Naruto

[Ivaden]

Oh, yeah, I completely agree in thinking Naruto wouldn't be the one doing them. At this point the focus of the manga is on characters who are well beyond it, but it'd be nice to see them used again at some point. Well, really more specifically, fights that took place that required some finesse and tactics rather than biggest attack wins. Naruto's good for it with some of his fights, but at this point, why would he even bother? lol

[Vajra]

No spoilers this week because there's no chapter this week according to manga sites... WHY!

[Lucavi]

lol @ hand-seals being seen ever again. It would be nice to see a comeback, but at the pace fights are running at and the necessity to use powerful moves I don't see it becoming a possibility. Naruto's moving so fast now that if his opponent tries, they won't make it halfway through the motions before Naruto 'teleports' over to cave their head in. As for Naruto himself doing the seals, I just don't really see that happening. It doesn't fit his fighting style imo. Has he ever done a technique that required him to do them (other than his single-seal clones)? I think he really is in a league of his own now and can go completely without them.

Even if kishi forgets about them in the manga, we saw a healthy smattering of them in the filler for the pain fight in the anime, which was refreshing.

I always question what it must be like to be an author. You literally have the world at your fingertips; you can make any spell or control any element or do anything, and you go back and just resort to people punching one another, or, in the case of bleach, you go back to people slashing at eachother, the other vanishing or getting "hit", then a still shot of blood spurting out of your chest/shoulder.

Why?! People LIKE magic! People LIKE fire and lighting and water and ice. Where's the fucking hyoton jutsu? When's the last time we've seen someone bust out some fucking ice. Root someone's feet to the ground then dynamic entry. Freeze the moisture in someone's lungs or some shit.

There are so many better ways of beating someone up or killing them than simply punching them or hitting em with a Rasengan. Now, I'll admit, for larger targets like the Kyuubi, yeah, you want rasengan, but I shouldn't ever see anyone hitting a fodder nin or even a standard nin with a rasengan. Use. Fucking. Jutsu.

[Furoris]

Even if kishi forgets about them in the manga, we saw a healthy smattering of them in the filler for the pain fight in the anime, which was refreshing.

I always question what it must be like to be an author. You literally have the world at your fingertips; you can make any spell or control any element or do anything, and you go back and just resort to people punching one another, or, in the case of bleach, you go back to people slashing at eachother, the other vanishing or getting "hit", then a still shot of blood spurting out of your chest/shoulder.

Why?! People LIKE magic! People LIKE fire and lighting and water and ice. Where's the fucking hyoton jutsu? When's the last time we've seen someone bust out some fucking ice. Root someone's feet to the ground then dynamic entry. Freeze the moisture in someone's lungs or some shit.

There are so many better ways of beating someone up or killing them than simply punching them or hitting em with a Rasengan. Now, I'll admit, for larger targets like the Kyuubi, yeah, you want rasengan, but I shouldn't ever see anyone hitting a fodder nin or even a standard nin with a rasengan. Use. Fucking. Jutsu.

I know there was just a huge deal made about using FF in this thread, but just take the percentage of melee DD onry vs # of BLMs with no other DD and it will clearly illustrate why they still use melee in manga.

If that wasn't clear enough it is because more people like melee then magic. Personally I like having both mixed together but meh.

[Souj]

I know there was just a huge deal made about using FF in this thread, but just take the percentage of melee DD onry vs # of BLMs with no other DD and it will clearly illustrate why they still use melee in manga.

If that wasn't clear enough it is because more people like melee then magic. Personally I like having both mixed together but meh.

what the fuck are you talking about?

[Lucavi]

I think he means that people enjoy fisticuffs and physical combat as a whole more than ranged, "magical" combat.

While I don't exactly agree with that statement, I will say that I believe that some of these authors perhaps believe that. Some of my favorite fights were strategy fights involving Shika. I love tactical fights, but if this is a shonen manga aimed at little kids, and we adults just tag along for the ride, maybe its no surprise.

Personally I just think that DBZ fucked it up for everyone, as awesome as it was. DB had a lot of "non-brawling" in it, especially at the tournaments. DBZ just had punching and beams until someone fell down, blew up, or disintegrated. I think we're (as a collective manga unit) still feeling the aftershocks of that - at least this type of manga.

