Naruto

**Vaspinne** · 2012-02-16 01:10

Originally Posted by samalis

I forget did they ever show Kakashi vs swordsmans fight? Or did Kishi just skip it completely and go straight to Madara gayness?

Don't worry, I read your post >_>. It pretty much cut away after he got Zabuza's sword that cannot be beat. There was nothing shown between that moment and when he and Gai arrived to help Naruto and Bee

**Ayn** · 2012-02-16 01:35

Sasuke might be fucking horrible now, but he wasn't bad up until after the Itachi fight.

Agreed on this. It was still singlemindedness, but I guess it didn't bug me that much since the trauma from Itachi murdering everyone was his single driving factor.

I'm going to agree with evoking emotion from the reader. It's annoying, because you want to see him snap the fuck out of it..but hell, I think a number of us know people who are so far gone that reaching them is sheer futility (think people locked in severe depression/anxiety/self-pity or PTSD); just thankfully they don't have hax eye powers to ignite shit.

I dunno if I'd want to see Sasuke turn 'good'.. I mean if nothing else, it'd be interested if they played his anger from the perspective of genuinely being sick of being manipulated (for good or bad reasons) by everyone and going the 'fuck anyone that tries to cage me' shit. Itachi wanted him to be a hero for the village, Tobidara wanted him as a tool of war, Kabuto wants him for research, Orochimaru wanted his body. Kid has a legitimate angle to be pissed over that, depending on how it's told.

...But yeah, he's still a fuckwit of a character.

I wonder if what Suigetsu found was the blueprints to a Sharingan tank.

It pretty much cut away after he got Zabuza's sword that cannot be beat.

Yes.

**Maguspk** · 2012-02-16 03:35

Some people think progression means he has to hug Naruto and apologize to the Hokage with his head on the ground.

**Deftscythe** · 2012-02-16 03:45

Good thing those people aren't in this thread, huh?

**Tsuneo** · 2012-02-16 04:04

There better be no happy ending. Someone needs to die after all of this.

**Shuvo** · 2012-02-16 04:41

I just rewatched the last few eps of Naruto again and I just noticed that during the 9tail attack Itachi said 'Of all the nights for my parents to be out' ?! Was that in the manga too?

God I have the feeling Tobi will be something lame like a sentient genjutsu controlled by the Uchiha clan or something. ~_~

Edit: That's not actually a bad idea. I just hate Sasuke so much right now anything related to Uchiha makes me /rage

**Gredival** · 2012-02-16 05:44

Originally Posted by Deftscythe

Is it? Sasuke has been about revenge since we met him ten years ago. His character should have progressed with his encounter with Itachi and then Tobi's revelation, but instead he kept his same old obsession and just changed the target.

Sasuke began to stink as a character because he became unsympathetic post-Itachi. He may have been emo beforehand, but the readers could understand his underlying obsession with revenge.

But then he started wanting to lash out at anyone and everyone without anything to ground him. And that's not to say the villain always has to be misunderstood. You can have mad, cold, callous villains. But Sasuke's descent from anti-hero into villain was handled poorly and you ended up with a character readers could neither relate to, or even make sense of.

**Vaspinne** · 2012-02-16 06:23

Originally Posted by Shuvo

I just rewatched the last few eps of Naruto again and I just noticed that during the 9tail attack Itachi said 'Of all the nights for my parents to be out' ?! Was that in the manga too?

God I have the feeling Tobi will be something lame like a sentient genjutsu controlled by the Uchiha clan or something. ~_~

Edit: That's not actually a bad idea. I just hate Sasuke so much right now anything related to Uchiha makes me /rage

Another theory going around is that Tobi is actually Sasuke and Itachi's father. His corpse that Sasuke saw being a Zetsu clone (ala, the clone Zetsu made for when Kisame was beheaded by A and Bee). It does sort of make sense, but it's probably as likely as Tobi being Obito.

**arus2001** · 2012-02-16 07:12

Could also explain how Itachi knew his sharingan to trigger the trap when Tobi and Sasuke first met, but that could also kinda be hand-waved with them both being Akatsuki, albeit Tobi being the 'new guy' from when first came to know him. Of what little we've seen of his face, he's also not exactly young. Still not sure what to make of Zetsu-arm when Minato fucked him up, though.

