Naruto

**ronin sparthos** · 2011-10-27 13:27

Originally Posted by The Blackrose

Because Minato sealed away Tobi's ability to summon the Nine Tails during their bout. If he could still try to summon it, then he would have been freaking out a long while back.

True, yet Tobi's ongoing goal has been to extract the Kyubi from Naruto and merge it into the ten-tailed beast effectively ending the Kyubi's life. Wouldn't this have been reason enough to team up with your host earlier? Even as far back as Pain his life stood to be ended the second he got extracted yet he still acted as if he could defend himself when he took control of Naruto's body.

However, the second Madara shows himself back on the battlefield the arrogant fox starts sweating as if his life wasn't on the line the whole time. I guess an irrational fear of Madara will do that to giant 9-tailed demon foxes.

**Eurell** · 2011-10-27 13:29

Originally Posted by The Blackrose

Because Minato sealed away Tobi's ability to summon the Nine Tails during their bout. If he could still try to summon it, then he would have been freaking out a long while back.

Didn't this issue just prove that it can't be summoned while it's in Naruto anyway?

**Boyiee** · 2011-10-27 13:51

The panel where the Kyubi smiled and said did the "Go... NARUTO!" almost brought a tear to my eye.

**Souj** · 2011-10-27 13:55

can the rinnigan control the tailed beasts? we know the fox was previously controlled with the sharingan, so maybe tobi kept his 1 eye a sharing to control the 10 tails
if the rinnigan could control the tailed beasts, wouldn't pain have done so against naruto? unless of course he couldn't because the fox wasn't complete.

**Ayn** · 2011-10-27 14:11

I'm guessing it has to be fully extracted and free roaming before you can potentially control it with the Sharingan. Even then, I'd imagine you'd have to be a pretty big badass (see: Madara) to even do it in the first place.

I recall reading it somewhere (not sure how accurate this is), but aren't Jinchuriki, at least while they're in tailed beast mode / have the tailed beast cloak on resistant or immune to Sharingan hax? The sauce tried to use it on Bee and it only worked for like a split second, no?

**Souj** · 2011-10-27 14:15

the tailed beast freed bee from the jutsu. I doubt they have any resistance from the sharingan, but a dormant tailed beast could snap them out of hypnosis

**Ayn** · 2011-10-27 14:25

Ahh, gotcha.

Though maybe that in itself kinda explains it. Didn't Chiyo explain early in Shippuden when they were fighting against Itachi-clone that one of the ways to snap someone out of a genjutsu is to inject / insert / jolt them with a separate chakra source? Since a Jinchuriki is two chakra sources in the same body, that'd make using it on them pretty difficult, no? Sorry, I may not be explaining myself well there.

**Eurell** · 2011-10-27 14:26

Originally Posted by Ayn

Ahh, gotcha.

Though maybe that in itself kinda explains it. Didn't Chiyo explain early in Shippuden when they were fighting against Itachi-clone that one of the ways to snap someone out of a genjutsu is to inject / insert / jolt them with a separate chakra source? Since a Jinchuriki is two chakra sources in the same body, that'd make using it on them pretty difficult, no? Sorry, I may not be explaining myself well there.

Yes, but only if the Host and the Tailed Beast are working together, like B and 8 were, and like Naruto and the fox are finally doing now.

**Salodin** · 2011-10-27 14:30

You snap out of genjutsu when some one interferes by "injecting" chakra into you ala the itachi clone vs team 7 in the begining of the time warp.

Im sure he doesnt switch all his eyes because even though its the upgrade of a ems, he wouldnt be able to use ems abilities with a rinnegan, keep both eyes and get double the abilities.

**Ayn** · 2011-10-27 14:31

Yes, but only if the Host and the Tailed Beast are working together, like B and 8 were, and like Naruto and the fox are finally doing now.

Yeah, sort of what I was getting at. Just not in the best way. Sounds like we're all on the same page though.

**The Blackrose** · 2011-10-27 15:37

Originally Posted by ronin sparthos

True, yet Tobi's ongoing goal has been to extract the Kyubi from Naruto and merge it into the ten-tailed beast effectively ending the Kyubi's life. Wouldn't this have been reason enough to team up with your host earlier? Even as far back as Pain his life stood to be ended the second he got extracted yet he still acted as if he could defend himself when he took control of Naruto's body.

However, the second Madara shows himself back on the battlefield the arrogant fox starts sweating as if his life wasn't on the line the whole time. I guess an irrational fear of Madara will do that to giant 9-tailed demon foxes.

That irrational fear is because the Kyubi, while normally arrogant because it thinks it is unstoppable, is Madara's bitch. It knows Madara can control it. And Madara has done so before (eg. the fight with the 1st). Tobi, on the other hand, can't do shit courtesy of Minato. If he didn't cockblock Tobi back then, I bet the Kyubi would have the same reactions.

**Xno Kappa** · 2011-10-27 15:46

This chapter proved tailed beasts can't be summoned anyways without being extracted first. So the 9-tails didn't really have anything to fear as long as Naruto stayed alive, and he's shown he's more then willing to take over if Naruto's in trouble. So this sudden fear of the real Madara is a testament to how grand the situation really is.

Akatsuki would've collected all of them a long time ago had it been that simple to summon tailed beasts.

