I mean, it was established that if a Bijuu was killed, its chakra will reform and rebirth it a few years later. I'm kind of confused on that point.

[Salodin]

He isn't killing them afawk, he is sealing them. If anything, it looks like the planet might get 9 new mini moons.

[Fwahm]

He said in this chapter that he plans to destroy them when the time comes. He's just storing them away right now while he battles Naruto.

[ronin sparthos]

That doesn't get rid of the cycle of hatred. Or the ninja nations system. At least Nagato, Madara and Kaguya had the sense to strip everyone of their free will via Tsukiyomi to create their ideal, static worlds.

As it stands, Sauce is merely a usurper utilizing Machiavellian might makes right with loose trappings of saving the world from itself. Without the bijuu he can't Tsukiyomi the joint as a last resort, without the support of the people he'd plunge the world into war again and his ideal has a worse chance of reforming shit than Naruto and the Kages.

At least Naruto has savior status and the peace fostered by the Kage would go quite a distance to break down the hatred the nations had of eachother.

[Xno Kappa]

Sasuke doesn't need to be loved in order to try his fix of the system. He can kill the Kages, the symbols of the 5 nation system, combine the nations, and no one can stop him if Naruto is gone. By the time he dies of old age or sickness or getting rusty and being assassinated, the 5 nation system will already be gone, and the people can put up another ruler who would be more respected by the populace. They're unlikely to go back to the 5 nation system once Sasuke has destroyed the infrastructure and it's been quite a few decades.

You act as if there would be no resentment towards Sasuke for implementing such a system, the cycle of hatred will still be there. People aren't going to just spontaneously forget about the Kages and Naruto. These are individuals those nations love dearly. Unless you're trying to suggest some dumb ass Code Geass-style ending here, Sasuke's decision is completely devoid of any accomplishment towards the greater peace already established throughout this war.

In short, he's better off dead for the good of the ninja world. It will be the most gratifying death in any form of entertainment history, dare I say surpassing Lori Grimes.

[Fwahm]

Of course there will be resentment towards Sasuke for killing Naruto and the Kages. They'll use it to ferment (doomed to fail) rebellions until they give up, and after Sasuke is gone, they'll mourn them. However, the system will still be gone, and will have a new leader that won't be as hated, and can bring the new one nation system further peacefully. They won't be able to easily go back to the old system because Sasuke will probably have eradicated almost all structural traces of it, and it'll be almost a century later. There might be ties to their old nations (people forming circles of only their own former nations, and things like that), but the bloodshed that comes from that will be infinitely preferable to the hundreds of thousands of deaths that actual war between nations can and does cause.

[ronin sparthos]

And why can't we make the same assumptions about Naruto and the Kage?

Flash forward a hundred years and thanks to the mutual cooperation of the now dead Kage, the ninja world has shifted over to a unified, singular nation with a ceremonial position in honor of the hero who played the greatest part in unification. No one alive remembers or cares about those great ninja wars except in textbooks. Naruto is gone but his ideal of a world without hatred lives on in the country he helped found.

Roll credits.