Naruto

[Odin'sLaw]

i have a feeling the "putting out the fire" is Kamui basically since it has the same effect which means kakashi will die sasuke will show up pissed off with tobi he'll help naruto get rid of him then he'll fight naruto

[Eurell]

i have a feeling the "putting out the fire" is Kamui basically since it has the same effect which means kakashi will die sasuke will show up pissed off with tobi he'll help naruto get rid of him then he'll fight naruto

I was about to be pissed about how much sense this made, until I remembered that he cries blood or some shit when he puts it out.

[Odin'sLaw]

I was about to be pissed about how much sense this made, until I remembered that he cries blood or some shit when he puts it out.

well he's an emo....don't they all cry blood?

[Salodin]

i have a feeling the "putting out the fire" is Kamui basically since it has the same effect which means kakashi will die sasuke will show up pissed off with tobi he'll help naruto get rid of him then he'll fight naruto

what? lol. Don't know why every one is making it so difficult, the manga literally shows Sasuke slowly extinguishing the fire. Also, Amaterasu doesn't work on Tobi, quite literally the first time we see Sasuke with MS, Tobi gets caught on fire and jumps in the shadow, only to pop out 2 seconds later with a troll face.

[Rhyis.]

Troll mask, to be specific.

[Eurell]

what? lol. Don't know why every one is making it so difficult, the manga literally shows Sasuke slowly extinguishing the fire. Also, Amaterasu doesn't work on Tobi, quite literally the first time we see Sasuke with MS, Tobi gets caught on fire and jumps in the shadow, only to pop out 2 seconds later with a troll face.

I assumed he just phased through the fire lol

[Salodin]

He did.

[Gredival]

Theres not enough shown of shisui to know what his last ability would be.

But Danzo and the crow had different eyes. So the eyes both shared the same power, Geass Genjutsu, the same way Obito's eyes share the same power of Kamui.

After awakening the MS in both eyes, you can use susanoo. That is why it is called the third technique. That is why Madara does not have Amaterasu or Tsukiyomi, but can still use Susanoo.

You don't awaken Mangekyo in both eyes separately, they both evolve at the same time. Now if you mean that a user has to learn each eye's power before they unlock Susano, that doesn't make sense because Shisui and Obito's eyes both had the same powers, so how would they unlock Susano? Can eyes repeat on powers then?

All I read from Sasuke's line is that to use Susano, you need to have two Sharingans (thus meaning Kakashi or anyone else with a single stolen eye can never unlock it).

Also Itachi specifically says at one point (I think it's the fight with Sasuke when he activates Susano) that when he got his Mangekyo he unlocked all three techniques at once (something like "This is the third technique awakened that fateful night... Susano!")

Sasuke's second ability with MS is extinguishing the flames that can never be extinguished.

Or maybe Mangekyo Sharingans can extinguish the flames because they can also create them? That was always my assumption compared to being a special eye technique unique to Sasuke. There's no reason to believe Itachi nor any other Mangekyo user couldn't extinguish Amaterasu if needed. There's never been a situation where it was necessary. Amaterasu has never been used in a Sharingan dual that we've seen.

Danzo criticizes Sasuke's weak genjutsu, since Itachi's Tsukiyomi was stronger and lasted longer. Then, at the end of the fight, I believe it was Tobi that mentioned that Sasuke's genjutsu are weaker, but the trick is knowing how to use them. Sasuke doesn't stop time, nor can he manipulate the illusion however he wants like Itachi could, he just plain doesn't have Tsukiyomi.

All of that just means that Itachi was generally better at Genjutsu than Sasuke ever was. Those things aren't indicative that Sasuke doesn't have Tsukiyomi because those aren't factors in the Tsukiyomi anyway; Tsukiyomi is a very specific illusion. Sasuke used Genjutsu against Danzo to deceive him about something very simple (the eyes closed on his Sharing-arm) to win the fight because he couldn't land a killing blow against Izanagi. He already had Susano up and running I don't know why he would try Tsukiyomi at the point when Genjutsu was never his forte anyway.

Now against lesser opponents, someone else pointed out a few times where it seems pretty obvious Sasuke used Tsukiyomi.

[Eurell]

But Danzo and the crow had different eyes. So the eyes both shared the same power, Geass Genjutsu, the same way Obito's eyes share the same power of Kamui.




