Naruto

[Kiro]

I FUCKING TOLD YOU!

Spoiler: show

Edit: Goddamnit Sasuke's insane amounts of emo even made Gaara cry? What the fuck is this shit.

[Shuvo]

Spoiler: show

Sigh. It was too much to hope Sasuke gets taught a lesson in humility.

[Tymon]

Spoiler: show

They're making these guys seem way too powerful, compared to some of the other villains recently.

Pain had enough power to easily decimate the most powerful ninja village in the world at the time and completely dominate every active ninja there at the time, including Kakashi who's supposed to be one of the most powerful living ninja

Yet, these guys, the leader of a village that is tiny compared to konoha is able to put up such a ridiculous show. Same thing with Gaara and Sasuke.

I really want to know how they match up. I mean, by the logic of Naruto's fight with Pain, he should be able to keep up with any of these guys in sage mode. But, is that realistic? if he can't, it implies that any one of them is stronger than pain, who is made out to be the far and away the strongest villain in the series even to this point..

[Draggy]

uuuuuuuuurgh sasukeeeeeeeeeeee

i dont really have anything else to add right now

[Hitoshura]

So I hear they actually did Kakashi Gaiden for the Shippuden series, is it worth watching?

[killerx]

So I hear they actually did Kakashi Gaiden for the Shippuden series, is it worth watching?

yes

[arus2001]

Spoiler: show

They're making these guys seem way too powerful, compared to some of the other villains recently.

Pain had enough power to easily decimate the most powerful ninja village in the world at the time and completely dominate every active ninja there at the time, including Kakashi who's supposed to be one of the most powerful living ninja

Yet, these guys, the leader of a village that is tiny compared to konoha is able to put up such a ridiculous show. Same thing with Gaara and Sasuke.

I really want to know how they match up. I mean, by the logic of Naruto's fight with Pain, he should be able to keep up with any of these guys in sage mode. But, is that realistic? if he can't, it implies that any one of them is stronger than pain, who is made out to be the far and away the strongest villain in the series even to this point..

Don't really think this needs spoilered, but whatever...

Spoiler: show

On one hand, I think some people were overselling Pain's abilities (His biggest strength was probably the secret Jiraiya managed to leak). On the other, I think some keep underselling Sasuke just because he is who he is, and compared to Naruto, we haven't seen as much of his development to justify his tribulations against trials. Classic case of manga being a restrictive medium, really.

Anyway, I'll also say the overselling has gone on for the Raikage, Killer Bee, and probably even Gaara. The whole "kage level" line of reason for gauging power is flawed. There's a political and social aspect to it, too, and Raikage strikes me as the kind of guy who's more about the iron fist than caring about his village like the Third or probably even Tsunade has come to. Orochimaru sought mastery of all jutsu, including forbidden ones, while the Third had a solid grasp on many he was probably behind Oro in that department. Raikage probably sucks in jutsu aside from manipulating his chakra for the lightning shield and such. In the end, he's probably a Guy+1 with a shitty attitude to boot.

As for Kakashi, we know his endurance sucks and his tactical expertise, while good, is lesser than someone like Shikamaru. His appeal for being Hokage likely isn't so much for his strength, but more for that social side. People like him. He gave his life, albeit briefly, to protect the village from Pain and get the others info on the gravity body. Sadly, we get Danzou fucking with his spotlight from the political angle and a literal plot-no-jutsu with some magic fucking eyeball with mind control powers. At least Sasuke's twinking has a valid source with Amaterasu and Susanoo coming from Itachi and Oro even claiming to want them for himself after spending time with him in Akatsuki.

Anyway, I guess my point has been that strengths the various characters have displayed come with weaknesses. A lot of stuff probably seems awesome because we haven't seen it before in the Narutoverse. Contrary to what people may believe, Sasuke does have his own and has been put to the limit. His trump cards have just been more diverse than Naruto's falling back on the fox. I dare say they've even more ninja-y than Naruto.

[Kobb]

Don't really think this needs spoilered, but whatever...

Spoiler: show

On one hand, I think some people were overselling Pain's abilities (His biggest strength was probably the secret Jiraiya managed to leak). On the other, I think some keep underselling Sasuke just because he is who he is, and compared to Naruto, we haven't seen as much of his development to justify his tribulations against trials. Classic case of manga being a restrictive medium, really.