[arus2001]

On some level, I think it's easier to stomach taking a punch to the face and getting up with a bloody nose than it is a laser beam, too. In the latter case, it kinda makes you wonder if it's just like a 1000w spotlight just kinda cooking them for a second. Another problem with magical fights is too often the evasion is outright (I'm too quick for you, haha~) or we get the giant explosion/cloud of smoke just for the target to walk out like nothing happened. Sometimes they explain how they survived/dodged. Sometimes they don't and we're just left to assume they're zomgstrong.

If I had a preference, it would be a mix of magical and martial styles. It's just a juggling act deciding if the attacker is balanced or skewed one way, while whether or not the target's leanings lend to a legitimate defense or counter. This is definitely where plotkai or plot-no-jutsu can hurt a fight, but it also kind of leans to my dislike of high-powered fights eventually taking to the sky. When you eliminate the environment entirely from the battle, it can put a too much focus on the fighters' literal skills whereas brains could lead to a lesser fighter's victory.

[kuronosan]

I know there was just a huge deal made about using FF in this thread, but just take the percentage of melee DD onry vs # of BLMs with no other DD and it will clearly illustrate why they still use melee in manga.

If that wasn't clear enough it is because more people like melee then magic. Personally I like having both mixed together but meh.

If I'm getting your terrible analogy right, this is probably more like what you meant:

People like watching SAMs and WARs lay waste to shit, nobody wants to see a BLM-onry fight where everyone spams Comet just to win, they would much rather see skillchain spams with the occasional magic burst.

Unfortunately, since DBZ and Bleach have pretty much set that tone of "One large attack is better" instead of actually using some sort of strategy and planning in fights (see Urahara as to how Bleach fights should fucking go) to cause a progressive finish leading up to the final climactic attack, you will never see something substantial in stories.

In short, as much as we'd all like to see BLMs spamming tier-IV ga spells on magic bursting after a nice skillchain on the right day with the right element, SE would much rather let shit just be one big 5000-damage SA+Kaiten every time.

[Rhyis.]

Harry Potter.

[Lucavi]

On some level, I think it's easier to stomach taking a punch to the face and getting up with a bloody nose than it is a laser beam, too. In the latter case, it kinda makes you wonder if it's just like a 1000w spotlight just kinda cooking them for a second. Another problem with magical fights is too often the evasion is outright (I'm too quick for you, haha~) or we get the giant explosion/cloud of smoke just for the target to walk out like nothing happened. Sometimes they explain how they survived/dodged. Sometimes they don't and we're just left to assume they're zomgstrong.

If I had a preference, it would be a mix of magical and martial styles. It's just a juggling act deciding if the attacker is balanced or skewed one way, while whether or not the target's leanings lend to a legitimate defense or counter. This is definitely where plotkai or plot-no-jutsu can hurt a fight, but it also kind of leans to my dislike of high-powered fights eventually taking to the sky. When you eliminate the environment entirely from the battle, it can put a too much focus on the fighters' literal skills whereas brains could lead to a lesser fighter's victory.

The Zabuza fight had ninjutsu. There were no massive DBZ/Bleach explosives. There was no smoke cloud that Zabuza ran though saying "YOU MISSED!" There was a bit of fire, a lot of water, some ice, some mist, and summons with dogs. It was a great display of ninjutsu.

I can't count bleach in terms of "magic", because even their "magic" always blows shit up. A low level kido spell EXPLODES when it hits something. Red shot of flame literally blows up on contact - its more of an explosive charge than a stream or ball of fire.

My point is that you can have "magic" without having explosions. Rasengan typically explodes, but that's simply compressed chakra spinning at ultra-high speeds; sometimes infused with wind to cut shit, but when Kakashi used his water dragon, nothing blew up. When Shikaku/Gaara used his Infinite Sand Breakthrough, there was no explosion. When water cannons, fire balls, lightning thrusts, and earth cannonballs were hurled, there were no explosions. Shit got burned, pierced, smashed, and destroyed, but there were no nuke clouds.

Kishi gets it, he just needs to keep his big imagination churning instead of resorting to insta-teleport attacks all day. Yes, its a great way to show speed, but every other show already does it all the time. He at least finds cool ways to vary it up, like Yondi being able to freakin teleport, yet Lee having to run, then stop, then attack. Bleach tried that shit, but wound up with shunpo (teleport) and sonido (teleport, lol). Lotta variation there.

