FFXI Wiki Misinformation

[aurik]

As a forum Admin I can say this for certain:

Regarding "Misinformation"

One of the things *I* love about the wiki is that misinformation can be corrected. I've fixed numerous things on there. In fact, as mentioned above, there was a debate about xp. I was pretty certain I was right. But I got proved wrong. When I was proved wrong, the thing got changed.

However, the problem with the Paralysis discussion, and the OP's original comments are: instead of discussing it rationally, people have gone ahead and attempted to do edit wars. This is pointless and distructive. It happened on the xp page. People kept editing back and forth and not discussing it on the talk page. When all the information came out on the talk page, people like me were proved wrong. Okay then. The correct result was then placed on the front page. So instead of 50 edits back and forth which accomplished nothing, the discussion page solved everything.

As for the Paralysis page, the edits, as it currently stands, states exactly what all the dissenters are saying. There is *no* real need to have these qualifiers like *everyone* and *strongly.* Additionally, it wasn't until half way down the page before people actually started presenting *any* proof one way or the other. Even the dissenters just said, "The whole community says X" without a link. As I said, the link only showed up half way through the debate.

As an Admin, I've elected to stay out of the discussion. I have vague memories of Paralyze stopping mob TP moves, but can't remember it ever stopping a melee WS. Then again, I'm a mage. And my vague memories mean nothing and provide no proof either way. Albeit, after reading the arguments, I'm tending to agree that Paralyze does not affect WSs or Mob TP moves.

In sum, the ONLY way pages get locked is if children go in and attempt to do an edit war. If that is your method for resolving disputes, then the page will get locked. If you don't want it locked, don't be childish and start an edit war. Start a discussion on the talk page instead.

Finally, if the information is wrong ... change it!!! For heaven's sake, we don't want incorrect information. That's why we made it a wiki, so that you could go in a fix it. No one website is always going to be correct. Even a BG Wiki will have errors. The fact that it is a wiki allows people to go and correct it.

Except you can't change a wiki when the admin preemptively locks a page enshrining false information

There was no edit war going on, I simply said if no evidence is found in a reasonable time-frame to support the claim, I'm just going to remove it from the main page. This caused Nynaeve to flip out and lock the page. As well, it apparently irritated her so much that she called me immature, arrogant, and childish...not only that but taking the time to go back and insert more insults after her initial message was written.

It's my opinion that Nynaeve is a bad admin. Another example of why is what happened when the "new user image policy" was implemented: within minutes of the policy being decided, she brazenly deleted any and all images not subscribing to the policy without so much as a warning to the end users. I'm sure you remember the outcome of that.

A third example is her refusal to concede on the AfD for the breads & rice category. Currently it's something like 4-2, but she refuses to accept the result and instead is leaving it open indefinitely, even though all the interested parties have posted their opinion and clearly her opinion is in the minority.

Flipping out when someone proves you wrong is exactly the kind of person that you should avoid giving admin priviledges on an open wiki.

[Jeryhn]

It's little "edit wars" and people wanting to take particular credits for things that caused me to create an account at FFXI Wiki but never submit any edits because other people would rather have the credit.

While this whole episode has people in the wrong on both sides, I think we can agree upon the fact that you guys at Wiki simply had a rogue admin who not only tried to discredit submitted evidence, but was unable to produce their own, or reference to any opposing evidence found anywhere. The point was that the people here at BG were trying to quell an obviously untrue rumor, and said admin did everything in their power to prevent that, defeating the purpose of the wiki format entirely.

Also for the record, Paralyze will never stop an Avatar's Bloodpact once the summoner has executed the command, and on a programming level, avatars are considered "friendly mobs" and the Bloodpacts are considered their "TP abilities".

If you wish to correct the wiki concerning the effect of Paralyze on mob characters at the very least, feel free to reference this thread and the following captions from my Compilation of Bloodpact Info, which is already linked to the Wiki.

☼ The Bloodpact command is a job ability of the Summoner, and a Weaponskill of the avatar. What does this mean? Basically, certain status effects that prevent the use of JAs, like paralysis, can prevent a Summoner from executing a Bloodpact, but a paralyzed avatar will still execute a Bloodpact when successfully ordered by its Summoner. Moreover, Magical Bloodpacts will also be unaffected by silence. However, status effects that prevent the use of JAs and WS, like amnesia, will not allow the Summoner to command Bloodpacts and will not allow the avatar to execute them.

[Ganiman]

Don't go crying because the admins locked a page.

