Naruto

**Salodin** · 2012-05-24 16:33

If there was, they weren't important enough in history to discuss nowadays. Although iirc, ems isn't mentioned to be only brother to brother, it just happens to be coincidence that madara & bro and sasuke & bro happen to have it.

I think madara makes mention of people killing each other for eyes during his talk with sasuke after the itachi fight, but don't quote me on that.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-05-24 16:48

I remember the conversation took place when Tobi explained the truth behind the Uchiha Massacre and the origin of the clan. MS and EMS doesn't necessarily have to be involved with Izanagi/Izanami, seems like the techniques are usable with a regular sharingan.

**Vaspinne** · 2012-05-24 16:56

You (Salodin) were close, it's actually Itachi telling Sasuke during the fight they had.

Spoiler: show

The very last image has Itachi saying that you need a siblings eyes to get the EMS. And yeah, Izanagi and Izanami aren't linked with MS/EMS, as per Danzou spamming the hell out of the first one. Him not being an Uchiha would probably explain why he had no idea about Izanami.

I retract my earlier statement of EMS being restricted to Sasuke and Madara, as clearly I was wrong

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-05-24 17:11

So I guess that clears up the whole "abusing Izanagi" statement.

**KCem** · 2012-05-24 17:38

Wasn't EMS specific to the gradual loss of eyesight that use of MS techniques caused ? Sasuke started having eyesight issues after he unlocked MS. Surely Madara would have beaten the first if he could non-stop Izanagi spam and just keep picking "the desired results".

Just wondering, would Izanami have worked on the first hokage ? He doesn't appear to fit the criteria for seeing the errors of his ways that it was designed for.

**arus2001** · 2012-05-25 00:40

I just feel like these abilities would be on that encoded slab in the Uchiha housing area. If Itachi got his MS from Shisui, Danzo having it in kind doesn't seem too far fetched. From there, he'd just have to peek at the slab, and probably knew it was there.

**Deftscythe** · 2012-05-25 07:32

Originally Posted by Vaspinne

You (Salodin) were close, it's actually Itachi telling Sasuke during the fight they had.

Spoiler: show

The very last image has Itachi saying that you need a siblings eyes to get the EMS. And yeah, Izanagi and Izanami aren't linked with MS/EMS, as per Danzou spamming the hell out of the first one. Him not being an Uchiha would probably explain why he had no idea about Izanami.

I retract my earlier statement of EMS being restricted to Sasuke and Madara, as clearly I was wrong

I'm not sure the term "siblings" should be taken as exclusive in that final panel. On the previous page, Itachi only says "clansmen". It seems to me like you could kill anyone with Sharingan and have a chance to gain EMS, but only a chance. Since the original EMS was unlocked by Madara taking his brother's eyes, some Uchiha probably thought that taking the eyes of a sibling would give the highest chance of unlocking EMS, so there was probably a decent amount of fratricide going on.

In this speech, Kishi is trying to drive home how depraved the Uchiha were. Two members of a large clan might not even necessarily have met, let alone been close. Two random Uchiha killing each other for eyes is not all that different from any other shinobi murder, but one brother killing another is always personal and always a betrayal. It's not something any clan should allow, but the Uchiha were ruthless in persuing power, so something that would've been a black mark in the history of any clan was something that happened for decades in theirs and Kishi highlights that to make his point.

TLDR; siblings probably did murder each other for EMS, but don't assume that's the only way. Of course, this is probably all moot since I think the only person left with Sharingan but not EMS is Kakashi, and he doesn't have anyone to steal the eyes from.

**Vaspinne** · 2012-05-25 07:44

Originally Posted by Deftscythe

TLDR; siblings probably did murder each other for EMS, but don't assume that's the only way. Of course, this is probably all moot since I think the only person left with Sharingan but not EMS is Kakashi, and he doesn't have anyone to steal the eyes from.

