Naruto

**Uzor** · 2011-10-28 07:24

Originally Posted by Eurell

The Rinnegan requiring both bloodlines makes a lot of sense and would cover the fact that Nagato, who has an Uzumaki lineage which we know is a distant relative to the Senju, was able to have the Rinnegan and vice versa for Madara. I really hope Kishi goes this route, he made such a big deal about the elder son of the Sage of Six Paths receiving the eyes, Uchiha, while the younger son received the body, Senju, that it seems silly as shit for both lineages to be able to achieve the rinnegan on their own merit.

This magical ninja theory would explain a lot. When Nagato was revealed to be an Uzumaki I always thought that was weird as shit for him to have the rinnegan. It completely contradicts the story of the Rikudo's two sons.

My guess is that the original Rinnegan user was either a Uzumaki - or had a daughter, too. I mean, throughout history, only the sons ever get talked about since the daughters get married away. Only sons really matter, as they are the ones that inherits their father's "throne", so to speak. So the two sons faught over who gets to inherit from their father, while the daughter sit on the side lines. If Uzumaki is a distant relative of Senju, it makes complete sense that it would be from a daughter of the Sage, or because the Sage was an Uzumaki himself. Uchiha hated the Senju - and probably his father, too - after giving his legacy to the Senju. It wouldn't surprise me if Uchiha cut all ties to his family, while Senju kept in contact with Uzumaki; be it sister or "grandmother", so to speak. Hell, Uzumaki could even be the Sage's sister.

Think about it. Uzumaki has extreme longevity, fits well with body. They also have extremely advanced sealing techniques. Could be that the Sage inherited the body and "mind" from Uzumaki, be it his father or mother. Alternatively, if it's his daughter, she could have inherited the Sage's longevity and mind.

**Eurell** · 2011-10-28 07:38

Originally Posted by Uzor

My guess is that the original Rinnegan user was either a Uzumaki - or had a daughter, too. I mean, throughout history, only the sons ever get talked about since the daughters get married away. Only sons really matter, as they are the ones that inherits their father's "throne", so to speak. So the two sons faught over who gets to inherit from their father, while the daughter sit on the side lines. If Uzumaki is a distant relative of Senju, it makes complete sense that it would be from a daughter of the Sage, or because the Sage was an Uzumaki himself. Uchiha hated the Senju - and probably his father, too - after giving his legacy to the Senju. It wouldn't surprise me if Uchiha cut all ties to his family, while Senju kept in contact with Uzumaki; be it sister or "grandmother", so to speak. Hell, Uzumaki could even be the Sage's sister.

Think about it. Uzumaki has extreme longevity, fits well with body. They also have extremely advanced sealing techniques. Could be that the Sage inherited the body and "mind" from Uzumaki, be it his father or mother. Alternatively, if it's his daughter, she could have inherited the Sage's longevity and mind.

I feel like I'm missing something. Who had the rinnegan between madara and the sage? Or were you referring to the sage when you said he was probably an uzumaki. Which is still sorta meh to me. He was an uchiha/senju, since thats what his sons were. Technically, that should mean Madara and the 1st were distant cousins or some shit. Although, I could see it happening, considering how important the uzumaki started to become with nagato, and with kkushina's backstory.

**Ratatapa** · 2011-10-28 07:46

So am i the only one who wanna know what happened to Yamato?

Spoiler: show

**Uzor** · 2011-10-28 07:54

Originally Posted by Eurell

I feel like I'm missing something. Who had the rinnegan between madara and the sage? Or were you referring to the sage when you said he was probably an uzumaki. Which is still sorta meh to me. He was an uchiha/senju, since thats what his sons were. Technically, that should mean Madara and the 1st were distant cousins or some shit. Although, I could see it happening, considering how important the uzumaki started to become with nagato, and with kkushina's backstory.

Yes, I ment that the Sage was an Uzumaki.

Why would the Sage have to be a Uchiha/Senju? That's what he named his sons. Doesn't have to mean the Sage belonged to those families; he started those families. Those family names didn't exist before the Sage, and the Sage had to belong to a family, too. And that could be Uzumaki.

**Eurell** · 2011-10-28 07:59

Originally Posted by Uzor

Yes, I ment that the Sage was an Uzumaki.

Why would the Sage have to be a Uchiha/Senju? That's what he named his sons. Doesn't have to mean the Sage belonged to those families; he started those families. Those family names didn't exist before the Sage, and the Sage had to belong to a family, too. And that could be Uzumaki.

Because your sons are in the same family as you? He was also the first ninja, so his family being the uzumakis still seems a little off to me(although possible). Maybe Im just misunderstanding how clans/families work lol.

**Deadgye** · 2011-10-28 08:33

I think what he's getting at is that he thinks the sage was from the Uzumaki clan, and that the Uzumaki clan existed as a normal clan before ninja clans.

**Uzor** · 2011-10-28 08:43

Clan names vary from country to country; but it all comes from something. My guess is that Uchiha and Senju was his son's given first names (and Uzumaki their family name). But as they then started their own clans, their clans adopted their first names as their clan name. Hence, their children was named Uchiha (whatever) and Senju (whatever).

