Naruto

**Tsuneo** · 2012-02-29 14:01

If Hashirama is that strong, why was Hiruzen able to hold his own against him and his brother. My memory of that fight isn't that good anymore, but I don't remember Hiruzen getting completely raped.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-02-29 14:10

It was pointed out a bunch of times early in the series that the Third was the most powerful shinobi Konoha has ever produced and he easily held his own against the First and Second at the same time way past his prime. The First, the same guy who supposedly beat Madara, whose now giving not one but five kages such a hard time.

The fact the First and Madara are considered so fucktardedly strong now seems like an afterthought.

**Maguspk** · 2012-02-29 14:37

You can't really compare an edo tensei 1st to the real first, Orochimaru was fighting alongside them likely not able to use them to their full potential other than chakra batteries to use techniques with. It does not make sense for the 3rd to be so strong that he could take on the 1st, 2nd and Orochimaru in his old age. He was simply the ninja who knew the most techniques, I believe, not the 'strongest' out right.

**arus2001** · 2012-02-29 14:41

And even an ET zombie is compelled to fight, I'm not sure it's a guarantee they'd give it their all... likely just enough to please their host.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-02-29 14:45

Saying they don't "give it their all" is just speculation. ET ninjas are just puppets, they're not gonna hold back. Asuma and Nagato sure as hell didn't and they would've likely been the biggest candidates to do so. We're only left to assume they go all out.

**Thunder** · 2012-02-29 14:54

Originally Posted by Hirokei Kiaza

Saying they don't "give it their all" is just speculation. ET ninjas are just puppets, they're not gonna hold back. Asuma and Nagato sure as hell didn't and they would've likely been the biggest candidates to do so. We're only left to assume they go all out.

Hasn't kabuto already spoken about perfecting the ET? ie, oro's ET was weaker

Also, Kabuto talked about, in his battle with deidara vs flyingoldman, that deidara's stronger if he(kabuto) doesn't control his actions since deidara can do deidara's shit better than kabuto can do deidara's shit... oro had to control the 1st/2nd. So it wasn't the 1st/2nd in their prime vs the 3rd in his old age. It was the 1st/2nd in their prime(or not? oro's ET is supposedly weaker than kabutorochimaru's) controlled by one man.

I thought you were joking every time you posted old man 3rd being > everyone lol. The 1st and madara being the strongest ever was being built up since the series began, pretty much.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-02-29 15:16

Strongest or more effective, whatever, bottom-line is that the third was able to defeat the first and second. Kabuto said his ET was better because he was able to summon more at a time. Never said anything about making the zombies stronger.

**Sunrider** · 2012-02-29 16:15

Someone in the Shinobi Alliance needs to man up, take the loss, and become the sacrifice for an Edo Tensei Hiruzen. Or see if Zetsu clones count as a proper sacrifice.

Shit'd get serious.

**Tsuneo** · 2012-02-29 16:32

Hiruzen can't be Edo Tensei'd for the same reason Orichimaru couldn't bring Minato back. Hiruzen, Minato, Hashirama, and Tobirama are sealed inside the shinigami, so it should be impossible for any of them to be brought back through Edo Tensei. I'm sure Kabuto would have resurrected Hashirama if it was possible.

**Maguspk** · 2012-02-29 16:40

Originally Posted by Thunder

Kabuto talked about, in his battle with deidara vs flyingoldman, that deidara's stronger if he(kabuto) doesn't control his actions since deidara can do deidara's shit better than kabuto can do deidara's shit

Forgot about this but it makes perfect sense now and proves what should be obvious, that an edo tensei ninja is simply a man controlling them. Also explains why Kabuto is letting Madara do his own thing besides adjusting his body to include the 1st.

**Ayn** · 2012-02-29 16:48

And even an ET zombie is compelled to fight, I'm not sure it's a guarantee they'd give it their all... likely just enough to please their host.

Is it bad that the first thing I thought about was a ninja with a glowing finger?

**Salodin** · 2012-02-29 17:08

Originally Posted by Hirokei Kiaza

Strongest or more effective, whatever, bottom-line is that the third was able to defeat the first and second. Kabuto said his ET was better because he was able to summon more at a time. Never said anything about making the zombies stronger.

