Naruto

**Deadgye** · 2010-11-19 23:47

Originally Posted by orson

You know I was just thinking about this but who would have been in the 3rd coffin Oro summoned against the 3rd hokage? The 4th's soul was sealed but then again Oro didn't know that so maybe it would have just not worked if it wasn't blocked. It's pretty much a non-issue but still it'd be funny if it came up this late in the game maybe as the hidden body Kabuto showed Madara.

Possibly the kage that was killed by orochimaru just before?

Yeah, was referring to the fact that Kabuto summoned a shitload of them in comparison to just two with Orochimaru.

Strong body vs weak body, also it seemed more like a last ditch effort by Orochimaru, whereas Kabuto planned it ahead of time and summoned them separately while resting his chakra in between?

**Cleverness** · 2010-11-20 00:11

Originally Posted by orson

You know I was just thinking about this but who would have been in the 3rd coffin Oro summoned against the 3rd hokage? The 4th's soul was sealed but then again Oro didn't know that so maybe it would have just not worked if it wasn't blocked. It's pretty much a non-issue but still it'd be funny if it came up this late in the game maybe as the hidden body Kabuto showed Madara.

It's not officially known in the manga. I think in the anime the coffin has the 3rd symbol on it but that's not official. Could have been either the Kazekage he killed and impersonated, or simply someone else of a powerful nature. I don't remember that far back but I always assumed the 4th just cancelled the summoning out of fear of dealing with another opponent, not exactly worrying who was in it.

**Zeb** · 2010-11-20 00:21

you can see the symbol at 12:51

Coffin has the symbol for the 4th on it. Buy yeah, it's either a plot hole or they fucked up in the anime. I asked this same question when Kabuto first showed up with Edo Tensei.

**Xno Kappa** · 2010-11-20 00:45

It was never stated in the manga who was in Oro's 3rd coffin but the anime took the liberty of saying it was the 4th Hokage, which we all know by now wouldn't have made any sense. At this point, it's probably best to assume it was the 4th Kazekage.

EDIT: Which I'm willing to bet it's sheer coincidence and luck on Kishi's part to avoid the plot-hole because he obviously meant the 4th Hokage during that summon.

Originally Posted by Deadgye

Strong body vs weak body, also it seemed more like a last ditch effort by Orochimaru, whereas Kabuto planned it ahead of time and summoned them separately while resting his chakra in between?

I agree with the Oro bit but Kabuto also stated that to control them to any degree is a constant chakra drain. Which begs the question, if Kabuto is killed off would the zombies gain a free will? Edo Tensei under Orochimaru seemed like a last resort jutsu which is difficult to control and required a massive amount of chakra. Edo Tensei under Kabuto just seems like Kishi became a huge fanboy of Blackest Night.

The whole jutsu is just silly and undermines a lot of previous story developments.

**Deadgye** · 2010-11-20 00:50

I agree mostly. Power ups and him "perfecting the technique beyond what orochimaru did with it" is the only reason I can come up with for him being able to partially control that many. Kishi realized he needed strong people to fight in the war, but that he killed off too many of them. To be honest randomly making new people appear with almost zero backstory probably would have seemed worse than the overuse of this technique lol.

**Charismatic** · 2010-11-20 05:03

Well, he didn't NEED to bring in a ton of powerful ninjas either way. He has 10000 Zetsus or whatever and we have no clue what Zetsu's abilities are so he could have done whatever the hell he wanted with that.

**Akiyama** · 2010-11-20 05:19

My opinion on that is the 10k zetsus are there to take on the regular, shitty grunt ninjas while all the bigger named reborn ninjas are for the main cast, though that seems fairly obvious. I'm personally curious how things will go since I didn't factor in the corpses actually having personalities. Then again, the First and Second did, so I should have seen that coming.

**Charismatic** · 2010-11-20 05:19

The thing is, that's how he's making it... what I'm saying is that he didn't have to.
Totally his choice to make them look like weak shits and to fuck up the story using Edo Tensei, was not necessary at all though by any means nor is it a lesser of two evils or anything like that.

**Damane** · 2010-11-21 14:49

Originally Posted by Domon Kasshu

The thing is, that's how he's making it... what I'm saying is that he didn't have to.
Totally his choice to make them look like weak shits and to fuck up the story using Edo Tensei, was not necessary at all though by any means nor is it a lesser of two evils or anything like that.

No it was not necessary at all, I agree with you, Madara/Tobi/whoTheFuckEverHeIs had enough tools at his disposal:
Newly gained Rinnegan (+his sharigan and techniques)
Zetsu
7 of the 9 tailed Beasts (correct me if I am wrong, but he is able to control them to some degree/form)
SAAASKEEEEEEEE
and Kabutochimaru

There really was no need for the shit that was pulled out now.

