Naruto

**Khajit** · 2012-05-23 21:31

Originally Posted by Eurell

Just checked the wiki, This is the 4th World war.

First World War was when Hiruzen became Hokage.

Second has 3 sannin vs. Hanzo.

3rd took place during Kakashi Gaiden.

4th is current arc.

So 4 World wars in the past 50ish years lol (guessing 50 by Hiruzen's approximate age).

I'm not too sure on the first one since those two brothers could easily age well thanks to their powers/background.
In retrospect it makes sense to see so many world wars since unlike us they have no large scale deterrents like say a Rinnegan factory. If every nation had something like that or Edo Tensei users bringing out disposable Kage level ninjas to carpetbomb cities they would be even less enthusiastic about war than they already are. Winston Churchill tried to START WW3 barely a week after WWII was finished.If it wasn't for the possibility of nuclear escalation we'd have probably had more world wars than two by now.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-05-23 22:33

Tobi specifically said he's gonna start the "4th world war" at the Kage summit.

**BadKarma** · 2012-05-23 23:32

Resolution next week? Finally

**Sho** · 2012-05-24 00:18

This motherfucker broke out a flowchart to explain his eye hax.

Was I the only person finding this shit epic?

**Vaspinne** · 2012-05-24 01:45

Originally Posted by Sho

This motherfucker broke out a flowchart to explain his eye hax.

Was I the only person finding this shit epic?

I'm right there with you.... unless you're being sarcastic, it's the internet, I can't really tell.

But besides the prolonged explanation using charts and stuff, I really did like the chapter

**KCem** · 2012-05-24 02:24

I kind of liked the explanation, but I'm struggling to understand how the Uchiha were abusing Izanagi when at best they could use it twice before being totally blinded, and that's assuming that they can use it in both eyes, and not a right/left Izanagi/Izanami deal like Amaterasu/Susanoo is. Unless they all doing what Danzo did and just stocked up on eyes.

And if there was a historic way to abuse Izanagi, then why weren't the Uchiha ruling the world rather then being a minority population of a single village ? Kishi has been great at building a rich history for the Naruto-verse, but he seems to be falling behind a little now. Unless of course I'm totally missing the point and there's something really obvious going on here.

**arus2001** · 2012-05-24 03:06

Was also under the impression the MS eyes were on the rare side, which could also cut down potential abuse since you shouldn't have too many Uchiha running around with them.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-05-24 03:21

I don't even see the reason why Kishi felt he needed to add "Izanagi was being abused" bit of information. Should've just said it was created to counter it and leave it at that.

**Drzoidburg** · 2012-05-24 05:21

Originally Posted by Hirokei Kiaza

I don't even see the reason why Kishi felt he needed to add "Izanagi was being abused" bit of information. Should've just said it was created to counter it and leave it at that.

Perhaps because he's trying to teach his readers that when they stop thinking they control life, realize life controls them, and that all they can do is react to what happens in life, THEN they'll break free from the illusion (being stuck in this world w/ seemingly shit options that none of us ever actively chose to be born into), and find that life isn't so bad (aka enlightenment).

I mean really, the entire theme is self acceptance, learning that one doesn't control life but that life happens, being "one" with the universe and not judging others..it's buddhism. But why is it buddhism? Because buddhism seemingly has the answers to this damn world from a rationally sound standpoint (sans the observations required to explain rebirth and karma which I am blissfully ignorant of or they just don't exist).

tl;dr: Kishi seems to be trying to teach his readers lessons of life through his manga. Perhaps he wanted to say more than "it was a counter" and instead say WHY it was created as a counter. Aka to educate motherfuckers about life on earth.

**Khajit** · 2012-05-24 06:22

Originally Posted by arus2001

Was also under the impression the MS eyes were on the rare side, which could also cut down potential abuse since you shouldn't have too many Uchiha running around with them.

I would guess the eyes were more common in Madara's time. There was quite a bit more natural selection going on that forced the Uchiha to learn their upgrades fast and cut down the ones that didn't vs nowadays where the ones that cant actually survive to adulthood. Ergo it's much rarer "now" because the non MS population isn't constantly being culled.

**Eurell** · 2012-05-24 06:28

@Kcem Weren't they known as the second strongest clan? Only thing that really kept them in check was the Senju, no?

