Naruto

**Rhyis.** · 2012-09-19 23:52

Styles make fights? I dunno.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-09-19 23:59

Wrong thread bro.

**Rhyis.** · 2012-09-20 00:07

Always relevant.

**Ayn** · 2012-09-20 00:11

Probably how he lost his eyes. This seems more plausible by the second.

I'd believe it.

Madara's sitting on his bed blind. Izuna's sitting there looking with pity at his bro. Then he finds a way to delicately say "Hey by the way bro, that one girl you had your eye on? Well last night I kinda..well, you know. Gotta continue the clan right? See no evil?" Laughs it off.

Madara's writhing in pain on the bed, hears that, and is like "Oh FUCK NO." and in an act born of pure rage, gouges out Izuna's eyes, transplants them into his own.

The next day the rest of the Uchiha are like "The heck happened to Izuna?"

And Izuna starts to say "Well--"

Madara breaks in with "You fell."

"Yeah. I fell. Down. A lot of stairs. Poked my eyes on some kunai."

"Right. He fell. He's always been clumsy like that."

Then someone remarks about Madara's eyes looking a little different.

Madara looks at that person. Reiterates. "He fell. It is kind of slippery around here. I'd hate you to fall too."

Dude shuts up.

There. Real backstory.

**Khajit** · 2012-09-20 00:11

Originally Posted by Hirokei Kiaza

I'm still calling this Hashirama being this ultra powerful get on your knees, suck his dick to pay respect, my wood jutsu fucks up the world status a huge ass retcon. This nigga wasn't all that particularly impressive against the 3rd Hokage and there's no reason to believe he was weaker then his real life counter-part due to Edo Tensei. It's just such a dramatic turn around lol.

Kabuto saying he has a better grasp of Edo Tensei can be argued he can just control more people, letting the zombie go batshit insane at their fullpower isn't indicative of anything he specifically improved on.

Kabuto probably just has far better control. Orochimaru couldn't even consider the idea of letting those two run around full blast or even do anything but stand there with their minds fully intact while he plopped in his little command paper. The more control you exert over an Edo Tensei the weaker the summoned being gets so given just how little brainpower Orochimaru left them they were clearly heavily nerfed in order to prevent rebellion. Madara being able to abuse Edo tensei through it's one weakness also indicates that perhaps Orochimaru simply could not outright allow them to do anything or else the situation would be reversed in the worst way imaginable.

Even if it is a retcon; it's a retcon consistent with the rules of Edo tensei that currently have been spelled out.

**Rhyis.** · 2012-09-20 00:13

Originally Posted by Ayn

"You fell."

Legit lol

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-09-20 00:16

Originally Posted by Ayn

Madara looks at that person. Reiterates. "He fell. It is kind of slippery around here. I'd hate you to fall too."

LOL!

**Abandon** · 2012-09-20 00:32

ROFL

**Ayn** · 2012-09-20 00:59

Kabuto probably just has far better control. Orochimaru couldn't even consider the idea of letting those two run around full blast or even do anything but stand there with their minds fully intact while he plopped in his little command paper. The more control you exert over an Edo Tensei the weaker the summoned being gets so given just how little brainpower Orochimaru left them they were clearly heavily nerfed in order to prevent rebellion. Madara being able to abuse Edo tensei through it's one weakness also indicates that perhaps Orochimaru simply could not outright allow them to do anything or else the situation would be reversed in the worst way imaginable.

Even if it is a retcon; it's a retcon consistent with the rules of Edo tensei that currently have been spelled out.

This raises a pretty good point. I mean we can't say it with certainty, but since Tobirama was the one who invented the jutsu, presumably, if given full control, he would have been able to pull a Madara and hang around.

**RedRed** · 2012-09-20 01:52

Originally Posted by Rhyis.

They call it a bloodline limit, but Hashirama was the only person to ever use it from his bloodline. So it's probably something that took him decades of mastering. Tsuande might be able to use the techniques if she ever attempted to learn the shit. Or Mr awesome first hokage would teach all his blood relatives to use this pwn justu... Which you'd think you'd want to considering it's called the most powerful technique in the ninja world.

But, ya know, plotjutsu.

Didn't they explain bloodline limits as being able to mold 2 different chakra types? I mean, way back at the start of the manga, I thought I remembered them saying not everyone in a bloodline could unlock it (even Uchiha's didnt all get sharingahax, though there's so fucking many that this seems bullshit now)

**Vaspinne** · 2012-09-20 05:28

Originally Posted by RedRed

Didn't they explain bloodline limits as being able to mold 2 different chakra types? I mean, way back at the start of the manga, I thought I remembered them saying not everyone in a bloodline could unlock it (even Uchiha's didnt all get sharingahax, though there's so fucking many that this seems bullshit now)

A bloodline is created when you can combine 2 elements to form a new element (or in the case of the old man Kage and Muu, 3 elements together to create the dust element).

I think the whole 3rd vs the 1st and 2nd can be chalked up to the plot just not going anywhere in the direction it's going in now. How many years ago was that fight? After watching Bakuman, I'm more then convinced that Kishi had a very basic idea of where he wanted the plot of Naruto to go and has since changed it around here and there. Orochimaru was looking to be the main baddie for a long time, and then bam, he's beaten by Sasuke, and then bam, he pops out again only to be beaten a couple pages later by Itachi again. And he was gone for soooooo long and all of a sudden, he's back again. This whole Uchiha vs Senju stuff, the Rinnegan being an advanced version of the Sharingan, Tobi/Obito/Madara stuff, etc , etc, etc. I'm not going to say that Kishi hasn't been thinking about all this stuff all along, but I will say that it's not hard to believe that he hasn't had it set in stone at all and has allowed the story to change based on character/chapter polls and just how he feels about the story in general.

