Naruto

[Ivaden]

[quote=Zeno McDohl][quote=Ivaden]

Epic bullshit indeed. Sasuke > pre-TS Kakashi now? Wtf?

I'm not sure why you're surprised Sasuke is better than Kakashi. He's arguably a more important character, that alone would make him stronger than Kakashi eventually, but he also trained with Orochimaru lol.

An important character does not necessarily mean the character has to be strong.

Sure, he trained with Oro. But Minato (4th hokage) was the sensei of Kakashi.

I guess this is your first shonen manga.[/quote:a24vpavg]

Not at all. If you want examples, look at Chad from Bleach.[/quote:a24vpavg]

Point taken, but I still don't see why you're surprised Sasuke is stronger than Kakashi was before the timeskip. Only thing that makes (made, pre-time skip) Kakashi any good is the Sharingan, which is obviously better in the hands (eye sockets...?) of an actual Uchiha.

[The_OG_Nelta]

I want both of them to win ._. go me?

[Zeno McDohl]

[quote=Ivaden][quote=Zeno McDohl]

Epic bullshit indeed. Sasuke > pre-TS Kakashi now? Wtf?

I'm not sure why you're surprised Sasuke is better than Kakashi. He's arguably a more important character, that alone would make him stronger than Kakashi eventually, but he also trained with Orochimaru lol.

An important character does not necessarily mean the character has to be strong.

Sure, he trained with Oro. But Minato (4th hokage) was the sensei of Kakashi.

I guess this is your first shonen manga.

Not at all. If you want examples, look at Chad from Bleach.[/quote:2m9xxejq]

Point taken, but I still don't see why you're surprised Sasuke is stronger than Kakashi was before the timeskip. Only thing that makes (made, pre-time skip) Kakashi any good is the Sharingan, which is obviously better in the hands (eye sockets...?) of an actual Uchiha.[/quote:2m9xxejq]

To be honest, I'm a Sasuke fan. But so far Sasuke has essentially "deflected" some of the strongest jutsu we've seen. Of course Kishi is a Sasuke-whore, so I suppose that is to be expected. But to go as far as nearly proving Sasuke > pre-TS Kakashi just seemed a bit much.

[Akiyama]

and not just > than Pre-TS Kakashi, but >>> because he seemed to break out fairly quickly while Kakashi had to be put up in the hospital, I believe.

[Krye]

and not just > than Pre-TS Kakashi, but >>> because he seemed to break out fairly quickly while Kakashi had to be put up in the hospital, I believe.

Love how the weaker characters become ten thousand times stronger, but the stronger characters don't grow in strength at all.

[Ivaden]

To be honest, I'm a Sasuke fan. But so far Sasuke has essentially "deflected" some of the strongest jutsu we've seen. Of course Kishi is a Sasuke-whore, so I suppose that is to be expected. But to go as far as nearly proving Sasuke > pre-TS Kakashi just seemed a bit much.

Well... Sasuke is a bit overpowered, I'd agree with that idea if that's what you were suggesting. However, up until recently we've only seen what I would refer to as "filler fights" with the exception of a few obvious ones like Jiraiya/Pain, Naruto/Orochimaru (and Naruto/Kakuzu), but of course those are subject to what I feel is important. I think Sasuke's increased strength is just preparing us to scale the power of everyone else as well. It's just like DBZ, Frieza was a bad ass in the beginning like say... Zabuza was. But then Cell was even more of a bad ass like Gaara, for example. They're all going to get stronger, and some moreso than others.

[Boyiee]

I don't know what the big deal is with comparing sasuke to Kakashi... really, you should know hes stronger. It's pointless to even discuss.

Kakashi said fucking naruto has become stronger than him, and he trained for 3 years with a sannin, just... like... sasuke... If Sasuke wasn't stronger now than kakashi, wouldn't that make Naruto leaps ahead of sasuke? They are keeping them evenly matched just like always, except we are seeing alot more new tactics and moves from sasuke where we've only seen brute strength from naruto - that and apparently he can learn super crazy techniques pretty quickly.

I mean... sasuke has 2 fucking eyes, doesn't that give him an advantage? Kakashi is just a normal ninja, he doesn't have his own bloodline or anything, he has another sharingan users eye and doesn't have the chakra of a sharingan user. Sasuke does, there should be no discussion about the subject. Compare 2 other people or something...

[Love how the weaker characters become ten thousand times stronger, but the stronger characters don't grow in strength at all.

Well I don't see kakashi going off to train with Jiraiya or Tsunade or anything. Only the kids have, the 3 kids that were kakashi's students all trained with Sannin for 3 years. I would compare Sakura to kakashi, she's the only one without any bloodline just like him, but he has a half-boost.

[Eaglestrike]

I agree with most of what Boyiee said. Kakashia a long long time ago said that Sasuke and Naruto had more potential than him, Naruto has passed it and that's been said, it should be obvious that Sasuke has done the same.

