Naruto

[Sunrider]

I know, I know, overthinking lol shonen plotlines but...

Has anyone ever been curious to know how Kakashi activated his Mangekyo Sharingan, given the trigger needed? Was it something way in the past (we never did understand what happened to Rin), already activated due to Obito's death (and he just had to train to master it), or Kakashi's just that much of a boss?

I've been wondering when they'd get around to explaining Kakashi's Mangekyo as well. Damn, just how long have we been waiting for that story?

Anyway, Itachi said the trigger was to "kill your closest friend." But we can be confident that Kakashi didn't kill any of his friends, and Sasuke never actually killed Itachi--whatever poison/disease he had was the cause. Instead, we saw Sasuke's Mangekyo manifest when learning his brother's story: Itachi really was the brother Sasule loved and and admired (and tried to hate) all along.

My point being, what I think is the true trigger for Mangekyo is not specifically murder, but a psychological trauma, particularly the grief of losing your closest friend. If that's the case, Kakashi's activation of the Mangekyo was probably something uneventful, such as reflecting on his feelings when Obito (and presumably Rin as well) died.

The other thing I've been thinking about was someone (can't remember if it was Tobi or Madara) mentioning that you needed both Senju and Uchiha DNA together to properly utilize the Izanagi. We see this clearly with Danzo being able to do it (he's got Hashirama DNA and an Sharinganarm), "Tobi" is able to do it. We also know that Madara took part of Hashirama with him during their battle, and it seems pretty widely accepted that he lived for a time after the fight. I'm wondering if Hashirama/Mito really believed that he'd died, Madara let them think so, but really used Izanagi to escape at the last minute.

Would explain a few things; there's the possibility that he escaped the fight but with pretty bad injuries (save a mortal blow that would've 'killed' him), no access to the 9 tails, and one of his eyes completely useless.

There was never any mention of Senju DNA requsite for Izanagi use. What he'd said was something along the lines of Izanagi being the-ultimate-but-one-time-only Sharingan technique: complete revision of reality at the cost of eternal blindness.

It just so happened that Danzo had both Senju DNA and an arm full of Uchiha eyes, I suspect his dealings with Orochimaru yielded him the information about the contents of that stone tablet in the Uchiha ghetto (Kabuto revealed to Zombie Madara he'd learned the secrets of the tablet with Orochimaru thanks to rigorous investigation). Danzo probably had hoped to used the Senju DNA he'd infused in conjunction with one or more of his eyes, so that he might gain the Rinnegan.






... But now that you mention it, what are the odds that Tobi really is Madara? Perhaps a kage bunshin given individual life and personality by way of a last-resort Izanagi so that while Madara died, his grand plan would be carried on?

It's a stretch, I know.

[Ayn]

There was never any mention of Senju DNA requsite for Izanagi use. What he'd said was something along the lines of Izanagi being the-ultimate-but-one-time-only Sharingan technique: complete revision of reality at the cost of eternal blindness.

Hmm, you're right in that Senju DNA was never specifically mentioned. I knew I wasn't going crazy though, check out this panel:

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For those too lazy to follow it, Tobidara says, after explaining what Izanagi is:

"It's only available to those with both the power of the Senju and Uchiha"

That's what's been nagging at me.

[Xno Kappa]

Wasn't the whole point of Danzou having a Sharingarm with a Hashiramashoulder was to spam Izanagi?

[Souj]

Kakashi getting MS; I remember a longass time ago in this thread I brought up that MS was most likely gained from just losing the person closest to you.
Now I'd say that is most likely a guarantee. Itachi said that Madara(Tobi) told him the way to get MS was to kill your best friend, right? Tobi most likely just told him that to fuck with him/build up his hate to more easily control him or some shit like that.


and for Izanagi, Tobi says that a perfect Izanagi requires Senju and Uchiha DNA, but there are people with incomplete/imperfect Izanagi, and the frame shows a picture of Danzo and his arm.
Though Donzo did actually have both Senju and Uchiha dna I would assume. He had the Hashirama stuff and sharingans. Tobi is the one who is left unexplained. He's obviously an Uchiha (or at least has the eyes; and we know he has access to Senju DNA as he has the Hashirama flower clone thingy, we just dont know how/if he's got it in him somehow. Assumably so as he does have a rinnigan now.