Anyway, I'll also say the overselling has gone on for the Raikage, Killer Bee, and probably even Gaara. The whole "kage level" line of reason for gauging power is flawed. There's a political and social aspect to it, too, and Raikage strikes me as the kind of guy who's more about the iron fist than caring about his village like the Third or probably even Tsunade has come to. Orochimaru sought mastery of all jutsu, including forbidden ones, while the Third had a solid grasp on many he was probably behind Oro in that department. Raikage probably sucks in jutsu aside from manipulating his chakra for the lightning shield and such. In the end, he's probably a Guy+1 with a shitty attitude to boot.

As for Kakashi, we know his endurance sucks and his tactical expertise, while good, is lesser than someone like Shikamaru. His appeal for being Hokage likely isn't so much for his strength, but more for that social side. People like him. He gave his life, albeit briefly, to protect the village from Pain and get the others info on the gravity body. Sadly, we get Danzou fucking with his spotlight from the political angle and a literal plot-no-jutsu with some magic fucking eyeball with mind control powers. At least Sasuke's twinking has a valid source with Amaterasu and Susanoo coming from Itachi and Oro even claiming to want them for himself after spending time with him in Akatsuki.

Anyway, I guess my point has been that strengths the various characters have displayed come with weaknesses. A lot of stuff probably seems awesome because we haven't seen it before in the Narutoverse. Contrary to what people may believe, Sasuke does have his own and has been put to the limit. His trump cards have just been more diverse than Naruto's falling back on the fox. I dare say they've even more ninja-y than Naruto.

Actually, Kakashi is thought of as better than the other ninja's in their specialties.

Spoiler: show

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0224732/13.jpg

And I don't know, Sasuke's fights have had some tactical elements behind it, but Naruto's fight vs Pain makes me think he may be on par or more than Sasuke or Kakashi.

[Kiro]

I wonder why he has a stronger sense of smell than Kiba. Probably that dog pact thing he has.

[aru]

I wonder why he has a stronger sense of smell than Kiba. Probably that dog pact thing he has.

Just because Naruto said it doesn't make it true. I don't think a single one of those comparisons holds true (maybe Lee, I don't think we've seen how far he's progressed). Especially at that point in the story, isn't that just after the time-skip? Naruto was comparing Kakashi to when they were younger.

[Vajra]

I wonder why he has a stronger sense of smell than Kiba. Probably that dog pact thing he has.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a5/Vajra000/14-1.jpg

[Serif]

I want to see Lee fight some one

Lee vs Kisame, yes please

[orson]

Kakashi is a "dog" ninja exactly like Kiba just not from their clan, it is mentioned briefly I can't remember when but I distinctly remember it. Since his father was ostracized we don't really know what clan Kakashi was from but it's believable that he might share the same ancestry as Kiba.

As for what Naruto says about Kakashi it's hard to say but there seem to be some conflicting things later on. Namely that Kiba is able to catch Sasuke's scent before Kakashi but this just might be power creep Kiba may just be catching up to Kakashi. Also Sasuke having a stronger sharigan is debatable the basic sharigan discounting special abilities could be true and even then it's hard to know what would win out Kakashi's space time warp or Sasuke's amaterasu/susanoo (nothing indicates that Sasuke obtained the sword/shield Itachi had.) Either way Kakashi isn't as strong or as fast as Naruto so he'd probably be overpowered by him unless he could out smart him but even then Naruto has become scary good at figuring out his opponents weaknesses with kage bunshin. Apart from Tobi, Naruto has easily been shown as the strongest and fastest ninja introduced at this time but Kakashi I think would still would be able to fight Sasuke unless he wasn't able to beat the genjutsu (honestly though I think Itachi was the stronger genjutsu user Sasuke's seems to be broken a lot easier.)

To sit there and say Kages aren't at an incredibly high combat/power level is foolish. There's nothing to indicate otherwise that Kages aren't ridiculously strong. I know people hate on Tsunade but she is really strong; massive healing ability, major smns, monstrous strength, and who knows what other jutsu she knows. The fact she really didn't do much in the Kohona vs Pain battle was simply she had to stay in a safe place and coordinate the battle. Also vs God realm most likely anyone but Naruto would (and did) get decimated.

[Vajra]

I want to see Lee fight some one

Lee vs Kisame, yes please

Sorry, Kisame is busy looking for Killerbee, but who's to say someone won't help Killerbee HMMM, DAINAMIKKU ENTORII!!!

Spoiler: show

Dynamic Entry is the English Translation of course

[Tetrarien]

Just because Naruto said it doesn't make it true. I don't think a single one of those comparisons holds true (maybe Lee, I don't think we've seen how far he's progressed). Especially at that point in the story, isn't that just after the time-skip? Naruto was comparing Kakashi to when they were younger.