Orochi commented on it when he summoned them, the more of their will he takes away, the weaker they become. Whether its because they become weaker, or he has to concentrate to make them fight its not said, but ET 1st =/= OG 1st. This is probably half the reason the fight between the 3 hokage went down the way it did, other half being the 3rd was just an old fart.

**Sunrider** · 2012-02-29 17:31

Originally Posted by Tsuneo

Hiruzen can't be Edo Tensei'd for the same reason Orichimaru couldn't bring Minato back. Hiruzen, Minato, Hashirama, and Tobirama are sealed inside the shinigami, so it should be impossible for any of them to be brought back through Edo Tensei. I'm sure Kabuto would have resurrected Hashirama if it was possible.

Shit, I forgot all about that.

Damn, now I'm all bummed about Hiruzen's death again.

**AvidLoki** · 2012-02-29 22:35

Madara losing to the first, who lost with the second to the third, who lost to Orochimaru, who lost to Sasuke.

Obviously Sasuke is stronger than Madara. amidoinitrite?

Seriously though, unless I overlooked something, since Madara does have the Rinnegan this time around couldn't that play a factor into why he's giving 5 Kages a harder time than when he fought the 1st?

**Phoenyx** · 2012-02-29 22:54

Spoiler: show

**Sunrider** · 2012-02-29 22:57

Originally Posted by AvidLoki

Seriously though, unless I overlooked something, since Madara does have the Rinnegan this time around couldn't that play a factor into why he's giving 5 Kages a harder time than when he fought the 1st?

Senju DNA and jutsus in addition to Rinnegan?

Nah, can't be a factor.

Seriously though, I'm starting to wonder if there was ever anyone besides Hashirama that could manipulate Mokuton, it seems he was the only Senju (and his clone, Yamato) to do it.

**orson** · 2012-03-01 04:58

Originally Posted by Sunrider

Senju DNA and jutsus in addition to Rinnegan?

Nah, can't be a factor.

Seriously though, I'm starting to wonder if there was ever anyone besides Hashirama that could manipulate Mokuton, it seems he was the only Senju (and his clone, Yamato) to do it.

I'm pretty sure it's been stated with the bloodline limits they don't always manifest in the next generation. Obviously some seem a bit more common like Byakugan seems to be in every generation. It's probably like any genetic trait some a more common than others. Mokuton was not necessarily only a bloodline limit either it was stated that it was a combination element so you'd need have the genetic predisposition and the ability to use both those elements. Even if the person inherits the bloodline limit doesn't mean they'll have the same nature affinity.

As for Madara giving the 5 Kages a hard time well that's understandable given he's basically invincible to damage, has rinnegan and is combined with the 1st hokage. Edo Tensei also seems to give the rez'ed person unlimited chakra too. Mostly anything that doesn't make sense can be attributed to Edo Tensei being completely bogusly broken but we have discussed that many times.

Also Kabuto improved on him but maybe that's just referring to the 1st's implanting.
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/560/3

**Sunrider** · 2012-03-01 07:20

Originally Posted by orson

I'm pretty sure it's been stated with the bloodline limits they don't always manifest in the next generation. Obviously some seem a bit more common like Byakugan seems to be in every generation. It's probably like any genetic trait some a more common than others. Mokuton was not necessarily only a bloodline limit either it was stated that it was a combination element so you'd need have the genetic predisposition and the ability to use both those elements. Even if the person inherits the bloodline limit doesn't mean they'll have the same nature affinity.

The way it was explained, though, all kekkei genkai are dual-element, which is what supposedly makes kekkei genkai unique.

That aside, even if the trait doesn't always manifest itself, there's still the fact that we've yet to hear of anyone aside from Hashirama (and his clone) manifesting mokuton. I just find that a bit suspicious, is all.

**Eurell** · 2012-03-01 07:45

Originally Posted by Sunrider

The way it was explained, though, all kekkei genkai are dual-element, which is what supposedly makes kekkei genkai unique.

I think that too until I remember that sharingan and the other eyes are considered kekkei genkais. Also this guy

Spoiler: show

**Ratatapa** · 2012-03-01 07:48

Stupid Anime, like usual putting Konan vs Madara in 2 episodes .... FLASHBACKS

Thread: Naruto

Thread Tools

Latest Threads

Up & Coming Threads

Hottest Threads