[Thunder]

For the record, nobody killed for the MS so far. Madara's brother willingly gave up his eyes, itachi never killed his best friend, and sasuke didn't kill itachi. Kakashi didn't kill any of his friends either - most likely.

It's probably just some traumatic event, but it doesn't matter so much I don't think. I just consider it a power-up, like super sayainz that just comes to you in due time/effort.

Oh, and as for the izanagi thing. After tobi talks about perfect/imperfect izanagi and it frames over to danzo, he goes on about how his izanagi lasts for about a minute. When Tobi had to use it because of the million paper bomb thing - he said he'd be able to last 5 minutes, right? About to go to bed so I can't look for it, but that's pretty important considering we don't know if tobi's izanagi is perfect or imperfect, but we do know it was much better than danzo's.

[Gredival]

edit: i wonder more about why hasn't Kakashi's vision started to blur more then how he got his time warp tobi style eye

Kakashi's eyesight doesn't worsen for the same reason the Eternal never fades: transplanted eye. The reason Kakashi doesn't have an Eternal is that Kakashi doesn't have a natural Mangekyo of his own to fuse with Obito's to create an Eternal.

Moreover since he doesn't have both eyes, it's questionable what abilities he could use anyway. We haven't seen Kakashi use Amaterasu or Tsukiyomi, and we know that each of those resides in a single eye. Plus Susano relies on both Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi being awakened and uses both eyes. Instead both Tobi and Kakashi have time/space abilities instead of Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi (we haven't seen Tobi use either as far as I can recall). But we know Tobi had two eyes due to the fight with Konan.

For the record, nobody killed for the MS so far. Madara's brother willingly gave up his eyes, itachi never killed his best friend, and sasuke didn't kill itachi. Kakashi didn't kill any of his friends either - most likely.

It's probably just some traumatic event, but it doesn't matter so much I don't think. I just consider it a power-up, like super sayainz that just comes to you in due time/effort.

Madara's Mangekyo is never described. His Eternal was attained by taking his brother's eyes.

Sasuke proves that murder isn't a prerequisite to Mangekyo, it's likely just a shortcut to the type of trauma necessary to awaken it. Presumably Itachi's eyes were likely awakened from the trauma of murdering his entire clan, like Sasuke's were awakened by the trauma of the death of Itachi once he realized who Itachi really was.

[Eurell]

Kakashi's eyesight doesn't worsen for the same reason the Eternal never fades: transplanted eye. The reason Kakashi doesn't have an Eternal is that Kakashi doesn't have a natural Mangekyo of his own to fuse with Obito's to create an Eternal.

Moreover since he doesn't have both eyes, it's questionable what abilities he could use anyway. We haven't seen Kakashi use Amaterasu or Tsukiyomi, and we know that each of those resides in a single eye. Plus Susano relies on both Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi being awakened and uses both eyes. Instead both Tobi and Kakashi have time/space abilities instead of Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi (we haven't seen Tobi use either as far as I can recall). But we know Tobi had two eyes due to the fight with Konan.

Yeah, I assumed his sharingan eye's vision was getting worse, as he knew about the sharingan making you blind back at the start of part 2. I just figured it wasn't that big of an issue for Kakashi because e has another eye that is just fine.

Madara's Mangekyo is never described. His Eternal was attained by taking his brother's eyes.

Sasuke proves that murder isn't a prerequisite to Mangekyo, it's likely just a shortcut to the type of trauma necessary to awaken it. Presumably Itachi's eyes were likely awakened from the trauma of murdering his entire clan, like Sasuke's were awakened by the trauma of the death of Itachi once he realized who Itachi really was.

Itachi had his MS before he murdered his clan I thought, although I guess the flashback doesn't specifically show that.

[Sunrider]

Arg, my bad. I always thought Sharingan > Izanagi was independent of Senju DNA, I suppose I didn't comprehend that as well as I thought.

Kakashi's eyesight doesn't worsen for the same reason the Eternal never fades: transplanted eye.

Not necessarily. After all, the fact that it's a transplant doesn't make it less taxing than it would for an Uchiha, in fact it's even more stressful on his chakra; why would the blindness be absent from a transplant? For all we know, because he's not Uchiha, the blindness might even be accelerated.

