Question about Jorm's spellcasting.

[MF Perm]

Jimmy is really an easy Wyrm. I dare say that on a good day, Aspid would probably have to be harder. Only thing making it 2-4 hours kill with less than 18 is his HP. Nonetheless, grats on the kill.

Ya he's really easy with 45 people, which I'm sure you have loads of experience fighting him with ^_~. Jorm is probably the hardest wyrm in itself as far as spells and the fact that all the mobs that pop around it aggro magic and have short repop timers.

Vrtra is only a pain in the ass because you need at least 12 BLMs for his summons, but he goes down in under an hour with a handful of summoners BPing every round.

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[Therin]

Jorm itself IS pretty easy, assuming you have a competent stunner who can reliable stun Blizzaga (i.e. Max ).

The hard part about the fight are the adds. When you have 12 people there, a DoT'd unslept Jorm, and four to six VT-IT adds on you, it's pretty extreme. <_<

[MF Perm]

Jorm itself IS pretty easy, assuming you have a competent stunner who can reliable stun Blizzaga (i.e. Max ).

The hard part about the fight are the adds. When you have 12 people there, a DoT'd unslept Jorm, and four to six VT-IT adds on you, it's pretty extreme. <_<

Considering he binds and paralyzes and adjusts his pos on every land, on top of blizzaga and wing I'd say he's the biggest pain in the ass of the 3. Blood weapon every 10 minuntes is cool too.

[Jeryhn]

I would say Jorm is the hardest of the wyrms, just because of the adds and the fact that there's no "keep it off" for Paralyze like there is for sleep (hiya Poison Potions). The only good thing about Jorm really is the fact that his flight time is shorter, and if you play smart, you can ensure that his doesn't do anything gay on the ground like Triple Roar.

But if you have any of the Wyrms just by themselves with no adds to deal with, none of them are particulary difficult.

[psnsonixx]

Please don't take your lack of understanding a mob for difficulty.. you do not have to readjust when he lands you just know how to fight him so he doesn't move when he lands.. Considering we kill jorm normally w/ 12 and have done it with 6, how can you say he is the hardest? He's one of the easiest mobs in the game imo.. go do vrtra with 6.. or 12.. 18 would be a challenge if you aren't kraken zerging it too. Stun Blizzaga III.. learn how to position it.. and jorm becomes a walk in the park.

[Jeryhn]

Please don't take your lack of understanding a mob for difficulty.. you do not have to readjust when he lands you just know how to fight him so he doesn't move when he lands.. Considering we kill jorm normally w/ 12 and have done it with 6, how can you say he is the hardest? He's one of the easiest mobs in the game imo.. go do vrtra with 6.. or 12.. 18 would be a challenge if you aren't kraken zerging it too. Stun Blizzaga III.. learn how to position it.. and jorm becomes a walk in the park.

Vrtra is only "hard" because it constantly summons undead. Don't confuse "necessary manpower" with "difficulty", because if you take the adds out of both monsters, Jorm is a far more difficult wyrm to deal with than Vrtra.

[Therin]

Please don't take your lack of understanding a mob for difficulty.. you do not have to readjust when he lands you just know how to fight him so he doesn't move when he lands.. Considering we kill jorm normally w/ 12 and have done it with 6, how can you say he is the hardest? He's one of the easiest mobs in the game imo.. go do vrtra with 6.. or 12.. 18 would be a challenge if you aren't kraken zerging it too. Stun Blizzaga III.. learn how to position it.. and jorm becomes a walk in the park.

Yeah, I noticed in the screenshots of your six-man, you guys pull it to a different place than we normally do. We got adds pretty fast when weather came up (we pull it against the wall in front of the little canyon-ish place that heads to Brothers ENM).

[Beckwin]

18 would be a challenge if you aren't kraken zerging it too

horn+shield on jorm what?

[Juvant]

The shield isn't even worth mentioning, the horn saved them. Shield did just about nothing a koenig shield wouldn't do considering they weren't blood tanking.

I really doubt Jorm could be killed with 6 without the horn though.