That's the way it works in Indonesia, anyway. My full family name is "Siborutorop Marga Simatupang Sian Siborongborong". Siborutorop is the village name - but it also means "From the woman"; meaning a daughter, so the village's ancestry is from a woman. Marga means clan, and the clan's name is Simatupang (which is my great grandfather's name 17 generations back; the clan name that we all share, similar to Uchiha). Sian means "prince", meaning that Simatupang was the prince of Siborongboron, which is the "municipality" that he inherited from his father (a name you may recognize from Starbucks Coffee). So basically; Simatupang was the first name of one of the sons, and his children then adopted that name as their family name. The rest of the name is just a description of family history; but the important part is the Clan name. Which was originally a first name.

The reason they chose to use his first name as their last name is because his father was a very important person (a king), and when they split up and started their own families, it started as "toga Simatupang", meaning "Son of Simatupang". It really wouldn't surprise me if it worked the same way in Japan, as that's the way it worked in most all countries prior to the nowadays classical "last name" trend. Hell; the American name "Svenson", for example, derives from the Swedish name "Svensson", which is how people were named in Sweden before 1800. It means "Sven's son", and the Female-version is "Svendottir", meaning "Sven's daughter".

**Deadgye** · 2011-10-28 08:49

It's a very interesting theory and I've taken a liking to it pretty quickly, lol.

**Uzor** · 2011-10-28 09:20

Read this chapter; it's quite interesting looking back at it. Here, Tobi says "Two of the six paths in the same being!" about him obtaining the power of Uchiha and Senju; and then about Nagato he said "You are the third path".

http://www.mangareader.net/93-57473-...apter-510.html

Edit: besides, whether the Sage had a daughter or not if he's an Uzumaki wouldn't really matter, as it makes perfect sense that she'd inherit the Sage's family name if he did.

**Odin'sLaw** · 2011-10-28 09:42

Originally Posted by Souj

I just wonder when Naruto will get his 2nd element. Probably gonna give him some crazy rare bloodline mix.
Would make sense to be water given his lineage, but who knows. Maybe he's only capable of 1 element. I know you are born with whatever element you can use, but are you born with a max number?
I remember it being said all ninja just start with 1, but then most ninja of a certain rank can usually use 2, but 2 was the max and if you had more it was due to some crazy ability or bloodline.

personally i think it'll be water so he has a weakness to fire since shippuden means hurricane i was kinda seeing wind/water typhooning sasuke in the last fight :/

**Uzor** · 2011-10-28 10:27

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes that he had three kids. Imagine it; there's essentially 6 Chakra affinities, and 6 "Paths". It makes sense that each child would inherit 2 Chakra types from him; the Uchiha inherited Fire and Lightning (Blaze), Senju Earth and Water (Wood), and the daughter Wind and Ying/Yang. Naturally, as time progressed, not everyone in the clan keeps those exact affinities as they mate with people outside the clan; but the Uchiha still has a strong Fire affinity, while the Senju has a strong Water affinity, and the Uzumaki has a strong Ying/Yang affinity or Wind affinity (not much are known about them other than their sealing techniques, really).

All non-elemental techniques (such as Shadow Clone) are based on Yin/Yang release, and Naruto excell at those, too. Besides, the entire Uzumaki clan excelled at sealing techniques, all of which are based on Yin/Yang release.

Then again, Uzumaki means "spiral" or "whirlpool", but tornados are also spiral-shaped. Their clan seal is also that of a spiral (similar to the first Uchiha's eyes):

Spoiler: show

and is also the symbol of the classical Uzumaki-seals:

Spoiler: show

Which also has what looks like Uchiha-like Tomoes.

**Xno Kappa** · 2011-10-28 11:00

Going too deep brah.

**Sqwunk** · 2011-10-28 12:31

Originally Posted by Uzor

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes that he had three kids. Imagine it; there's essentially 6 Chakra affinities, and 6 "Paths". It makes sense that each child would inherit 2 Chakra types from him; the Uchiha inherited Fire and Lightning (Blaze), Senju Earth and Water (Wood), and the daughter Wind and Ying/Yang. Naturally, as time progressed, not everyone in the clan keeps those exact affinities as they mate with people outside the clan; but the Uchiha still has a strong Fire affinity, while the Senju has a strong Water affinity, and the Uzumaki has a strong Ying/Yang affinity or Wind affinity (not much are known about them other than their sealing techniques, really).

All non-elemental techniques (such as Shadow Clone) are based on Yin/Yang release, and Naruto excell at those, too. Besides, the entire Uzumaki clan excelled at sealing techniques, all of which are based on Yin/Yang release.

Then again, Uzumaki means "spiral" or "whirlpool", but tornados are also spiral-shaped. Their clan seal is also that of a spiral (similar to the first Uchiha's eyes):

Spoiler: show

and is also the symbol of the classical Uzumaki-seals:

Spoiler: show

Which also has what looks like Uchiha-like Tomoes.