[Uzor]

Kakashi getting MS; I remember a longass time ago in this thread I brought up that MS was most likely gained from just losing the person closest to you.
Now I'd say that is most likely a guarantee. Itachi said that Madara(Tobi) told him the way to get MS was to kill your best friend, right? Tobi most likely just told him that to fuck with him/build up his hate to more easily control him or some shit like that.


and for Izanagi, Tobi says that a perfect Izanagi requires Senju and Uchiha DNA, but there are people with incomplete/imperfect Izanagi, and the frame shows a picture of Danzo and his arm.
Though Donzo did actually have both Senju and Uchiha dna I would assume. He had the Hashirama stuff and sharingans. Tobi is the one who is left unexplained. He's obviously an Uchiha (or at least has the eyes; and we know he has access to Senju DNA as he has the Hashirama flower clone thingy, we just dont know how/if he's got it in him somehow. Assumably so as he does have a rinnigan now.

I think it's rather obvious that a "perfect" Izanagi is only possible with Rinnegan. The Rinnegan has the ability to dream things up with Yin, and then make them a reality with Yang; it's how Madara created the huge meteor and how the Sage created the moon and split the ten tails in to the tailed beasts. Izanagi, on the other hand, allows the attack to "become just a dream" or something like that; so it's basically kind of a reverse "Creation of all Things", imo. So it's likely that everyone with Mangekyou has the ability to perform Izanagi to some extent; but only those that posess the Rinnegan can do it perfectly without going blind or something.

[vadre]

I've sort of been assuming that Kakashi's ability with MS is pretty much the same as Tobis, except he uses it on himself rather than others to teleport etc. Could be wrong, but I'm guessing he's had his sharingan transplanted in from the start.

Anyway, Naruto's not on break this week, it is next week. Spoilers are popping up for it.

[Ayn]

Itachi had his MS before he murdered his clan I thought, although I guess the flashback doesn't specifically show that.

I thought there was a shot that showed Itachi having the Mangekyo before the clan murder thing? It was when the Jim, Paul, and Bob Uchiha came to question him about Shisui's death. Sasuke looked back at him after that and saw Itachi with a scary look (and I think vague Mangekyo pattern) and was pretty damn freaked out by it.

Also, didn't Itachi technically kill Shisui? Maybe not willingly, but I know he took his other eye after Danzo did to create the Mangekrow. Might've been something they both schemed up.

[Thunder]

Madara's Mangekyo is never described. His Eternal was attained by taking his brother's eyes.

Sasuke proves that murder isn't a prerequisite to Mangekyo, it's likely just a shortcut to the type of trauma necessary to awaken it. Presumably Itachi's eyes were likely awakened from the trauma of murdering his entire clan, like Sasuke's were awakened by the trauma of the death of Itachi once he realized who Itachi really was.

Ah fuck lol, totally mixed up madara getting EMS with him getting MS <.< nevermind that..

[vadre]

I'm pretty sure he was already dying after Danzou robbed him of an eye? If memory serves he decided to die so that people couldn't abuse his abilities or something.

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The fact that he says he 'died silently' sort of suggests to me Itachi caught him just before he died due to being attacked by Danzou. I guess we won't find out whether he helped him along or not.

Edit: Itachi already had MS when he murdered the Uchihas I think? When those guys came and accused him of murdering Shisui I think Sasuke saw it?

[Skai]

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Break next week nooooooooo...

Spoiler: show

Hell yeah double techniques. Let's see some triple techniques! By the way, Raikage still missing left arm.

[vadre]

Spoiler: show

It's looking likely we might see his face next time, considering the fact that he slammed into the mask and it looks like it's cracking. Nice to see fake madara surprised by something, that's pretty rare..

[Uzor]

Well, we'll probably get a chapter next week and none the week after that, since we've almost always had the chapter leaked a week early. At least I hope so xD

[Souj]

Spoiler: show

Naruto and Killer B vs Tobi, and 6(?) previous Jinchuriki. hmm...

[Eurell]

GFDI this chapter seemed way too short

[BadKarma]

Love

[Sho]

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NARUTO!