@arus Don't need MS for izanagi. Danzo only had normal sharingans

I agree they could have taken out the word abusing, but maybe a it was created a few hundred years ago and it was a problem back then. True they could only use it twice at best, but if you are changing destiny in an important fight, like against another clan leader or something, 1-2 times per uchiha would be all it takes to take things over lol.

I think zoidburg is looking bit far into far things though lol. 600 pages of the lesson being 'friendship is cool' and now they throw "life controls you, try to be a buddhist" at us and cram all its lessons into 1 chapter? Idk...

**Eurell** · 2012-05-24 06:29

Originally Posted by Khajit

I would guess the eyes were more common in Madara's time. There was quite a bit more natural selection going on that forced the Uchiha to learn their upgrades fast and cut down the ones that didn't vs nowadays where the ones that cant actually survive to adulthood. Ergo it's much rarer "now" because the non MS population isn't constantly being culled.

The only known MS since Madara are him and his brother, Sasuke and Itachi, Kakashi and Shisui or whoever had that mind control MS.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-05-24 06:39

Originally Posted by Drzoidburg

snip

lol

**KCem** · 2012-05-24 08:23

Originally Posted by Eurell

@Kcem Weren't they known as the second strongest clan? Only thing that really kept them in check was the Senju, no?

I'm not disputing that, pre-massacre, they lived in what was essentially a gated community within the leaf village after accepting subservience after their champion lost against the Senju champion at the battle of the end.

This chapter has raised more questions then it has answered, if a person can only use Izanagi twice (once per eye, assuming they weren't cannibalising each other to stockpile them), then how is Izanagi able to be abused so much that a countermeasure needed to be created ? Blindness is a good enough deterrent to make it a one off trump card that you'd avoid using for as long as possible. Unless the blindness catch wasn't always there, then we'd be able to see it being used for "conceit and negligence".

Itachi states that Izanagi was used to win battles where loss wasn't an option, an army with that kid of power should have steamrolled over any competition. My query lies with why they didn't just assume control and establish themselves as the strongest clan much earlier on in the timeline, which should have been very possible given that they had an Izanagi powered army and given the historically agressive nature of the clan. Of course none of us can answer this so it's just my speculation that they "should have" been able to take first place with such a broken ability combined with the fact that basic sharingan abilities were pretty damn strong too, I doubt most battles would have even needed Izanagi.

/overthinking post over

**Eurell** · 2012-05-24 10:07

All this can be explained by just saying Senju were also broken as fuck lol.

**Odin'sLaw** · 2012-05-24 10:57

Originally Posted by Eurell

All this can be explained by just saying Senju were also broken as fuck lol.

wasn't the Senji clan like the Uzumaki clan known for having good chakra reserves? i can see having the most "stamina" been more useful the a hax 1 min or so of invincibility, i can also see the ability been used to show elders to piss off once they got to big for the breeches (remember madara went blind early from over using his eye powers but it won't shock me to find out he used the two "last resort" moves)

**Salodin** · 2012-05-24 12:17

Every ones forgetting that people would fight over taking other eyes in order to unlock (or try to) the ems. If they're using it more then twice, its cause they took an eye or two from some one else.

Madara says as much at some point, forget when though.

**Uzor** · 2012-05-24 14:12

Well, they'll probably take the eyes from whoever they defeated by using it.

He needs to stop changing the history all the time. Originally you could only get it by taking them from a brother, and then suddenly it's fine to take whoevers.

**Eurell** · 2012-05-24 14:17

That sounds familiar, but I have no idea when they talked about that. Around what chapter was it?

**Vaspinne** · 2012-05-24 16:24

Originally Posted by Uzor

Well, they'll probably take the eyes from whoever they defeated by using it.

He needs to stop changing the history all the time. Originally you could only get it by taking them from a brother, and then suddenly it's fine to take whoevers.

EMS is from a brother and only a brother. Only Madara and Sasuke are known or at least shown to have it and both got it from a brother. MS doesn't require taking anyone's eye at all. And the biggest clue towards achieving it thus far is going through some sort of mental trauma/emotional event (Itachi when Shisui died, Sasuke when Itachi died, Kakashi is unknown, but it's plausible that it's when Rin may or may not have died).

I don't think there has been a single other Uchiha that has been shown to have EMS other then the 2 I mentioned.

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