Company Sword

[Ferien]

I don't know damage formulas so someone explain this to me. Since the crit with 6 people was less than previously expected, does this mean its slightly worse than anticipated, atleast with 6 people?

If possible, is there anyway could you test Sirius axe like this (srsly?).

It was just an error in my assumptions. I didn't even think of WRANK as being a constant number, and assumed that the floor(DMG/9) portion of the calculation would change with Company's "Base Damage" as I added more members to the party. Holding WRANK constant at 5, however, makes the numbers predictable, and the 201 crit with a full party is completely expected.

Basically, whether or not the number is added as part of its listed base damage or it's added as a separate value is irrelevant, since if WRANK is held constant, they'll both function in the exact same way. My tests now show that Company Sword does have the hidden effect it was always rumored to have, and they serve as further proof that WRANK is constant no matter what.

[LinktheDeme]

I assume this doesnt work for alliance members?

[Ferien]

Anecdotal evidence says WS yes, Alliance no. I have access to 4 accounts though, so I'll probably be back with some tests once I return from campus.

[Edgie]

I guess to me its just not that big a deal how its actually calculated. I just know its been proven that damage went up parallel to amount of party members, and thats all I really needed to know.

[Plow]

Just curious to make sure I'm understanding what this implies

Basically, what you're saying is that while the "dmg" goes up as it should, the fstr cap is lower than it would be if the "wrank" were higher?

[aurik]

Just curious to make sure I'm understanding what this implies

Basically, what you're saying is that while the "dmg" goes up as it should, the fstr cap is lower than it would be if the "wrank" were higher?

Yes. Essentially the max potential damage of a company sword in a full party will be slightly less than another "always 54dmg" sword, because the always 54dmg sword will have a higher fSTR cap.

Not that you'll be hitting the fSTR cap on anything that matters, so it's not all that important. But interesting info nevertheless.

[Plow]

Just curious to make sure I'm understanding what this implies

Basically, what you're saying is that while the "dmg" goes up as it should, the fstr cap is lower than it would be if the "wrank" were higher?

Yes. Essentially the max potential damage of a company sword in a full party will be slightly less than another "always 54dmg" sword, because the always 54dmg sword will have a higher fSTR cap.

Not that you'll be hitting the fSTR cap on anything that matters, so it's not all that important. But interesting info nevertheless.

That's what I was thinking. So have you ever figured out like at what point it becomes impossible to hit the fSTR cap?

I'm curious as to how it could apply to some random stuff like maneater vs woodsville's in dynamis-sandy or other places in that kind of mob strength range if you can manage to actually get up to the cap on some of the weakass shit that's in there.

I'm guessing the difference would be negligible if it even mattered, but who knows, and some people's favorite things about these games is theorycrafting so yeah here's some fuel for the fire hehe.

[aurik]

Just curious to make sure I'm understanding what this implies

Basically, what you're saying is that while the "dmg" goes up as it should, the fstr cap is lower than it would be if the "wrank" were higher?

Yes. Essentially the max potential damage of a company sword in a full party will be slightly less than another "always 54dmg" sword, because the always 54dmg sword will have a higher fSTR cap.

Not that you'll be hitting the fSTR cap on anything that matters, so it's not all that important. But interesting info nevertheless.

That's what I was thinking. So have you ever figured out like at what point it becomes impossible to hit the fSTR cap?

I'm curious as to how it could apply to some random stuff like maneater vs woodsville's in dynamis-sandy or other places in that kind of mob strength range if you can manage to actually get up to the cap on some of the weakass shit that's in there.

I'm guessing the difference would be negligible if it even mattered, but who knows, and some people's favorite things about these games is theorycrafting so yeah here's some fuel for the fire hehe.

On typical mobs in the easy merit camps I tend to have base dmg of 63-64, my cap as a mnk with spharai is 68. Which means with ~100 strength I still need another 18-20 strength to cap out. In a more difficult merit camp, I need more like 25-30 strength. 125 is a lot of str to be TPing in.

[DreizehnOfSiren]

For anyone who's interested, finally did a real test on the fucking thing. It does indeed have a hidden effect:

Damage = ( D + fSTR + 2n ) * pDIF, where n = (party size) - 2

The direct quote from where I originally posted it on KI:

Finished the tests. Results are:
Max Crits:
1 member: 177
2 members: 177
3 members: 183
4 members: 189
5 members: 195
6 members: 201

This actually tells us something completely unexpected: Company Sword adds to the calculation of Base Damage, not to the actual DMG rating on the weapon. Here's the reasoning:
Theoretical DMG ratings:
1 - 46
2 - 46
3 - 48
4 - 50
5 - 52
6 - undefined

Following the trend, with 6 members we should have a base damage of 54. Unfortunately, we run into a problem mathematically.
54 + floor( 54 / 9 ) +8 = 54 + 6 + 8 = 68
68 * 3 = 204

If Company increased the base DMG directly, I would have seen a crit of 204. However, I did not. Therefore, without further ado, the damage formula modified for Company Sword:
Damage = (D + fSTR + 2n) * pDIF, where n = (number of members in your party) - 2

The Wiki has been updated to reflect this information.

I'll post the screenshots if anyone wants to see, but I doubt anyone cares enough. I half expect to be moved to the newb forum >.>

Not sure if you saw this on the thread that is now locked (thanks SaintDale or whoever).

Not really. All that has happened is that the Rank on the weapon has not actually changed even though the damage rating has changed. The rank for this weapon no matter how many people are in your party will always be defined as floor(46/9). This is done in all latent damage increase weapons and is easily seen in things such as a blau dolch dagger that would also jump a rank and when soloing with a Mensur epee. The weapon rank is always based off the original damage rating.

So for a party of 6 what you get is this:

[54+8+floor(46/9)]*3=201.

I double checked it, and you get the same numbers you got, even the 6-person party one. Nice work on finally getting some good numbers for it.

Edit: Found out you did respond, just seems like this formula would be better to post, since it seems more accurate with your results.

[Ferien]

Yea I saw it Dreizehn. Like I said, I didn't know that weapon rank was held as a constant, and it didn't occur to me to think of it as such. Holding it constant at 5, though, gives predictable results.

Anyway, sorry about not getting the other tests done. I haven't forgotten though, I'll get them done.