Yeah, let's just sit and twiddle our thumbs because we (the userbase) are posting real facts, and your moron admin is trying to post her "I saw it once apon a time but have no way to back myself up" as a dispute, when really nobody is agreeing with her (aside from the dude she yoinked to back her up).

Her locking a page of misinformation is stupid.

[quote:b56ac]Finally, if the information is wrong ... change it!!! For heaven's sake, we don't want incorrect information. That's why we made it a wiki, so that you could go in a fix it.

How do you change what's locked?

It's unlocked now, but the only reason this argument is here in the first place is because she locked the page up when she couldn't back herself up and the rest of us could.[/quote:b56ac]

Ahhh... it's so difficult to reply without insulting you...

But basically... yeah... twiddle your thumbs or.. dare I say.. be proactive. You look like a cry baby coming here and bitching about it.. even going as far as to put the link in your sig only further proves how childish you are. Your attitude is the real thorn in the side of FFXI, not a small bit of misinformation on some website.

Big deal. There was misinformation about something you aren't even going to look up. You know the effect of paralyze and how it works. So go play with yourself already.... If it takes a couple of days for me to squash this, is it really that big of a deal?

Be proactive about this stuff. Talk about it on our support forums, where something might actually get done about it. And if it pisses you off that much, then PM me directly or even email me about it. I'm usually quick to respond and clean up whatever mess is brought to my attention. This thread is quite amusing. It shows how little people know about running a website.

[Ganiman]

Jeryhn, nice post. You stated it well. I will be speaking with the admin in question. Actions were taken that shouldn't have been, and emotions got in the way.

Like I keep saying... I have no problem with these kinds of things being escalated directly to me.

[aurik]

Ahhh... it's so difficult to reply without insulting you...

But basically... yeah... twiddle your thumbs or.. dare I say.. be proactive.

It's funny you recommend being proactive, yet when I was proactive about helping you and your website quash inaccuracy, your admin flipped out, reverted the edits, locked the page, and started throwing insults. Which pretty much initiated this whole shitfest in the beginning.

As high and mighty as you act, you have some responsibility for this, as it was someone acting on your behalf with power you delegated to them who caused all the drama in the first place.

Edit: just saw the deop message, I'm satisfied with that.

[Mifaco]

I'M SORRY GUYS

[Mierin]

A third example is her refusal to concede on the AfD for the breads & rice category. Currently it's something like 4-2, but she refuses to accept the result and instead is leaving it open indefinitely, even though all the interested parties have posted their opinion and clearly her opinion is in the minority.

Actually, that's us admins being lazy. I only go in like once every two months and take care of AfDs. I admit it. I'm lazy.

[Lordwafik]

lol, my new sig ftw.

Grats to wiki admins for fixing that admin up.

[VZX]

Problem solved now? ¯\(º_o)/¯

[Miriamel]

While it wasn't the smartest way to go about the whole thing with locking the page, both sides are severely overreacting. There is no point in posting something as fact without proof, so the admin in question should've worked on getting proof before trying to insist on their opinion. On the other hand, there's no need to beat someone up over a mistake they made that has in the meantime been fixed.

As far as the donation cost goes... it'd be nice to have a list of wanted equipment including price, that'd satisfy everyone. I know that I always want to know exactly where my money is going when I donate anywhere.

[Sonomaa]

Ok, going to break down a few things here before I feel the need to defend my userbase that you technically insulted for making a post here.

If said admin in question, as you so stated was doing wrong, agreeing with one of my userbases posts, was going rogue and a person posted a question on said forum as to why all the bullshit was going on in the topic, honestly I wouldnt put it past said admin to wipe that thread and/or ban that user from making posts because she didnt want to be proved wrong.

Even we have had issues with admins and moderators overstepping their power, I noticed it or it was brought to my attention very quickly. Sometimes it can be stopped before it started sometimes not.

Even if you try to deny it, I know for a fact a serious amount of information, even sometimes information that needed tweaking came from these boards, I know for a fact Ive read pages of information on the wiki that had already been posted on this forum. So honestly Id like you to respect the userbase of the BG forums a little more. We didnt build the wiki, nor do we host it, but weve done a fuckload for getting donations and filling the topics with useful information. Were trying to respect you, so Id request a little professional courtesy in return. While this is technically a bahamut forum as far as servers go, information is posted here first, and then following that, cross posted on some other sites, or blatantly stolen by the other forums, but that information is posted from all servers and all walks of players.