Also looks very similar to this middle panel

**Salodin** · 2011-10-28 12:36

Originally Posted by Deadgye

Wood Jutsu is just Wood Release.. it's Water + Earth. Uchiha Madara does not have that release by default, it's obvious that he's taken a little bit of the 1st into himself since he's used Wood jutsu.

Now, we know that the only 2 possible "owners" of the rinnegan so far both having something to do with using the 1sts cells. It's not a far gamble to guess that the incorporation of the senju clan is required to activate the rinnegan. Also as far as I'm concerned, the rinnegan eyes that Tobi is using are Madara's Eyes.

How can they be madara's eyes if pain had them? Don't forget he didn't always have the rinnegan (pain that is), and it's a little far fetched to think tobi implanted madara's eyes into a young boy for a insignificant town, with out any body even noticing a new set of eyes. This doesn't even take into account that madara obviously used both normal sharingan, ems, and rinnegan in the chapter, which means his eyes can go back and forth between them; something pain was never able to do. I don't think it's ok to assume pain didn't wake up one day and go "Oh hey, I have a sharingan too!" lol.

**Uzor** · 2011-10-28 12:59

Like I said before; It was likely part of an experiment to create the Rinnegan; likely by combining the Uchiha genes with the Sasuke genes. I don't think he actually transplanted his eyes in to him; I think he gave him his own and Hashima's DNA.

How long before/after the attack on the village did Nagato awaken his eyes? The village attack itself was done by Madara; the question is, was this before or after Nagato had awakened his eyes?

**Eurell** · 2011-10-28 15:57

Originally Posted by Uzor

Like I said before; It was likely part of an experiment to create the Rinnegan; likely by combining the Uchiha genes with the Sasuke genes. I don't think he actually transplanted his eyes in to him; I think he gave him his own and Hashima's DNA.

How long before/after the attack on the village did Nagato awaken his eyes? The village attack itself was done by Madara; the question is, was this before or after Nagato had awakened his eyes?

Nagato's eyes awakened after he met up with J-man, and he blacked out while fighting 2 other ninja by himself. It's entirely possible that the part he 'blacked out for' was when tobi implanted the rinnegan (or some sharingan that mixed with his uzumaki genes and became the rinnegan). I hope that isn't what happened, but its starting to seem that way.

**Uzor** · 2011-10-28 22:16

I know that. What I mean is; did he awaken the eyes before or after the 9-tails attack on Konoha? Jiraiya found them during the second Shinobi world war which took place during the third Kage. Whether or not that is before or after the attack on Konoha I don't know, though. He was the kage in both periods <.<

I'd have to say, based on what we've learned the past few chapters, Nagato HAD to have awakened the eyes after the attack - otherwise Madara would have been alive when he awakened them, which it seems like he wasn't. If he got the eyes AFTER the attack, then that supports my theory about Nagato being an experiment made by Madara to awaken the eyes in himself.

If Nagato awakened the eyes after the attack on the village, then Madara may have been killed as a result of his injuries in the attack. The person that attacked Konoha HAS to be Madara; it can't have been Tobi - otherwise the fox should have reacted to Tobi's presence, which he didn't.

**Thunder** · 2011-10-28 22:23

Heh.. interesting. You're right, tobi couldn't have been the one controlling him and fighting vs minato if the fox never recognized him, but recognized madara. Although, wait - the real madara used nagato as an experiment to awaken the eyes in himself? That doesn't sound right.. when would he have died then AND had the rinnegan if it was in Nagato up until recently? It had to be fake madara who used nagato as an experiment, but I think that's what you meant.

Also, if that WAS the real madara fighting minato, then his eyes have the space displacement/teleport jutsu. That's 1 eye = spacial displacement, both eyes = susanoo, and rinnegan, he's still supposed to have 1 ability in his other EMS. That's how MSes work, yeah? Both eyes have a unique power(itachi had amaterasu and tsukyami or whatever, sasuke has amaterasu and the ability to put it out, and kakashi has his own space displacement thing) and both eyes combined have the susanoo.

**Souj** · 2011-10-28 22:27

Tobi was the one who used the nine-tails to attack Konoha. Madara used it to personally attack the 1st Hokage.
I think that's been proven because the "Madara" that attacked Konoha and the 4th Hokage had the time/space ability, so I personally think your whole question is invalid.

Now for the assumptions;
Real Madara probably died far before that considering he still looks to be in his prime, so unless he discovered a jutsu that stopped him from aging, he would have had to died shortly after he fought with the 1st Hokage. But that also leaves the question as to how he knew about Nagato.

**Thunder** · 2011-10-28 22:28

Editted as you posted.

Why couldn't that "Madara" be the real madara and have the time/space ability? Oh, and also: why did the 9tails react to edo madara but never to tobi if tobi was the one who controlled the 9tails during the attack?

I suspect all of this shit is just going to remain some huge plot hole, or kishi will just write something that contradicts everything because I doubt any of this will play out smoothly.

lol@all the editting after someone's posted/editted already.

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