TLDR: moar tactical, intelligent fights. Moar spells. Less teleport-smashy smashy unless its fucking yondy.

[Max™]

I always question what it must be like to be an author. You literally have the world at your fingertips; you can make any spell or control any element or do anything, and you go back and just resort to people punching one another, or, in the case of bleach, you go back to people slashing at eachother, the other vanishing or getting "hit", then a still shot of blood spurting out of your chest/shoulder.

Methinks you've never played a pen and paper RPG, much less GMed one.

As GM, my "character" is the world, rules are things I make, not follow, and my job is simply to find ways to make the other players write interesting stories for me to see in my head as I work out what is going on.

If you wanna have people slashing at each other, take a cue from Samurai Jack, I'm still pissed that they haven't turned that into a movie, or at least brought it back to TV.


As for Yondy telesmashing shit, the fucker has to put a kunai somewhere/put a marking on something/someone to teleport there. That's a badass, stylish motherfucking bit of creativity. Take the "HA I WIN" button of teleportsmashing shit, and require you to think ahead to do it? Awesome. The tactical ideas I could think of with a character who could do that are far too numerous to list here, but it'd probably across something like Portal if you could put a portal on a moving object.

[Sunrider]

I think Kishimoto is a little more than just a GM playing with a fixed set of rules. He's got to have more free reign than that, I think we'd all like to see him play with some of the concepts he established earlier in the series.

I mean, even the high-level shinobi didn't all reduce their fights to flashy moves and big explosions every fight. Jiraiya's Toad Mouth Bind? Flat-Shadow Manipulation? Swamp of the Underworld? Even the Akatsuki weren't all about firing the biggest guns. Sasori was notorious for his use of poison in tandem with his puppets (which took the powers of the bodies they were made from), and Hidan was basically a walking voodoo doll.

It'd be nice to see Naruto develop something that wasn't all press-button-go-boom, but then, something that is more inspired than simply faking an opponent out with Kage Bunshin for a properly-aimed Rasengan.

[Seanr]

I'm watching 173 and shit... Have those rods been in Nagato/Pain since that fight where he summoned what ever the fuck that was...?

[Kobb]

We can only assume. If I remember right, after that fight with Hanzo he was injured and unable to walk anymore. Would explain why he looks so slender and emaciated being stuck into those rods unable to move and send zombie ninja to do his dirty work.

[Vajra]

After that fight with Hanzo, he also creates the 6 Paths of Pain and goes after Hanzo, Hanzo's family and relatives and any other of his associates to get revenge on him for Yahiko's death.

[Sylvrdragon]

I've seen so many super powers in this, and many other anime (and Heroes) go to such waste. I see so many characters get beat and I say to myself "Not only would I have won that fight, I wouldn't have had to even try." I could come up with 100X better uses of most of the abilities I see in these shows with nothing more than high school physics.

Which brings me to my next point, What fucking level of technology are these people at in this show? In one of the movies, they're communicating electronically over headsets, then in the show, they're using fucking carrier pigeons or some shit. In one episode, Kabuto is using a computer to monitor some test subject or research a cure for Orochimaru or something, but they still have to use summons or assholes on foot to carry messages. I know I've seen a ton of examples over the course of the show, but I can't recall them at the moment...

[Deftscythe]

I wanna say back in the forest of death part of the exams there was a shot of Anko watching the forest on security cameras.

[boo]

They gotta live like Ninjas even tho they got all kinds of technologies.

Being to survive in tough enviroment and do things in diffcult way is what ninjas all about isn't it?

[Deadgye]

Which brings me to my next point, What fucking level of technology are these people at in this show? In one of the movies, they're communicating electronically over headsets, then in the show, they're using fucking carrier pigeons or some shit. In one episode, Kabuto is using a computer to monitor some test subject or research a cure for Orochimaru or something, but they still have to use summons or assholes on foot to carry messages. I know I've seen a ton of examples over the course of the show, but I can't recall them at the moment...

Imagine it was about 2000, but while computers have developed there is still no internet. Oh and no phone lines too.

[Xno Kappa]

During the Zabuza arc they also had construction cranes and shit to help build a bridge.