Still very impressive regardless, not to distract from their accomplishment.

[psnsonixx]

the summons are A PART of vrtra himself not really like normal adds.. take jorm alone vs vrtra alone and you think vrtra is easier?

You need to realize your definition of "required horsepower" Isn't ours..

Comparing Vrtra to Jorm is the silliest thing I have ever heard of..

And as far as horn+shield.. lol? Atleast a 6 man jorm requires skill.. While krakening vrtra down with x people is 'cool' and very neat to watch, it doesn't require skill.. I'm not saying it isn't cool.... but.. :shrug:.. I'm not on their nuts about it.

Edit: Yeah.. shield was 'nice' but horn did make it possible.. i'd like to see people who talk shit try it with horn + shield first and get an understanding for what was done.. and then I want to see 6 people do it w/o relic horn.. we won't bother trying.. frankly that 3+ hour battle was very tiring and we proved our point.. we have nothing more to prove on it.. but my hats off to another 6 who can do it w/o a horn and sleeps.. interested to see it.

[psnsonixx]

Please don't take your lack of understanding a mob for difficulty.. you do not have to readjust when he lands you just know how to fight him so he doesn't move when he lands.. Considering we kill jorm normally w/ 12 and have done it with 6, how can you say he is the hardest? He's one of the easiest mobs in the game imo.. go do vrtra with 6.. or 12.. 18 would be a challenge if you aren't kraken zerging it too. Stun Blizzaga III.. learn how to position it.. and jorm becomes a walk in the park.

Vrtra is only "hard" because it constantly summons undead. Don't confuse "necessary manpower" with "difficulty", because if you take the adds out of both monsters, Jorm is a far more difficult wyrm to deal with than Vrtra.

One more note.. assuming I be as kind as to ignore the fact vrtra smns.. he is still far more difficult then jorm because of the constant sleeping, and charm.. and the SOLE Fact that he doesn't fly.. flying is when the wyrm is the easiest.. I don't understand linkshells who have problems w/ the wyrms in the air.. it's the ground that makes them "challenging"... I use that word with caution.

[Therin]

The shield isn't even worth mentioning, the horn saved them. Shield did just about nothing a koenig shield wouldn't do considering they weren't blood tanking.

I really doubt Jorm could be killed with 6 without the horn though.

Still very impressive regardless, not to distract from their accomplishment.

It's still 25% aerial damage reduction. But yeah, for the most part, Horn > Shield.

[Juvant]

Well a non aegis pld who invested in an ice resist build would take less per hit than he did.

[Jeryhn]

the summons are A PART of vrtra himself not really like normal adds.. take jorm alone vs vrtra alone and you think vrtra is easier?

You need to realize your definition of "required horsepower" Isn't ours..

Comparing Vrtra to Jorm is the silliest thing I have ever heard of..

Consider for a second, the reason why Vrtra is kited as opposed to Jorm which is tanked straight up. The summons. When Vrtra summons, it spawns a mob directly on its own location, which causes it to shift position. And when wyrms on the ground move, very bad things happen.

If Vrtra were able to be tanked straight up, do you really think a combination of Sleepga, Blindga and Dispelga would outweigh the potential damage caused to a small-man group compared to Paralyga, Bindga and Blizzaga?

The only X-Factor in a small-man run would be Charm, which is based on HP loss, so Charms would be few and far between. All you would need is a co-tank and a smart Sleep.

Vrtra by himself pales in comparison to Jorm. The only thing is you're forced to deal with Vrtra's adds, whereas you're not necessarily forced to deal with adds at Tiamat or Jorm with any regularity.

flying is when the wyrm is the easiest.. I don't understand linkshells who have problems w/ the wyrms in the air.. it's the ground that makes them "challenging"... I use that word with caution.

I completely agree here. Each wyrm is far more dangerous on the ground than in the air (Mighty Strikes/Ninja Counters from Tiamat, Triple Roar on Jorm, Terrorga from Ouryu).