Or maybe Mangekyo Sharingans can extinguish the flames because they can also create them? That was always my assumption compared to being a special eye technique unique to Sasuke. There's no reason to believe Itachi nor any other Mangekyo user couldn't extinguish Amaterasu if needed. There's never been a situation where it was necessary. Amaterasu has never been used in a Sharingan dual that we've seen.



All of that just means that Itachi was generally better at Genjutsu than Sasuke ever was. Those things aren't indicative that Sasuke doesn't have Tsukiyomi because those aren't factors in the Tsukiyomi anyway; Tsukiyomi is a very specific illusion. Sasuke used Genjutsu against Danzo to deceive him about something very simple (the eyes closed on his Sharing-arm) to win the fight because he couldn't land a killing blow against Izanagi.

I'll admit that shisui's eyes leave us with a lot of questions lol. I wouldnt say that Obito's eyes have the exact same power though, as Kamui is ranged, and Tobi's ability is not.



If anyone MS could put out amerterasu, then Itachi never would have bothered having it go off when Sasuke saw Tobi's face. Why bother if he anyone can just put it out?


Also, Sasuke was better at genjutsu than Itachi. Zetsu said as much during their fight together/

[Salodin]

Spoiler: show

But Danzo and the crow had different eyes. So the eyes both shared the same power, Geass Genjutsu, the same way Obito's eyes share the same power of Kamui.



You don't awaken Mangekyo in both eyes separately, they both evolve at the same time. Now if you mean that a user has to learn each eye's power before they unlock Susano, that doesn't make sense because Shisui and Obito's eyes both had the same powers, so how would they unlock Susano? Can eyes repeat on powers then? All I read from Sasuke's line is that to use Susano, you need to have two Sharingans (thus meaning Kakashi or anyone else with a single stolen eye can never unlock it).

Also Itachi specifically says at one point (I think it's the fight with Sasuke when he activates Susano) that when he got his Mangekyo he unlocked all three techniques at once (something like "This is the third technique awakened that fateful night... Susano!")

You're correct, just need two MS to use Susanoo. We're led to assume that you don't need two separate abilities, combined, to use Susanoo, just that you need the power of MS in both eyes to use it. Something akin to not having enough juice to summon the thing w/o both eyes chuggin away at it. It's not crazy to think that two eyes can have similar or even the same ability, and what we've been shown thus far even tells us that yes, some eyes just do the same thing.

Spoiler: show

Or maybe Mangekyo Sharingans can extinguish the flames because they can also create them? That was always my assumption compared to being a special eye technique unique to Sasuke. There's no reason to believe Itachi nor any other Mangekyo user couldn't extinguish Amaterasu if needed. There's never been a situation where it was necessary. Amaterasu has never been used in a Sharingan dual that we've seen.

You say theres no reason to believe another MS user could extinguish the flames if need be, well I say to you there is no reason to believe they could. Every instance of the flames being extinguished has been because Sasuke used his other eye to do so, or Tobi phased it out. Given what we have evidence for, we have no reason to actually believe any one alive except for Sasuke has (complete) control over amaterasu. If we want to just assume every one can, then we might as well assume every one can phase through dimensions like Tobi, they just haven't actually tried to yet.

Spoiler: show

All of that just means that Itachi was generally better at Genjutsu than Sasuke ever was. Those things aren't indicative that Sasuke doesn't have Tsukiyomi because those aren't factors in the Tsukiyomi anyway; Tsukiyomi is a very specific illusion. Sasuke used Genjutsu against Danzo to deceive him about something very simple (the eyes closed on his Sharing-arm) to win the fight because he couldn't land a killing blow against Izanagi. He already had Susano up and running I don't know why he would try Tsukiyomi at the point when Genjutsu was never his forte anyway.

Now against lesser opponents, someone else pointed out a few times where it seems pretty obvious Sasuke used Tsukiyomi.

Obvious where? Where has he ever done a genjutsu that was indictive of Tsukiyomi? The only genjutsu we've seen him use was one of the sensor ninja, which knocked him out (and the demon image we see while doing so is that of Susanoo), and on Danzo, where he faked an eye being open. He never stopped time, he never had complete control to do whatever the fuck he wanted. If he could actually use Tsukiyomi, we would see the things the technique does, like turn the sky red, or give the user complete control over the reality of the target. Apparently now every one with a MS can use tsukiyomi if they do a genjutsu, just like every one has control over Amaterasu, every one has mind control eyes, and every one has Kamui.