**Eurell** · 2012-02-16 07:16

Originally Posted by arus2001

Could also explain how Itachi knew his sharingan to trigger the trap when Tobi and Sasuke first met, but that could also kinda be hand-waved with them both being Akatsuki, albeit Tobi being the 'new guy' from when first came to know him. Of what little we've seen of his face, he's also not exactly young. Still not sure what to make of Zetsu-arm when Minato fucked him up, though.

Thats because they knew eachother. Tobi introduced himself as Madara ad assisted in the Uchiha massacre.

**Uzor** · 2012-02-16 07:26

Tobi being their father makes no sense what-so-ever. Wouldn't they have recognized their father's Sharingan? Also; wouldn't they have known that their father had a eternal mangekyou? It's not really something that's easily hidden from family - nevertheless the entire frikkin' clan. There's also the Chakra. Wouldn't they have seen or sensed the similarities in Tobi's and their father's chakra?

**arus2001** · 2012-02-16 07:29

I guess in Naruto-world, ninjas can't actually be sneaky and hide things from people. Not every Uchiha was Itachi-tier. Heck, we have no idea how many actually unlocked their eyes.

**Abandon** · 2012-02-16 07:29

the sharingan isn't always active; i wouldn't have it active when sittin at the house eatin pork rinds or something. that shit can be turned off/on at will, unless you're Hitake Kakashi.

**Uzor** · 2012-02-16 07:32

I know, but to think he would never have shown his eyes to his sons is kind of strange. There's also chakra.

I think it's more likely that the Uchiha - or at least their father/mother - was in cohoots with Tobi and/or Madara.

**Deftscythe** · 2012-02-16 07:44

Originally Posted by Gredival

Sasuke began to stink as a character because he became unsympathetic post-Itachi. He may have been emo beforehand, but the readers could understand his underlying obsession with revenge.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at when I said his character should have progressed much earlier.

**vadre** · 2012-02-16 07:44

Itachi had MS without anyone seeming to know (apart from where he almost whipped it out on his family at one point).

I thought 'sensor' types were the only ones with that kind of capacity to sense chakra and match it to people, besides it's been 10 years and he's practically made out of plant juice, it's not unreasonable to think he could adjust all kinds of things about himself.

I brought up the Tobi=dad thing a couple of pages back and still think it's a distinct (albeit horribly cliche) possibility, considering contact that's been made between their parents and main characters during important moments (like Sasuke's mother and Kushina right before she was going to give birth, then Tobi showing up to keel them)

**Tsuneo** · 2012-02-16 08:02

I always liked the idea of Tobi being an amalgamation of Uchiha and Senju DNA. It's a fact that he has Senju DNA since he used Izanagi. It's also a fact that he's not Madara for the obvious reasons. He probably was around when the real Madara was alive, and that's why he knows so much about the real Madara's plan. I really do believe Tobi is an artificial being created to carry out Madara's plan.

**Sunrider** · 2012-02-16 08:13

Originally Posted by Tsuneo

I always liked the idea of Tobi being an amalgamation of Uchiha and Senju DNA. It's a fact that he has Senju DNA since he used Izanagi. It's also a fact that he's not Madara for the obvious reasons. He probably was around when the real Madara was alive, and that's why he knows so much about the real Madara's plan. I really do believe Tobi is an artificial being created to carry out Madara's plan.

When was it revealed that he used Izanagi? All we know is Senju and Uchiha DNA resulted in Danzo using Izanagi, Tobi using it is, at this point, still speculation.

And there's still nothing saying he's not Madara, just that he's not entirely Madara. The anime illustrated the Tobi vs. Minato fight better, where we got a clearer picture of what Tobi did to his arm. If I had to guess, he's a lot like Yamato: host body with DNA spliced into it. Maybe Madara's DNA (or just his chakra), spliced into white Zetsu's material, which accounts for his ability to ditch limbs so readily.

All this implies his ability to use Izanagi, this implies that he's not actually Madara, but we don't know for certain. For all we know, Tobi is a bunshin of Madara that somehow survived his death.

**Abandon** · 2012-02-16 08:30

Sensory and Sages are the only ones can sense chakra in that sense, so unless he went out of his way to show them the eyes, there'd be no way for them to know. I can't wait to hit a port so i can watch Minato smack that Rasengan into Tobi's spine, the gif looked goddamned epic.

**Uzor** · 2012-02-16 08:40

I'm not entirely sure how it's possible for an entire clan to miss Sasuke's father killing his brother and takinghis eyes. And even if killing isn't required, I believe it would be known if he took his brother's eyes. I suppose it's possible that the entire clan is in on it and kept it a secret from Itachi and Sasuke, though.

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