Naruto

**Thunder** · 2012-03-01 20:50

Do you guys remember where you're getting this, 'the 3rd's the strongest ever' from?

I never had a second thought that the 1st was the best. It was said in the beginning somewhere that he was responsible for saving the village from the first attack(pretty sure the story goes like that until we know madara existed and it was 9tails + madara that he beat) while when it attacked the 3rd/4th hokage, the 4th died. In the very beginning, even, it was said that he created all of the trees in the forests around/in the hidden leaf or some shit. And, he was able to control tailed beasts and had so many that he distributed them to villages for peace.

Then later, with all the build up of uchiha shit, we find out the best one of them + the strongest tailed beast loses to the 1st. Tobi goes on sucking his dick saying how great the 1st was. Now madara does it.

I just don't see a comparison and feel like this all started because oro revived the 1st/2nd and the 3rd didn't instantly die if 1st >>> everyone. I attribute it to oro fighting the 3rd with the bodies of 1st/2nd, and not the 1st/2nd fighting the 3rd. But I'm pretty sure the writing isn't as well thought out as it should be. The 3rd used fucking roof tile shuriken for fuck's sake. I bet if that fight happened now he would be summing and throwing spinning dragons at oro - all without handsigns, of course.

**Salodin** · 2012-03-01 20:51

^

This man speaks the truth.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-03-01 22:07

Originally Posted by Thunder

But I'm pretty sure the writing isn't as well thought out as it should be. The 3rd used fucking roof tile shuriken for fuck's sake. I bet if that fight happened now he would be summing and throwing spinning dragons at oro - all without handsigns, of course.

This was pretty much my point lol.

**Uzor** · 2012-03-01 23:05

Originally Posted by Khajit

If Garaa is anything to go by it's definitely not survivable under any normal circumstances. There's always a small chance that some ninja learned the same technique used to revive Garaa for use on Naruto but for the most part I dont see any other loopholes existing. If Naruto's mom Kushina had any chance of survival before it would be because of the 9tails still technically being connected to her but being given corporeal form akin to a more malevolent version of what Naruto/Kurama are doing right now.

It's been said that the Uzumaki clan is the only clan that can survive a Bijuu extraction, so we do know it is survivable under certain circumstances.

**Tajin** · 2012-03-01 23:19

There's the twins with 9-tails chakra as a backup anyway, no need for Naruto to lose it.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-03-01 23:30

I had completely forgotten Tobi went out of his way to capture the twin's 9-tails chakra lol.

**Souj** · 2012-03-01 23:31

I'm pretty sure he still needs Naruto's Nine tails.
Madara would have killed Naruto by now if he didn't need him. At least Madara believes he could kill Naruto easily enough if all he needed to do was "kill him"

**BadKarma** · 2012-03-01 23:59

Originally Posted by Souj

I'm pretty sure he still needs Naruto's Nine tails.
Madara would have killed Naruto by now if he didn't need him. At least Madara believes he could kill Naruto easily enough if all he needed to do was "kill him"

I think at this point that is far beyond being an outright farce.

**Tymon** · 2012-03-02 00:10

What's funny is, even if Naruto loses the 9-tails, with Sage Mode he's still probably in the top 5 for strongest living ninja, maybe even #1 or #2.

**Tsuneo** · 2012-03-02 00:13

Originally Posted by Uzor

It's been said that the Uzumaki clan is the only clan that can survive a Bijuu extraction, so we do know it is survivable under certain circumstances.

Was it stated that they could survive? I thought Kushina being an Uzumaki allowed her to not die instantly.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-03-02 00:23

It's hard to say. Tobi congratulated her for not dying instantly but it's never flat out stated she was going to die eventually because of the extraction. Someone brought up a good point, maybe she was telling Minato to run away with Naruto because she would've slowed them down. I don't know, I'm inclined to lean to Kishi meaning the latter since he made the sealing jutsu's of the Uzumaki clan and the fact Kushina didn't die instantly because of it such a big deal at the time.

**Vaspinne** · 2012-03-02 01:04

Originally Posted by Tymon

What's funny is, even if Naruto loses the 9-tails, with Sage Mode he's still probably in the top 5 for strongest living ninja, maybe even #1 or #2.

This has always been my question; Does Tobi need the entirety of the 9-tails chakra to revive the 10-tails? Or will just a small amount do? If the 10 tails was divided up into 9 lesser beings, and with the kyuubi being the strongest of the bunch, I can't see the 10-tails being revived without the entirety of the kyuubi's chakra. That or it could be revived but in a weakened state. Take into account that even if it's extracted from Naruto, is it even the full strength of the kyuubi? Or is it still just half of it, the other half being sealed away by Minato?

