Naruto

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-08-01 12:48

Needed more explanation points. >.>;

**Ayn** · 2012-08-01 13:10

Part of Obito's deal was most Uchiha had their sharingan unlocked by the age he was. Correlating to what we know from Naruto and such, ending up in a cell would've put them somewhere between 12-14 with their schooling obviously coming prior. I can't readily recall if Kakashi was at all involved in the Kyuubi incident, but if he was, I'd probably put him between 17-20 at that point. Naruto's now 16, putting Kakashi in the 33-36 range, which should translate to Obito give or take a year. The idea is still hard to keep together between Tobi fighting the 4th and what little of his face we've seen suggesting a guy I would put in the 50s, minimum. Kishi would have a hell of a lot of explaining to do if somehow it winds up being true.

I'm not sure if there are any databooks that give Kakashi's exact age, but that's probably an accurate estimate. I thought he was about 15-16 around the time of Kurama's attack, so.

Also, I thought Izuna was still alive after Madara ganked his eyes?

**Rhyis.** · 2012-08-01 13:16

Tobi said he died in battle while he was blind... But it's Tobi telling you that. Could just as easily have been blind Madara. Ya know, brothers looking alike and all. When Madara went blind it could've been intentional for the two brothers to swap identities to keep morale up in the Uchiha clan. Make them all believe their fearless leader was still around and kicking while Izuna runs around taking revenge for his dead brother in the guise of his name.

**Eurell** · 2012-08-01 13:25

Except we know that Madara was alive until after he fought the 1st. Christ people lol.

**Rhyis.** · 2012-08-01 13:28

You don't. You know a Uchiha with Mangekyō Sharingan, who looked like Madara, fought the 1st. Izuna fits that exact build just as well.

**Salodin** · 2012-08-01 13:45

Originally Posted by Rhyis.

You don't. You know a Uchiha with Mangekyō Sharingan, who looked like Madara, fought the 1st. Izuna fits that exact build just as well.

No, edo tenseid Madara said as much. And his explanation for acquiring the firsts power fits with his story. But none of this has any correlation to his brother, tobi is the one who told us he died, why do we believe him? Not that I'm serious with this line of thinking!!!!!!!

Doinitright?

**Deadgye** · 2012-08-01 13:46

Originally Posted by Rhyis.

You don't. You know a Uchiha with Mangekyō Sharingan, who looked like Madara, fought the 1st. Izuna fits that exact build just as well.

Except Madara fought the first. That's why he now has first-cells and the Rinnegan.

**Rhyis.** · 2012-08-01 14:22

Yeah but wasn't that just a theory presented by Kabuto? Madara's body could have acquired it another way. Kabuto or Orichimaru could have fucked around with his corpse at some point and simply lied about it.

**Eurell** · 2012-08-01 14:42

Unless you don't think edo tensai Madara is Madara, then Madara did not give up his eyes. It's not like he got EMS and went off to fight the 1st the same day. He got EMS before Konoha was even formed. So people knew Madara was still alive.

**Salodin** · 2012-08-01 14:47

Originally Posted by Rhyis.

Yeah but wasn't that just a theory presented by Kabuto? Madara's body could have acquired it another way. Kabuto or Orichimaru could have fucked around with his corpse at some point and simply lied about it.

Edo tensei madara told us he got the cells and survived the fight. The only way your theory works is if the real madara is lying, which would just be worse writing then if obito was actually tobi.

**Rhyis.** · 2012-08-01 16:07

Or he's protecting his brother. Or Kabuto was actually controlling him during that time. Who knows.

This whole series is based on the fact that ninjas continually lie to each other to gain the upper hand. Tobi and Kabuto are the biggest perpetrators of this in the entire series. Half the things we know about Madara and Izuna are based entirely on believing the two biggest trolls of the Narutoverse.

**Sho** · 2012-08-01 16:14

Originally Posted by Rhyis.

It's Madara's brother. You thought he allowed himself to be killed for his eyes? Nah son, that shit never happened. Madara was the one who died back then and Izuna has been calling himself Madara ever since.

This is correct.

How in the fuck could it be Obito, when he died at 11~13 years of age? Good god, people.

**Eurell** · 2012-08-01 16:35

So if you guys think Izuna took Madara's eyes, who the fuck is edo Madara? Is that really izuna? Can people not tell the difference between madara and his brother for some reason? What the fuck are you guys even talking about lol.

Ok, ignoring all the problems with Madara actually being his brother. What would be the point? It would just be trading one Uchiha for another and not actually answering any questions.

**Rhyis.** · 2012-08-01 16:42

He never had to take Madara's eyes, Izuna wasn't the blind one. We learned way long ago that both bros had Mangekyō Sharingan without killing their closest friend or whatever the rules are supposed to be. Dunno why, but they hacked the gene pool. And looks wise, the difference was only their hair. Same height and face.

Or maybe he did steal Madara's eyes and edo tensai just reverts the guy to his physical prime somehow. Wasn't there a sign of this already? I forget.

As to the point of it all, I think Izuna want's to resurrect his dead brother and pwnz the world together once again. Pein and Kabuto have recently fucked up that plan, but there are no doubt more options available... And by resurrect I mean actual resurrection. Not this edo tensai shit.