Yeah, I saw that page too and it gave me some hesitancy in posting. But regardless, it's all speculation at this point until a databook or something gets released that actually has info. And Kakashi could theoretically find Tobi's storage of Sharingans and have his pick. But I doubt that'll happen.

Or you know... Kakashi could just give back his Sharingan to Tobi... because he's Obito... yeah...

...Tobi's also Sasuke's dad too.

Edit: Was it Tobi that has a shitton of Sharingans sitting around in glass containers against a wall? Or was it Danzo? Or was it them both? I completely forget but I distinctively remember there being either a big panel or a full page spread that showed it

**Eurell** · 2012-05-25 07:52

Idk, I thought they've always been pretty clear about killing their friends for MS, and taking their brothers eyes for EMS, but you never know I guess.

**KCem** · 2012-05-25 08:01

Couldn't two MS users just like... I dunno, just... swap eyes ?

**Eurell** · 2012-05-25 08:16

Shhhhhh

**Deftscythe** · 2012-05-25 08:22

To Eurell,

My memory is a bit fuzzy at the moment, but as I recall the only people we've ever seen with EMS are Madara and Sasuke. who both got their EMS from their brother's eyes, but that could be a coincidence. Right now, for all we know, it's equally likely some guy in Uchiha history got EMS from killing his 2nd cousin or that 500 guys stole their brother's eyes and none of them unlocked EMS. I'm just sharing my interpretation of the pages Vaspinne posted.

To Kcem,
Considering how MS is unlocked, I doubt anything so pleasant would have a chance at working. Like I said above though, for all we know, people tried it. For all we know, it worked.

**Eurell** · 2012-05-25 08:26

Yeah I get that, and I might agree if it were just from the one page. But I'm pretty sure theyve said a few times that it has to be the brother, maybe Tobi explained it after the sasuke Itachi fight. Also, Tobi has never been shown to have anything but normal sharingan, I know that doesnt mean anything for this convo lol, just saying.

**Deftscythe** · 2012-05-25 08:34

I'm way too tired to go through archives and look for the tobi conversation. Like I said I'm basing this totally off what Itachi is saying in those pages. I still feel like even if it's only a brother's eyes, that it's still not 100% garaunteed to give you EMS. I just don't think there could've been a time where EMS was common after how important it's been made in the story.

Thanks for the clarification on Tobi, I thought that was the case but I wasn't sure. Will edit.

**KCem** · 2012-05-25 09:00

Kakashi was able to unlock MS without having to go through the usual means, and Sasuke technically didn't kill anyone for it either, although exactly what role Itachi's forehead poking played I don't know, he could have taught it or transferred it him, /shrug.

Although we've never seen Tobi use Amaterasu or Susanoo, his trademark space/time thing is very similar to Kakashi's MS ability, which is one of the things that has fuelled speculation for the Obito theorists out there. But y'know, doesn't mean anything, he could have learnt that at ninja school.

**Taera** · 2012-05-26 17:49

How awesome would it be if Kakashi used the same space-time thing, popped up behind Tobi, and used the 1000 Years of Death on him.

**Odin'sLaw** · 2012-05-26 18:52

Originally Posted by KCem

Sasuke technically didn't kill anyone for it either, although exactly what role Itachi's forehead poking played I don't know, he could have taught it or transferred it him, /shrug.

your brother who you've hated for the majority of your life did something he used to do from a time when you was your happiest, Sasuke got mentally owned the shock made his body ready!

**altwight** · 2012-05-27 14:58

Girlfriend was catching up on Naruto and I caught something not sure if anyone has talked about.

The lord elder frog that give prophecy to naruto tells him about he'll meet an octopus and then fight someone young with powers from the eyes.

Soooo he's fighting madara atm which could be young d00d right?

**Eurell** · 2012-05-27 15:22

Sasuke?

**altwight** · 2012-05-27 15:24

Originally Posted by Eurell

Sasuke?

obviously that's what everyone absolutely believes (even naruto) but that would be the perfect place to throw in a what the fuck and have madara be someone really young rather than really old.

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