**Odin'sLaw** · 2011-10-27 17:10

Originally Posted by Hirokei Kiaza

This chapter proved tailed beasts can't be summoned anyways without being extracted first. So the 9-tails didn't really have anything to fear as long as Naruto stayed alive, and he's shown he's more then willing to take over if Naruto's in trouble. So this sudden fear of the real Madara is a testament to how grand the situation really is.

Akatsuki would've collected all of them a long time ago had it been that simple to summon tailed beasts.

actually i think this chapter proved whilst in a host they have some form of choice (or at least that's how it looked why bitch fox was sulking)

**Thunder** · 2011-10-27 17:42

Isn't the only reason madara could summon the fox was because he "owned" it? Kind of like how naruto can summon gamabunta or whatever the frog's name is? And the reason madara could because his sharingan was powerful. I thought that it was more about madara could control the 9 tails and not the sharingan.

Like how the 1st hokage could control them because of his wood jutsu or whatever - I understood it as the wood jutsu was just how he exerted his power. Otherwise any noob with wood jutsu or a sharingan can control the tailed beasts?

And for the why tobi has 1 rinnegan/1sharingan: Rinnegan is > EMS. IF he has the original Madara EMS eyes(or the brother's EMS, whatever you like) a second rinnegan should be better... and because rinnegan is the final step of the sharingan then izanagi should work on it anyway. I'm pretty sure the only reason he's keeping one eye is because it has an OP ability(since sasuke/itachi/kakashi all have different abilities, I figure his is the cheapest). Edit: Do the rinnegan even have different abilities in each eye? All I've seen is madara's meteor which is like main pain's gravity control... if you have 1 rinnegan you have all of its powers?

But if he has the original madara eyes he should have had the rinnegan in both - and lost one to izanagi to the chick. So taking one from pain = 2 rinnegan. He must not have Madara's eyes. So... he can't be/have the body of madara.

I'm still really shaky on what the rinnegan actually does. Is it just control over gravity like the main pain had? ala madara's meteor, because otherwise all I've seen is that he has a badass susanoo under his EMS and can still use it with rinnegan activated(ie, all of sharingan's abilities are usable with rinnegan, like izanagi).

**Salodin** · 2011-10-27 17:49

The rinnegan gives you access to the 6 paths of pain. Technically you can have access to all of them in one person, but for some reason they like having it spread out to 6 different bodies using the main body as a conduit of sorts.

We're led to assume that the reason madara got the rinnegan is cause he took the 1st's cells and somehow used them to strengthen himself, which gave him the rinnegan; if you notice he also looks down his shirt during this chapter, he probably has something hidden from this fusion just like danzo did. Now just because you have the rinnegan doesn't necessarily mean you have everything the ems had as well. Again, unless a future chapter tells us differently, with out the ems tobi wouldn't have access to his dimensional jutsu shit, which is something the rinnegan just doesn't do.

**Thunder** · 2011-10-27 18:04

Uh, if your EMS transcends -> rinnegan like madara's did you do have everything the EMS has(ala susanoo), right? Not all EMS have the same abilities, or MS for that matter. The eye tobi kept must be that dimensional jutsu shit, yeah - that must be why he didn't take the second eye.

But I didn't get the vibe madara only got the rinnegan because of the 1st's cells. Here, http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/73851290/15, they(kabuto/madara) say that rinnegan is what you get when you progress past the sharingan. Doesn't say you fuse powers of the clan with chakra/body with the clan of abilities/eyes. Or whatever the contrast between the two sons was. Makes sense, too, since rinnegan is the final form of the occular prowess, while the chakra/body lineage just gets more powerful or an ability we haven't yet seen(maybe wood justu! lol).

and yeah... 6 paths of pain is kind of OP and makes sense since he did the meteor thing and now that I reread he also absorbed the resenganshuriken. I guess you get that while having one eye.

**Deftscythe** · 2011-10-27 18:10

Originally Posted by ronin sparthos

However, the second Madara shows himself back on the battlefield the arrogant fox starts sweating as if his life wasn't on the line the whole time. I guess an irrational fear of Madara will do that to giant 9-tailed demon foxes.

The fox has the a lot of pride. It might consider being controlled worse than death.

**Ratatapa** · 2011-10-27 18:17

Majin Kyuubi

**Tajin** · 2011-10-27 18:34

Ninjas not holding back (just Madara really

) sets a nice pace, same with trolljutsu from the good side; and so many hidden agendas to spice the filler panels and speculation.

**Deadgye** · 2011-10-27 19:27

Doesn't say you fuse powers of the clan with chakra/body with the clan of abilities/eyes. Or whatever the contrast between the two sons was. Makes sense, too, since rinnegan is the final form of the occular prowess, while the chakra/body lineage just gets more powerful or an ability we haven't yet seen(maybe wood justu! lol).

Wood Jutsu is just Wood Release.. it's Water + Earth. Uchiha Madara does not have that release by default, it's obvious that he's taken a little bit of the 1st into himself since he's used Wood jutsu.

Now, we know that the only 2 possible "owners" of the rinnegan so far both having something to do with using the 1sts cells. It's not a far gamble to guess that the incorporation of the senju clan is required to activate the rinnegan. Also as far as I'm concerned, the rinnegan eyes that Tobi is using are Madara's Eyes.

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