And yes, I could go to the wiki and look for your contact information, but I didnt quite see anywhere that it said "let me talk to the biggest admin possible ". So I made a post here since I was quite sure at some point you were going to hit this forum, see the topic posted, and then assist us in making sure the wiki was corrected and the information locked in.

Regardless, Ive refreshed the thread and saw that certain things have been resolved, but I still want to make 100% sure that mutual respect is given and received in due process.

[Mierin]

Okay ... before I make the final edit to the Paralysis page and archive the debate ...

I do have one question.

For some reason, I remember Mob TP moves being able to get paralyzed. Since the talk page discussion focused heavily on PC WSs, I wasn't sure if the mob TP issue got addressed. Can someone answer that one question:

Can Mob TP get paralyzed?

[Ganiman]

Regardless, Ive refreshed the thread and saw that certain things have been resolved, but I still want to make 100% sure that mutual respect is given and received in due process.

Sonomaa, I agree completely that there should be some mutual respect between sites, but when your users attack us, we're only going to defend ourselves. And if your users make themselves look like fools in the process, I can't help that.

Check your PM and let's use email please Sonomaa..

[aurik]

Okay ... before I make the final edit to the Paralysis page and archive the debate ...

I do have one question.

For some reason, I remember Mob TP moves being able to get paralyzed. Since the talk page discussion focused heavily on PC WSs, I wasn't sure if the mob TP issue got addressed. Can someone answer that one question:

Can Mob TP get paralyzed?

Nope.

[Lordwafik]

Okay ... before I make the final edit to the Paralysis page and archive the debate ...

I do have one question.

For some reason, I remember Mob TP moves being able to get paralyzed. Since the talk page discussion focused heavily on PC WSs, I wasn't sure if the mob TP issue got addressed. Can someone answer that one question:

Can Mob TP get paralyzed?

As a lolbst who was a big bst advocate pre nerf, I can say no with 100% certainty. When fighting mobs like hecteyes, scorpions, goobues, all with heavy Para moves , when I use sic, my pet never got paralyzed.

Likewise the other way around, mobs never got para'd on WS when my pet para'd them .

[Jeryhn]

Can Mob TP get paralyzed?

Short answer: In a normal case, no it can't.

Abnormal cases would include specific BC or NM mobs that get intimidated constantly (Khimaira 13), get their abilities locked (Apocalyptic Beast) or other quirky mobs where this kind of thing is intentionally designed.

Most occurances where people think a mob's TP ability is being paralyzed like this appear in the chatlog are because one of the mob's regular attacks are being effected by paralyze just before attempting to execute a TP ability, and due to normal lag the entries appear in the wrong order. Oftentimes when mobs are fought they can do almost nothing but charge TP abilities because of the rate at which they're gaining TP by a party or alliance hitting them constantly, offering an explanation for why mobs will seemingly get paralyzed on a TP ability and just be ready to charge another attack.

Also, a mob's TP abilities should not be confused with magic spells, which can be stopped by the Paralyze effect.

[VZX]

Can Mob TP get paralyzed?

Short answer: In a normal case, no it can't.

Abnormal cases would include specific BC or NM mobs that get intimidated constantly (Khimaira 13), get their abilities locked (Apocalyptic Beast) or other quirky mobs where this kind of thing is intentionally designed.

But that won't fall under the category Paralyze as status effect, no ?

[Jeryhn]

Can Mob TP get paralyzed?

Short answer: In a normal case, no it can't.

Abnormal cases would include specific BC or NM mobs that get intimidated constantly (Khimaira 13), get their abilities locked (Apocalyptic Beast) or other quirky mobs where this kind of thing is intentionally designed.

But that won't fall under the category Paralyze as status effect, no ?

No it wouldn't, but I'm just offering additional explanations for why a person might think Paralyze is preventing these abilities when it actually isn't.

[divisortheory]

As further proof that the chat log is never reliable, here's a screenshot of a 33TP return Mercy Stroke:

http://www.infieldpress.com/parser/8...Red%20Mage.JPG



In short, it will happen from time to time that you will see something in your chat log that makes you think something or another is or isn't possible. In the end, you just have to rely on yours and other peoples' experience to know whether that really was the case.

[ringthree]

This thread did nothing positive and only made a bunch of people on each side look like big jerks.

ZOMG, a human being let emotion get in the way of logical thought! LETS START AN E-WAR.

Lock this thread and lets pretend it never happened.