**Khajit** · 2010-11-21 15:39

Let's stop and think about this for a second. KONAN alone nearly defeated madara.Even if you do say "but she planned this for years" there is nothing stopping an entire PLANET of people from making exploding tags in a factory.
Zetsu has always been a weak guy more suited to espionage and trickery. The upgrade he got probably helped out the actual combat strength a ton.
Tailed beasts: ok that one might be a tad tough.
HAxuke got wailed on by the Raikage in a one on one fight and until we see his next super saiyan upgrade he's barely a threat to the top tier ninja atm. The only reason he's even a threat to Naruto is that Naruto is trying not to accidentally pwn his ass to death.
Kabuto is also a tough one since we don't have an accurate gauge of his power but simply having the common sense to use edo tensei instead of directly risking his neck alone makes him dangerous. Easily taken on by the old man.
Less than one quarter of the high lv nin that we even know of were capable of taking out Madara's "army" which leaves multiple fully combat ready armies around to fight.
Madara absolutely needed the help for a conventional war.
We also have the fact that Madara is incapable of extracting the tailed beasts at this current time due to his low numbers(barring edo tensei hax or using the team that Sasuke abandoned) so victory is literally impossible on that front. If anyone had even thought to go ask Konan about madara before madara got to her there would have been an itemized list of every last weakness he had and to boot there would be guards all around the border just to keep the Rinnegan inside the country.
Let's face it. The entire thing was stacked against Madara.

**Damane** · 2010-11-21 16:10

first of Konan had huge trouble against Madara, and that was pre Rinnegan upgrade
Pain alone destroyed Konoha with just the Rinnegan, so Madara will probably have enough power to take it up with alot of ninjas considering he has a rinnegan and a sharingan
we have never seen Zetsu in actual combat yet and cant determin his power yet
still there are 7 tailed beasts in the posession of Madara

there seriously was no need to use a kabutochimaru edo tensei shit, the 7 tailed beasts alone would prolly destroy that whole ninja army alone when put into berserk mode.

Honestly it shouldnt even have come to this point, the whole story went shit right after the total destruction of Konoha because of Pain.

**Villian** · 2010-11-21 16:30

You are also forgetting that each of the tail beast beside 8 and 9 was taken down by 1-2 akatsuki members, and remember they can't kill them so they had to hold back. I'm pretty sure there are stronger shinobi than them in the alliance to take those beasts down. As for Madara, he's waiting to be defeated by Naruto or Sasuke or both. Also not all the edo summoning will fight at the full potential, see 3rd hokage fight vs 1st and 2nd. They were controlled so they couldn't use the full potential like what Kabuto did for Deidara.

**ronin sparthos** · 2010-11-21 21:21

It'd have made more sense if Madara attempted a divide and conquer strat as this is a manga about ninja afterall. Deception, stealth and all that jazz.

Playing on human nature and the flaws of leadership to turn a ninja village against the others would have been logical. That would have given Madara a standing army, pull in global affairs and tailed beasts as his trump card. Who wouldn't side with a guy claiming to be the legendary Madara Uchiha? Especially one Madara Uchiha with all of the WMDs of the Naruto world.

But I guess I'll take Kabuto doing his best Dr. Wily impression instead

**Ragnus** · 2010-11-24 08:19

Yanno, going back to that line Naruto said in the valley fight back in part one, it would be an amazing end to the second Naruto/Sauce fight if Naruto doesn't use the Power of Friendship and just crushes the Sauce's arms and legs before dragging him back to the intelligence squad.

I know it's not gonna happen but one can hope... =/

**Serif** · 2010-11-24 09:35

Spoilaz

Spoiler: show

**Dantrag** · 2010-11-24 10:36

This war is going to feel extremely rushed.

**Xno Kappa** · 2010-11-24 11:56

Doesn't anyone really care if fights like Sai vs. "his brother" are rushed?

**SaviorSelf** · 2010-11-24 18:42

Lame chapter is lame.

**Zilo** · 2010-11-24 20:09

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/58994877/1

**Sunrider** · 2010-11-24 20:13

Fuck that, I liked this chapter.

Sai finally shows some emotion, an artistic showdown with Deidara, Pioneer meets new school in Sasori vs. Kankuro, Omoi hoe checks with his sword skills, and Sai's reckoning with his brother actually defeats defeats Edo Tensei, which we expected to be an unbeatable cheap shot.

Action, drama, a modicum of progression... I think this chapter had as much as we could hope for.

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