Naruto

**Rhyis.** · 2012-03-26 18:28

If Naruto didn't have the fox, he would've died by episode 10 or so. Ice kid would've smoked both him and Sasuke and the show would've ended in the first season.

**Souj** · 2012-03-26 18:39

Originally Posted by Surealistic

if he wasnt the jinchuuriki, then his parents most likely wouldnt be dead, and he would have been raised by the 4th and his mom, he would have been beast mode from day 1 instead of the way it was

except the reason naruto's parents are dead is because his mom was jinjurichi( sp).

and tymon, you are correct out of context, however we were talking about "hard work" vs "natural talent", and sure, even without ninetails, he's probably got massive chakra, that is still "natural talent".

it's hard for the anime/manga to preach that everyone is equal and hard work can overcome anything, when 90% of the most beast ninja have bloodline traits.
even Lee, during the prime of his "hard work and determination overcomes all!" phase, was like "oh, sasuke's speed and strength are equal to mine, but his eyes make him way better than me"

**arus2001** · 2012-03-26 20:01

It's unknown if him simply receiving the fox stunted his chakra potential. From his childlike perspective, yeah, he did what he did through hard work, but once he entered big boy ninja land, the added perks of history and lineage certainly haven't hurt his potential. Neji, blinded by all his youthful rage and arrogance, got outsmarted by Naruto. That's got nothing to do with being an Uzumaki or Jinchuriki beyond the social stigma he knew nothing of at the time. Perhaps the bigger, and morality-driven thought to be drawn out of this (as a manga meant for kids, remember), is we're all surrounded by people gifted in ways we may not realize. Hard work is still important, but don't mock those whose talents don't seem readily apparent or even useful. They may be better than you one day.

**Souj** · 2012-03-26 21:10

switching gears because this conversation has gone on longer than i care about!
I'm still disappointed that gaara v Lee fight is still probably one of the best fights in the anime. Lee dropping those weights is probably the most awesome part of the series.
disappointed that most of the other great fights were ruined by filler and looney toons, and disappointed that Lee has only had like 2 fights, (gaara and kimimaru), and they were great entertaining fights, but then he has like nothing since

**Serif** · 2012-03-26 21:26

Originally Posted by Souj

switching gears because this conversation has gone on longer than i care about!
I'm still disappointed that gaara v Lee fight is still probably one of the best fights in the anime. Lee dropping those weights is probably the most awesome part of the series.
disappointed that most of the other great fights were ruined by filler and looney toons, and disappointed that Lee has only had like 2 fights, (gaara and kimimaru), and they were great entertaining fights, but then he has like nothing since

He had that bad ass fight where he got drunk in that one movie that is like all the others!

**Rhyis.** · 2012-03-26 21:38

The best fight is still the 3rd/Oroch fight imo.

**Vaspinne** · 2012-03-27 00:24

I have really high expectations for the Naruto + Bee vs Tobidara fight. That being said, I had really high expectations for Naruto vs Pein too, and we all know how that turned out >_>

**KCem** · 2012-03-27 02:39

I really enjoyed Jiraiya vs Pain, it was beautifully animated and really showed off the kind of top tier fight that should be expected of characters of that caliber. The fact that most of Konoha were faceraped by individual Pain bodies while J-man takes one on without using his hands is pure Boss too.

**Vaspinne** · 2012-03-27 03:30

Actually, I agree with you entirely on that one. That fight in particular was pretty fantastic, start to finish.

**Sunrider** · 2012-03-27 03:54

Originally Posted by arus2001

Perhaps the bigger, and morality-driven thought to be drawn out of this (as a manga meant for kids, remember), is we're all surrounded by people gifted in ways we may not realize. Hard work is still important, but don't mock those whose talents don't seem readily apparent or even useful. They may be better than you one day.

That is actually a pretty brilliant assessment.

Originally Posted by Souj

switching gears because this conversation has gone on longer than i care about!
I'm still disappointed that gaara v Lee fight is still probably one of the best fights in the anime. Lee dropping those weights is probably the most awesome part of the series.
disappointed that most of the other great fights were ruined by filler and looney toons, and disappointed that Lee has only had like 2 fights, (gaara and kimimaru), and they were great entertaining fights, but then he has like nothing since

Gaara vs. Lee, then Sarutobi vs. Orochimaru, then Jiraiya vs. Pain, and Minato vs. Tobi. I left out Naruto vs. Pain because, while a brilliant fight, was completely done in by the awful translation to animation.

**AvidLoki** · 2012-03-27 09:56

No one liked the Naruto vs Sasuke fight at the end of vanilla? I though that one was one of the bests imo

**AoE** · 2012-03-27 09:58

Originally Posted by AvidLoki

No one liked the Naruto vs Sasuke fight at the end of vanilla? I though that one was one of the bests imo

Was thinking the same thing.

**Odin'sLaw** · 2012-03-27 10:08

Originally Posted by AoE

Was thinking the same thing.

at the time it was seen as the best but as time has flowed like the river, looking back at "not so gifted ninja" shows you how much fun there fights were (or how much pressure they was under pun not intended in Lee's case >.>; )

**ronin sparthos** · 2012-03-27 10:21

Hate on Sauce we can but most of the fights pre-Susanoo were pretty epic. I have a soft spot in my heart for when he tries to take down Bee and gets owned for being overconfident and relying too much on eyespam.

Plus, kenjutsu is fun and the series lacks in it.

I always thought the lesson the series tried to drive home is that though you may have natural talents, overconfidence or flaunting talent can lead to self-destructive behavior (like Orochimaru, Madara or Sauce) whereas through hard work (like Jiraiya, Naruto, Bee) you can discover hidden potential or form talents you never knew you were capable of.

Oh and that ninjutsu science is freakin' awesome. Orochimaru and Kabuto will be the inspiration for a generation of future scientists and engineers, just you wait.

**Thunder** · 2012-03-27 10:26

Are these manga writers under some kind of time constraints?

Naruto could have been stretched out superduper long with as much focus on lee/neji/insect-dood/shikimaru/etc as naruto gets and fans would eat that shit up. Animated fights with lots of handsigns or hand-to-hand are the coolest imo.

Surprised nobody said kakashi and co. vs zabuza and ice boy was good. I liked that fight. And pretty much whenever oro faught it was good since there were lots of handsigns and jutsus. Him vs 9tails with 4 tails was cool to watch and a bit of an "oshit" factor of how strong he was.

**Tahona** · 2012-03-27 10:27

Late but just putting in > drunk Lee vs kimimaru (however you spell the bone guys name) was pretty awesome

**Abandon** · 2012-03-27 15:40

All the above are good, but nobody mentioned the Sauce vs. Itachi.

**Odin'sLaw** · 2012-03-27 16:42

Originally Posted by Abandon

All the above are good, but nobody mentioned the Sauce vs. Itachi.

Genjutsu battle is bullshit you know it, Kirin couldn't even make up for that shit (and hax eyes are also bull shit)

**samalis** · 2012-03-27 19:11

I liked Kakashi vs Kakazu/Hidan animated. Was pretty bad ass to see Kakashi taking on both of them.

**DrClout** · 2012-03-27 19:18

I like Sasuke vs Danzo. For an old bastard, Danzo was very capable of getting shit done.

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