Too many questions, and definitely no answers at the moment.

**Tajin** · 2012-03-02 02:01

its half the fox only. but since its chakra; you can invoke plotkai and say its now more than half because chakra regenerates or some bullshit.

**Tsuneo** · 2012-03-02 03:07

Wasn't Tobi planning on using the Kyuubi's chakra that Ginkaku and Kinkaku had to revive the Juubi?

**vadre** · 2012-03-02 03:32

I'm pretty sure his last resort option is to use their nine-tails chakra and that tentacle's 8-tails chakra to get the process started if he can't capture naruto and bee.

**Uzor** · 2012-03-02 06:40

I think Zetsu said that he can o it, but it will take more time and will be weaker or something like that?

**Eurell** · 2012-03-02 08:00

Originally Posted by Sunrider

Yes, and those too are fusions of two elements.

Remember, during Kakashi's introduction to element training in which he explained the nature of kekkei genkai, the first question Naruto asked was about genkai such as the Nara clan's, which doesn't seem to follow any element. Yamato interjected with the presence of not just elemental chakra, but yin and yang chakra (something we saw mentioned when Mintao sealed half of Kurama's chakra). Yamato then left the conversation unfinished citing the complexities of getting into yin and yang.

That said, other kekkei genkais are indeed elemental fusions (see the latest Mizukage, who seems to have two seperate genkai), just of a different complexty than mokuton or hyoton. .

I get that 90% of them have just been combining elements, just like the bloodline expansion was just combining 3 elements.

What elements exactly are the bones and the eyes?

**Vaspinne** · 2012-03-02 08:34

Originally Posted by Tajin

its half the fox only. but since its chakra; you can invoke plotkai and say its now more than half because chakra regenerates or some bullshit.

I could have sworn that in one of the chapters, it was stated that Minato took specifically the yin chakra and left the yang chakra in Naruto. But reading the flashback chapter where the fox is actually sealed, it's just stated a couple times that Minato took half without specifically saying a particular type of chakra.

Originally Posted by Uzor

I think Zetsu said that he can do it, but it will take more time and will be weaker or something like that?

This makes the most sense to me, as it just doesn't seem logical that Tobi could get the full amount of chakra of the 8 and 9 tails from a tentacle, and 2 brothers who don't have the actual source of the chakra with them, but instead a portion of it.

Originally Posted by Eurell

What elements exactly are the bones and the eyes?

It's never been stated. None of the non-elemental KG's have been described at all.As far as elements:

Wood = Water + Earth
Ice = Water + Ice
Vapour = Water + Fire
Lava = Fire + Earth
Storm = Lightning + Water
Dust = Earth + Wind + Fire

Dust has been the only one thus far that's been noted to have 3 elements combined together. All other KG's have been left unexplained really.

You can read up on all of them here. There are a few in there from filler episodes of the anime though, just a forewarning.

**Damane** · 2012-03-02 09:02

Originally Posted by Salodin

Theres a shit ton of ninja, but only a handful of elements. Chances are bloodline limits are more then just a combination of any random two elements, and more of a combination of two or more elements along with the genetic disposition to use them in the correct way.

It's a pretty tough pill to swallow that no one else in the ninja world had both wind and water affinity for chakra other then the clan that Haku is from, allowing them to make Ice element. Or Shadow element to use kagemane no jutsu. Or earth and water to make wood. The list goes on...

As far as I understood Ninjutsu Elemental Fusion: You can only Fuse 2 elements without a kekkei genkai ability if they stood close to each other, according to this pic.

http://cdn.likenaruto.com/wp-content...nts-naruto.png

For example Fuseing Wind Element + Fire Element Jutsus is quiet possible for a non kekkei genkai Ninja, resulting in a more Powerfull Fire Jutsu (since Wind Element fuels Fire Element with power).
Or Combinging Water and Earth to enhance the Earth Jutsu (thus makeing it Mud).

Now Kekkei Genkais are rare because they are genetic and allow the Person to Fuse 2 Elements together that stand NOT close in line.
For example Wind + Water resulting in Ice
or Fire + Earth resulting in Lava/Magma
thus allowing them to create new Elements.

However I am confused that the Wood Element is Water + Earth. I was allways under the Assumption that Water + Earth = Mud. Oh well ._. This kind of destroys the theory, unless there is a third Element like Wind attached to the Wood Element.

Concernign the Vapour Element:
I allways thought it was a Fusion of 3 Elements: Water + Fire + Wind. Since you need a pritty Strong Fire (hence the fusion of Wind) to Vapour Water.

**Kobb** · 2012-03-02 09:04

Wood comes from the earth and requires water to feed it? Seems easy to understand.

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