Look, I'm not saying he doesn't have Tsukiyomi, I'm saying he hasn't used it yet. If he did, it would be obvious, like it was obvious when Itachi used it. If it helps get the idea across, think of Sasuke's MS as his own, with Itachi teaching him how to use Amaterasu. Sasuke's own ability (not gifted by Itachi) was to extinguish the perfect flames. As far as I can tell, that takes up the two slots he calls eye sockets, unless he has a hidden third ability that isn't susanoo. Either way, we haven't seen it yet or it doesn't exist.

[Ayn]

Look, I'm not saying he doesn't have Tsukiyomi, I'm saying he hasn't used it yet.

I can almost agree with this.. but can we all agree that we don't have enough information either way?

Also, maybe the reason we don't see it as a specific technique (Sasuke putting the fires out, that is) is because it's not named. If we really wanted to be picky, we could argue his Enton technique could be a second ability.

Though, maybe this will help clarify:

Databook entry for Susano'o:

http://www.narutobrazil.com/t36463-2...i-sumi-bunshin

Translation of that (supposedly):

Spoiler: show

"The two doujutsu that only those who have awakened the Mangekyo sharingan, heavenly eyes that see without obstruction the truth of all creation, have the permission to use: Amaterasu, representing the "light of the material world" and "Tsukuyomi", symbolizing "darkness of the spiritual world. "Dwelling only on those who have mastered both techniques is the power of a storm god ... "Susanoo", the materialized chakra takes the form of a god of war with an imposing face and a powerful appearance. His fierce spirit will not calm down until it has destroyed all the enemies before your eyes."

[Deadgye]

Against Bee (Chapter 413, page 9)
While finding Bee (Chapter 408, page 3)
Fighting C' (Chapter 462, page 6).

I can see where you all are coming from, since Sasuke never explicitly says "Tsukuyomi" when activating it. However, 2 of the 3 cases, you see his eye take the Mangekyo shape (against C, you don't see this). Afterwards, you see him clutching his eye.

Why are you all ignoring this? He's obviously using Tsukuyomi with his right eye. You don't go mangekyou and start bleeding for a normal genjutsu. He's Itachi's brother. It's not surprising for their eyes to have the same abilities.

Looking back at when he fights bee. It looks like he utilizes both of his eyes to put out Amaterasu. This shit is confusing.

[Salodin]

Why are we ignoring the tale tell signs of tsukiyomi, the changing sky and control of reality.

Fine, let's meet at the middle ground and say he has a MS version of a genjutsu, but it isn't tsukiyomi. K?

[Gredival]

Why are we ignoring the tale tell signs of tsukiyomi, the changing sky and control of reality.

Fine, let's meet at the middle ground and say he has a MS version of a genjutsu, but it isn't tsukiyomi. K?

For B, it's because he's broken out of the jutsu before it takes effect. For the other two I don't remember for sure, but I don't believe either of those examples show what happens to the victim -- they simply keel over. Which is what it would look to everyone else when someone gets hit by a Tsukiyomi.

[Salodin]

You see the genjutsu on the sensor ninja, and it looked like susanoo was raping his mind. And you see fucking itachi...that IS the genjutsu.

[RedRed]

Always thought Tsukuyomi was just a genjutsu cast w/ their eyes rather than with seals. Seeing as genjustsu are just illusions, they could look like anything...

[Odin'sLaw]

doesn't c hit the floor and sweat his bollocks off after he is hit with the genjutsu? we already know sasuke's isn't that strong but why use bacon when you can use a meaty portion of steak?

http://www.mangareader.net/93-31099-...apter-462.html

by the seems of it he shows him the power of susano but is drawn with his normal sharingan

[Deadgye]

Why are we ignoring the tale tell signs of tsukiyomi, the changing sky and control of reality.

Fine, let's meet at the middle ground and say he has a MS version of a genjutsu, but it isn't tsukiyomi. K?

You've confused yourself with what tsukiyomi actually is if you think Sasuke's doesn't count. Did you forget that Tobi's master plan is an infinite tsukiyomi? Tsukiyomi is a powerful genjutsu that is cast with the eyes, or more specifically the mangekyou sharingan. Itachi's prowess with genjutsu allowed him to control time within the illusion. Sasuke simply isn't good enough to do that.

If you still disagree after than, I'd rather just stop pursuing it since all that mattered was that he was using his left eye to cast a mankgeyou only genjutsu.

[Salodin]

I can't view the previous link on my phone, but didn't they say he was casting it with a normal sharingan?

[Odin'sLaw]

I can't view the previous link on my phone, but didn't they say he was casting it with a normal sharingan?

the panel is just his normal eyes not his MS eyes so...