This. At that point Naruto hasn't even met up with the others, or at the very least has no idea how much they've progressed. He's comparing Kakashi only to what he knows, which would be from before the time-skip. For instance, Kakashi even mentions later on how amazed he is at Kiba's sense of smell when they're all tracking Sasuke.

And Arus put it nicely as to the whole "kage-level" thing. I've never taken being a kage as meaning that you're the absolute strongest in fighting. This is true in some cases (most likely Minato and Raikage), but in other cases it may be being the most versatile (the 3rd), being very well-known (Kakashi, though he is also a tactical expert and extremely strong, though he can't really fight for long), having one particular talent that makes you a prime candidate (Tsunade for being a sannin and for her advanced medical jutsu), etc etc.

[orson]

Again I totally disagree, the Kage should with in reason be the strongest or close to the strongest person in the village. You can't provide an example where this isn't the case. The 3rd was incredibly strong also far stronger than anything in the village at the time. He fought Oro, the 1st, and 2nd hokage and essentially came out victorious. To say that he was just versatile is somewhat naive since he was given the title god of ninjas at one time. I fielded the Tsunade thing.

Kages need to be incredibly formidable and have political approval.

[Tetrarien]

I never said that a kage did not have to be formidable. Just that they don't necessarily have to be the absolute strongest in their village. If that were the case, Naruto would most likely be the hokage right now.

For example, if your strongest ninja is an absolute dumbass that has no grasp of the social and/or political aspects of the job, then he/she shouldn't and most likely won't be the hokage. Now I'm in no way saying he's a dumbass, but the reason everyone so far has said that Naruto is not ready for the job is because he still lacks in those areas somewhat.

As for the 3rd, I just mentioned his versatility because that was his strongest point seeing as he knew all of the village's jutsu. That doesn't mean I don't consider him strong.

[Shuvo]

They're making these guys seem way too powerful, compared to some of the other villains recently.

Pain had enough power to easily decimate the most powerful ninja village in the world at the time and completely dominate every active ninja there at the time, including Kakashi who's supposed to be one of the most powerful living ninja

Yet, these guys, the leader of a village that is tiny compared to konoha is able to put up such a ridiculous show. Same thing with Gaara and Sasuke.

I really want to know how they match up. I mean, by the logic of Naruto's fight with Pain, he should be able to keep up with any of these guys in sage mode. But, is that realistic? if he can't, it implies that any one of them is stronger than pain, who is made out to be the far and away the strongest villain in the series even to this point..

Well, at the Kage meeting the old guy mentioned that the thunder village were gathering too much strength which is what forced all the other villages to rely on Akutsuki. So its understandable to show them as being overpowered. They'd either be the strongest or 2nd strongest village by now.

I don't think Konoha was the strongest village anymore anyway - with the Uchiha clan massacred, 3rd dead, jiraiya/orochimaru dead, white fang dead.. All they really have now is kakashi and Naruto (basing this on the people who could actually do well fighting Pein).

[Ratatapa]

inc SSJ3 sharingan

[orson]

I never said that a kage did not have to be formidable. Just that they don't necessarily have to be the absolute strongest in their village. If that were the case, Naruto would most likely be the hokage right now.

For example, if your strongest ninja is an absolute dumbass that has no grasp of the social and/or political aspects of the job, then he/she shouldn't and most likely won't be the hokage. Now I'm in no way saying he's a dumbass, but the reason everyone so far has said that Naruto is not ready for the job is because he still lacks in those areas somewhat.

As for the 3rd, I just mentioned his versatility because that was his strongest point seeing as he knew all of the village's jutsu. That doesn't mean I don't consider him strong.

The power of a Kage has been a standard when they a measure power for a great deal of the manga. The problem is like most mangas that go on and on the power creep really destroys the earlier established levels. Naruto and Sasuke in my opinion are very unique in how powerful they really are. To obtain so much power so quickly was literally unheard of. Also being that most powerful ninja in the village could easily land you as a Kage. It seems Raikage is a prime example of this, he's not politically correct. Hell even Danzo like used "power" to convince the lords to appoint him. It seems likely there are any multitude of ways to become Kage, Danzo and Sarutobi being the strongest at the time fought each other for the position. I don't how you can say that Kage shouldn't always be the strongest unless it's an obvious defect like Naruto where he's far too immature. I do agree that that there are slight differences in power due to technique between Kages but I still think it's apt to use the term Kage level as a measuring factor.