Kakashi from very early has always been promoted and shown off as a SMART ninja and that's how he wins battles. Take his first fight for instance with Zabuza. He freaked him out at their first confrontation with mimicing his techniques perfectly. That's not Kakashi showing off his power, that's him being smart. And lets not forget that ninjas grow in different ways. For instance it was referenced that the Fourth mentored Kakashi, but the Fourth never got past one of the earlier Rasengan stages (which is basically = chidori) and we've seen Naruto surpass that so it should be obvious Sasuke is going to have advanced chidori as well. But the fourth also was extremely powerful in other ways, obviously he knew a sealing jutsu as well as his super speed jutsu. The fourth seems to have centered around speed, Kakashi is about intelligence, Sasuke is about his power/eyes/hatred and Naruto is about the Kyuubi and his never surrender, never lose hope outlook.

Also, remember that this story is about Naruto and Sasuke. While it helps create context and an interesting world if this is "just another in the line of shinobi" this is about a special age in the world of shinobi, which will soon be remade because of the power currently being grown through the world. Obviously stronger ninja are going to be in the story. If the older people were always more powerful, shouldn't the story have been about them to begin with?

[Maguspk]

What he said^

Kakashi is a smart ninja not an "OMFG CHAKRA SPAM" ninja. He's more akin to Shikamaru in that despite his relatively small chakra pool he can make it count and win fights. Kakashi can only do like 3 Chidoris a day, his chakra pool is shit. But he manages it so well and is so tactful that we tend to over estimate his raw power based on his rate of success.

[Parshias]

My problem with the manga is that we haven't had a real Naruto fight since the freaking time skip. Every single fight Naruto has been in is either really short, Naruto gets treated like a punk, or his opponent runs off at some point. If I remember correctly, his fight with the dude with multiple hearts, aka the only fight Naruto has had that ended in him winning and it not being a cocktease, was just Naruto showing up and going "fuck you man I HAVE A NUKE!"

Please let's have a fight where Naruto actually does something and then WINS. Something like his older fights against Kiba, Neji, Gaara! Please stop riding Sasuke's dick.

[Lee]

My problem with the manga is that we haven't had a real Naruto fight since the freaking time skip. Every single fight Naruto has been in is either really short, Naruto gets treated like a punk, or his opponent runs off at some point. If I remember correctly, his fight with the dude with multiple hearts, aka the only fight Naruto has had that ended in him winning and it not being a cocktease, was just Naruto showing up and going "fuck you man I HAVE A NUKE!"

Please let's have a fight where Naruto actually does something and then WINS. Something like his older fights against Kiba, Neji, Gaara! Please stop riding Sasuke's dick.

I heard that 2008 is the 'year of sasuke' (according to Kishi working on Sasuke a lot during this year), unfortunately.

[Krye]

If focusing on Sasuke brings Itachi into the picture more often, I welcome it wholeheartedly.

[Blarg]

Frankly I don't find Naruto all that special/exciting so if this year is more about Sasuke then thats great since his fights have all been far more exciting. Maybe the anime has just killed Naruto (the character) for me because I can only take so much of the same 2 moves repeated over and over.

[Ivaden]

If focusing on Sasuke brings Itachi into the picture more often, I welcome it wholeheartedly.

QTF. Wouldn't mind seeing more Neji, too, but I doubt that'll really ever happen. I really liked his background story, but for fucks sake his team can stay the hell out. Absolutely hate his team.

Oh, and I still want the fight between Suigetsu and Kisame that was hinted to like two months ago.

[Krye]

[Love how the weaker characters become ten thousand times stronger, but the stronger characters don't grow in strength at all.

Well I don't see kakashi going off to train with Jiraiya or Tsunade or anything. Only the kids have, the 3 kids that were kakashi's students all trained with Sannin for 3 years. I would compare Sakura to kakashi, she's the only one without any bloodline just like him, but he has a half-boost.

Itachi also beat Orochimaru years ago with ease, whereas Sasuke states that he only beat him because Oro was weakened.

And now Sasuke is holding his own against Itachi.

Makes perfect sense.

[Ivaden]

Except Orochimaru never fought Itachi because he was too scared, and instead opted to target Sasuke because he wasn't as intimidating as a kid.

Well, maybe he "tried" to fight Itachi.

[Krye]

Except Orochimaru never fought Itachi because he was too scared, and instead opted to target Sasuke because he wasn't as intimidating as a kid.

Well, maybe he "tried" to fight Itachi.

Yeah, he tries and Itachi cuts his fucking hand off.

[Yangsing]

I vaguely remember seeing a screen of itachi standing over orochimaru while he's hunched over. Could be wrong.

[Ivaden]

Because he cut off his hand. Orochimaru went straight for the body takeover though, don't think there was really a fight.

[Scythiroth]

I heard that 2008 is the 'year of sasuke' (according to Kishi working on Sasuke a lot during this year), unfortunately.

If this is true then I might be done with this series. I've never really liked Sasuke and was actually getting excited about the stuff going on in the manga because it looked like he was gone, but no, it was all an illusion.

Whatever happened to the fight Naruto is actually in right now anyways? Wasn't he fighting Tobi then it randomly went off into this Sasuke story?