**vadre** · 2012-09-20 05:39

I think I remember someone saying that Kishi said in an interview his perspective changed after becoming a parent and the story sort of changed because of it. When you look at the whole story under that context it's pretty obvious that it played a part in the U-turn that's occured post-time skip (since kakuzu was downed really) in terms of underlying trends.

Part 1 and some of part 2 had a focus on training and personal strength, with hard work being able to rival genius if you have the desire and will. The new generation would surpass the older generation through work and training because kids are great.
Now we've got OMGSUPERPARENTS and ancestors who grant super saiyan powers to their offspring, and heritage completely and absolutely dominating hard work. All of the characters who weren't geniuses or granted hax by bloodlines/bijuu have been totally and utterly forgotten. Kishi's focus has switched from having great friends to having great parents and he kinda shat on the original story in the process.

**Damane** · 2012-09-20 07:18

Originally Posted by Ayn

This raises a pretty good point. I mean we can't say it with certainty, but since Tobirama was the one who invented the jutsu, presumably, if given full control, he would have been able to pull a Madara and hang around.

I dont think that tobirama invented Edo-Tensei. At least that was never clearly stated. The only persons you see useing Edo-Tensei are Orchoimaru and Kabutochimaru. And even Orochimaru mentions it as a forbidden olde jutsu. I guess its just a jutsu made from someone waaaaay back.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-09-20 08:03

They've said it multiple times it was the second Hokage who created Edo Tensei lol.

**Eurell** · 2012-09-20 08:08

Originally Posted by Hirokei Kiaza

They've said it multiple times it was the second Hokage who created Edo Tensei lol.

^

**Salodin** · 2012-09-20 09:35

So some quick fact checks, cause I hate coming into this thread when theres 2 new pages, only for it all to be filled with shit people apparently forget.

As far as the Third kicking the Firsts ass, it was stated before that the 3rd was the strongest ninja Konoha ever produced (probably not so now, but pre-time skip at least); so it makes sense how he held his own against the 1st, 2nd, and Orochi; also don't forget that the only reason he even lost/tied that fight was because the nig was just old (as said in the manga/anime).

It's been said before that Tsunade is the 1st's grand daughter, so even though Wood Jutsu is bloodline limit, it's probably just something no one else can do (especially if they don't have water and earth elemental, which is the combination that Yamato said makes Wood Jutsu). We don't know what elements Tsunade has, but again it probably doesn't even matter. We had this discussion before, even if you could manipulate the correct elements, unless you are of that bloodline, you probably can't recreate that bloodline limit (probably because of the way chakra mixes, w/e it's not important any ways).

Now, the Uzumaki clan was wiped out at some point, forget when. Basically, Naruto is the last Uzumaki (Pain was one too). The two villages were tight back in the day. They were famous for some special chakra they had, plus their sealing techniques. It's never been alluded that any one else has this special chakra, but the sealing techniques are just knowledge, and probably some of it is kept in Konoha (you'd imagine so, what are they gonna do when Naruto dies and they need to use an awesome seal to reseal the 9 tails).

Lastly, the 2nd is the creator of Edo Tensei. Orochi mastered it further, by being able to summon more people at once (just in case some one tries to bring it up, he failed to summon the 4th because he was already sealed when he fought the 9 tails, not because the 3rd stopped it. The 3rd should have realized this at the time since he was there, but plothole no jutsu). Kabuto pretty much fully mastered it, by being able to summon practically an army with it, and control them simultaneously.

Anything else before we continue this? I feel like we need to do this every so often cause it gets quite annoying repeating shit we should already know...lol.

**Xno Kappa** · 2012-09-20 09:49

Sasuke chick that gets bit all the time to heal people is an Uzumaki too.

**vadre** · 2012-09-20 09:50

Originally Posted by Salodin

Now, the Uzumaki clan was wiped out at some point, forget when. Basically, Naruto is the last Uzumaki (Pain was one too). The two villages were tight back in the day. They were famous for some special chakra they had, plus their sealing techniques. It's never been alluded that any one else has this special chakra, but the sealing techniques are just knowledge, and probably some of it is kept in Konoha (you'd imagine so, what are they gonna do when Naruto dies and they need to use an awesome seal to reseal the 9 tails).

Fact checkin the fact checks; Karin's an Uzumaki too, Kabuto told Sasuke during the fight when he was talking about mugging people for their abilities.

Personal opinion, but I think the thing about the third being the strongest ninja has just been straight up retconned. Madara talks about how he was weaker than Hashi but has the perfect susanoo cleaving mountains etc. It just seems like in order to keep up with the crazy power climb that's gone on in the series he pretty much turned the first into a god.

**Ayn** · 2012-09-20 10:17

As far as the Third kicking the Firsts ass, it was stated before that the 3rd was the strongest ninja Konoha ever produced (probably not so now, but pre-time skip at least); so it makes sense how he held his own against the 1st, 2nd, and Orochi; also don't forget that the only reason he even lost/tied that fight was because the nig was just old (as said in the manga/anime).

I don't think it was said the third was the "strongest", but something along the lines of he knew the most jutsu of any ninja Konoha produced (didn't he have the nickname "the professor" or such?).

Don't get me wrong: I think that in his prime, dude was damn near Hashirama/Tobirama tier.

**kuronosan** · 2012-09-20 10:28

Didn't the 3rd just straight up run out of chakra?

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