**Uzor** · 2012-08-01 16:50

Originally Posted by Hirokei Kiaza

I will find each and everyone of you, make my pimp hand way strong, and back slap the shit out of all of you for pushing this nonsense unto us.

- He died on a good note with no motivation for revenge, remember this is the same dude helping old ladies with their luggages.
- He was an average shinobi at best.
- He'd have to have been a teenager during the Konoha attacks when he faced Minato when it's heavily insinuated he's a grown ass man. Remember all the adults telling a teenage Kakashi, Guy, Asuma, red eye jounin chick to stay put during the incident?
- What motivation would Obito even have for manipulating the Mizukage causing a brutal rein to it's village? It was Iwagakure that attacked him, Rin and Kakashi.

If anything, I think all the slight clues we've been given so far points to Tobi not even being an Uchiha.

EDIT: And it's more then likely a character we've never even seen.

We DO know he's an Uchiha, considering he used Izanagi (sp?) to avoid Pain's attack. If he wasn't, then he would only have avoided one attack and not the entire duration of it.

I do not believe him to be Obito, but that does not exclude the possibility that he may have stolen Obito's second eye. Meaning that, if his ability to phase out comes from Obito's eye, he must have had two eyes at one point. I suppose there's a possibility that he had eyes from two different people. Perhaps one from Madara and the other from Obito? I dunno.

Another hint is that he's an Uchiha is the "Uchiha Kaenjin" ability he used in this chapter.

I'm still of the opinion that he's a "clone" that Madara created using Uchiha and Senju DNA. He did say he got access to Senju DNA in his battle with the first. Iunno, maybe Madara took Obito's remaining eye and gave it to Tobi so that he would have an eye or something, Iunno. Hell, maybe he took Madara's eye once he died and thus he had two eyes and access to Madara's genjutsu too, and perhaps that's why he could control Yagura and the tailed beast, with Madara's eye. Hell, that might be why we haven't seen him use his mangekyou sharingan; he lost it with Pain's attack and only have Obito's remaining eye left.

**Souj** · 2012-08-01 16:58

Drop this bullshit yo!
He's obviously Sasuke Sarutobi.

And drop this bullshit.

**Cleverness** · 2012-08-01 17:09

Originally Posted by Rhyis.

He never had to take Madara's eyes, Izuna wasn't the blind one. We learned way long ago that both bros had Mangekyō Sharingan without killing their closest friend or whatever the rules are supposed to be. Dunno why, but they hacked the gene pool. And looks wise, the difference was only their hair. Same height and face.

Or maybe he did steal Madara's eyes and edo tensai just reverts the guy to his physical prime somehow. Wasn't there a sign of this already? I forget.

If it reverted people to their prime, Grandma Chiyo would definitely be younger. It seems to just revert people to their last complete physical state before dying(it's just that most ninja don't live a long time to begin with so not many are old), which is why Sasori is in his human form. And the blindness point has to do with the fact that they both had MS, but Madara took Izuna's eyes to cure his blindness and achieve the EMS after abusing his MS too much.

And Tobi being Obito doesn't make much sense to me. Izuna could still be plausible since him having his eyes removed doesn't mean he's dead, as Shisui was still alive after Danzo stole one of his when he ran into Itachi afterwards, and he could very easily have gotten the eyes of someone else implanted since he's been using a normal Sharingan this whole time. There were a few instances like against Paper Bitch where using MS could have worked out better than Izanagi(which completely wastes an eye), so unless plotkai happens and he activates it soon it's safe to assume Tobi doesn't have access to it.

**Uzor** · 2012-08-01 17:23

Another reason it makes no sense he's Obito is this:

Spoiler: show

As you can see, Obito's right side is crushed, but Tobi's right side is completely OK - it seems more like his left side is fucked up. It does, however, match up with this:

Spoiler: show

So, again, it makes sense that he's a clone. We already know that the white part of Zetsu is based on Senju-DNA, so it's obvious that Zetsu is created through experiments. I've said it before, and I'll say it again; it makes sense that Zetsu was an experiment made by Madara to combine Senju and Uchiha DNA, and Tobi was created from similar experiments. You know, Yin & Yan, white and black. Senju & Uchiha.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-08-01 17:30

Originally Posted by Uzor

We DO know he's an Uchiha, considering he used Izanagi (sp?) to avoid Pain's attack. If he wasn't, then he would only have avoided one attack and not the entire duration of it.

Negative. Danzou used Izanagi as well. Using the jutsu isn't mutually exclusive to being an Uchiha, it only confirm you have a sharingan with Senju DNA.

The only thing that seems remotely Uchiha exclusive is EMS due to the whole "eyes have to come from a brother." Everything else can be bought at your local Sharingan store and then just download the apps accordingly.

**Uzor** · 2012-08-01 17:51

Read the rest of what I said;

We DO know he's an Uchiha, considering he used Izanagi (sp?) to avoid Pain's attack. If he wasn't, then he would only have avoided one attack and not the entire duration of it.

If I remember right; Danzo was only able to keep it up for 30 seconds at a time. While I suppose it could vary person to person, it seem unlikely that a non-uchiha could keep his sharingan on 24/7 AND avoid over 10 minutes of attacks per Izanagi.

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