[psnsonixx]

lol we don't kite vrtra .. We straight tanked it the whole way.. again.. you need to figure out how to get around that problem.. we did.. I think if you kite vrtra you are killing it way too easy and there is no challenge in that.. I would never ever kite it.

Edit: That does explain why you think vrtra is easier then jorm.. i mean.. kiting it.. meh.. I guess it's like KB.. kiting kb its so easy.. but straight tanking it would probably make it really challenging.

[psnsonixx]

Man I replied too fast w/o really thinking of everything here..

I will say when we did Vrtra straight up the sleepga's were annoying, but managable since it didn't hit our blms.. but.. the wings were pretty annoying esp when it would go back to back.. consider our blms who do the smns are out of range, they get hit.. then other room agro can come in.. we didn't have 50 people there cleaning out the rooms .. all we had was a tank party, and a summoner pt on vrtra (12 people) and then 2 blm pts (5xblm + brd) on outside.. i think we had a 3rd party in the outside alliance because it was our first time and we had 'everyone' there.. was a pld and a rdm if I remember.. he was pulling room adds when they agro'd us.. but. considering it was like 23-24 real people playing 28 or so accounts... there wasn't alot of room for mistakes.. so yes, I do thing vrtra is alot harder then jorm any day of the week. I know we will be doing vrtra shortly with 24 accounts straight tanked, and it will be a fun challenge.. if we want a fun challenge on jorm, we gotta go with 6.

[MF Perm]

Man I replied too fast w/o really thinking of everything here..

I will say when we did Vrtra straight up the sleepga's were annoying, but managable since it didn't hit our blms.. but.. the wings were pretty annoying esp when it would go back to back.. consider our blms who do the smns are out of range, they get hit.. then other room agro can come in.. we didn't have 50 people there cleaning out the rooms .. all we had was a tank party, and a summoner pt on vrtra (12 people) and then 2 blm pts (5xblm + brd) on outside.. i think we had a 3rd party in the outside alliance because it was our first time and we had 'everyone' there.. was a pld and a rdm if I remember.. he was pulling room adds when they agro'd us.. but. considering it was like 23-24 real people playing 28 or so accounts... there wasn't alot of room for mistakes.. so yes, I do thing vrtra is alot harder then jorm any day of the week. I know we will be doing vrtra shortly with 24 accounts straight tanked, and it will be a fun challenge.. if we want a fun challenge on jorm, we gotta go with 6.

Ya sounds like the challenge of running through a busy highway with lead boots on.

The reason you kite Vrtra is because he doesn't use his wing AoE when he's moving. Sure you can fight it straight up but that almost always spells disaster unless you have 60 people backing you up.

Vrtra also has the lowest defense of the wyrms. 3 rounds of BP's can take him down 15 - 25%. That's 3 to 5 minutes. Vrtra also has slower / next to no regen. Jorm regens everytime she goes airborne.

Sure you can pull Jorm to the right spot so it lands correctly each time, but with 18 the chance of someone pulling hate in the air and turning it before it lands / as it casts bindga is good enough to make it more challenging.

The fact that the adds on Jorm can instawipe an alliance > the adds and summons at Vrtra.

Personally to me by your walls of text and blanket remarks you sound like someone who just happened to be invited to a Jorm or two and think you're hot shit, but the fact of the matter is that individually without adds Jorm is more difficult than Vrtra by ability and stats. Vrtra is just situationally more complicated than Jorm because of his summoning.

[psnsonixx]

eh... like I said we did it fine w/ 24-28... and your plds actually lose hate? hmph ok.

[MF Perm]

eh... like I said we did it fine w/ 24-28... and your plds actually lose hate? hmph ok.

Yeah, back in the days before PLD could get 8/tick refresh going you could lose hate after eating lasers and not having mp to C4 yourself.

[psnsonixx]

wait what? You telling me I was invited to one or two jorms? LOL.. ignorance is bliss.. 35 jorms and 48 tiamats later, I think I know how to handle wyrms without being a pussy and kiting them and using 60 people.. do some research before you talk shit and say this can't be done or that can't be done.