Besieged Adjustments 2/20/07

[Murataki]

Soulflayers - They probably share a hatred with the Empire (haven't done BLU AF quests, so correct me if I'm wrong), and since it seems there are a small amount of them (well since the Salvage update, there are plenty of more), they would probably like to join a big army like the Lamiae's. They could also probably raise the dead, too.

The Soulflayers are just fucking nutters. I'm fairly certain that they lack sentience, since the form is the result of a weak-minded BLU losing his mind.

On that note, Soulflayers wouldn't be all that fun in Besieged. Unless your idea of fun is AoE Blind + Bio IV, AoE Curse, and AoE Dispel (including food!).

[Septimus]

Soulflayers - They probably share a hatred with the Empire (haven't done BLU AF quests, so correct me if I'm wrong), and since it seems there are a small amount of them (well since the Salvage update, there are plenty of more), they would probably like to join a big army like the Lamiae's. They could also probably raise the dead, too.

The Soulflayers are just fucking nutters. I'm fairly certain that they lack sentience, since the form is the result of a weak-minded BLU losing his mind.

On that note, Soulflayers wouldn't be all that fun in Besieged. Unless your idea of fun is AoE Blind + Bio IV, AoE Curse, and AoE Dispel (including food!).

And somewhere, the CoP team smiles...

[Khamsin]

If it didn't follow the story then we'd have O RLY owls in the Zhayolm Remnants, Mooninites in Bhaflau, Vivi as Arrapago's last boss, and imps that use torpedo launchers and devilets that use AK-47s.

How do you know he isn't?!!

I'm going to change Armored Chariot's name to Vivi's Chariot in the .dats.

[Murataki]

And somewhere, the CoP team smiles...

I'm pretty sure if the CoP team had creative control of Besieged, all fucking hell would break loose. You'd have Trolls riding in on the back of Tiamat, Mamools straddling Jormy, and Medusa with Vrtra on a leash.

Everyone in the zone would be hit with every possible Pathos, and you would have to kill the NMs to get your shit back.

And to throw the proverbial salt on your wounds, everyone would be level capped to 50.

[dedalius]

Soulflayers - They probably share a hatred with the Empire (haven't done BLU AF quests, so correct me if I'm wrong), and since it seems there are a small amount of them (well since the Salvage update, there are plenty of more), they would probably like to join a big army like the Lamiae's. They could also probably raise the dead, too.

The Soulflayers are just fucking nutters. I'm fairly certain that they lack sentience, since the form is the result of a weak-minded BLU losing his mind.

On that note, Soulflayers wouldn't be all that fun in Besieged. Unless your idea of fun is AoE Blind + Bio IV, AoE Curse, and AoE Dispel (including food!).

And somewhere, the CoP team smiles...

Every time a Soulflayer AOEs, a CoP Team Member gets his wings.

[Murataki]

Soulflayers - They probably share a hatred with the Empire (haven't done BLU AF quests, so correct me if I'm wrong), and since it seems there are a small amount of them (well since the Salvage update, there are plenty of more), they would probably like to join a big army like the Lamiae's. They could also probably raise the dead, too.

The Soulflayers are just fucking nutters. I'm fairly certain that they lack sentience, since the form is the result of a weak-minded BLU losing his mind.

On that note, Soulflayers wouldn't be all that fun in Besieged. Unless your idea of fun is AoE Blind + Bio IV, AoE Curse, and AoE Dispel (including food!).

And somewhere, the CoP team smiles...

Every time a Soulflayer AOEs, a CoP Team Member gets his wings.

And every time someone dies in a CoP level capped area, a CoP team member gets a managerial position in Hell.

[Khamsin]

I know salvage has some plot basis with the AC's, but I think it's mostly more of a non-sensical zone like limbus.

I always figured the reason you see random mobs in Apollyon was because the emptiness devoured them, so they're just kinda trapped there, helpless, while you ravage them. Temenos, on the other hand, is being invaded by various beastmen while you attempt to clean them out and liberate the zone.

[Murataki]

I know salvage has some plot basis with the AC's, but I think it's mostly more of a non-sensical zone like limbus.

I always figured the reason you see random mobs in Apollyon was because the emptiness devoured them, so they're just kinda trapped there, helpless, while you ravage them. Temenos, on the other hand, is being invaded by various beastmen while you attempt to clean them out and liberate the zone.

Considering that Apollyon is a reference to a place of destruction, while Temenos is the sacred grounds of a temple...that doesn't seem too far off.

Only question is...how did Beastmen unlock sea? Gogogo Orc Manaburn?

[Sagacious Sundi]

1) Salvage follows the rules of the storyline, too. Hence why people used the areas' plinths to determine story stuff. If it didn't follow the story then we'd have O RLY owls in the Zhayolm Remnants, Mooninites in Bhaflau, Vivi as Arrapago's last boss, and imps that use torpedo launchers and devilets that use AK-47s.

I know salvage has some plot basis with the AC's, but I think it's mostly more of a non-sensical zone like limbus. You are probably right about the fallens, I didn't pay much attention to them and just assumed they were all like the Ephramadian ones.

Qiqirn could sell out sure, but why with the undead swarm? If anything it would make more sense to have them capable of changing sides during any besieged, similar to how the goblins occasionally can. And even if you argued the stuff in salvage being canon, the ones in arrapago remnants are probably just there on there own accord, hence why they are named "qiqirn treasure hunter" and the like.

And do corses or efts have any relation to any plot at all? An eft showing up with the mamools makes just as much sense as raptors/bugards/etc to me.

Well, I already said a mission orders says this:

Qiqirn - These mission orders say it all: "The Lamiae have hired Qiqirn demolition experts to set land mines in Periqia. You must eliminate this hazard for the soldiers."

As for efts/corses, efts won't mess up anything. They can add efts in every area including cities, I don't care. But I would think if they wanted to add old monsters as regulars, they would have done it by now (excluding of rampart reinforcements, those are monsters from around the world or something). Corses, while not important to the plot, could cause some disruption since this is what their description says "Corses are the remains of an ancient royal line that was buried in the graveyards of Parradamo." although, like I said with the whole Sacriarium thing, maybe they could have migrated to the Near East to spread their bloodline.

The Soulflayers are just fucking nutters. I'm fairly certain that they lack sentience, since the form is the result of a weak-minded BLU losing his mind.

Cool, didn't know that. If flan are BLUs too, how did they become all flanny?

And somewhere, the CoP team smiles...

I was always under the impression that the majority of the undead in the Undead Swarm are the remnants of the CoP team that thought Limbus and "The Wyrmking Descends" were awful ideas. Their last words were "Cap adventuring fellows... at 65..."

I always figured the reason you see random mobs in Apollyon was because the emptiness devoured them, so they're just kinda trapped there, helpless, while you ravage them. Temenos, on the other hand, is being invaded by various beastmen while you attempt to clean them out and liberate the zone.

I, too figured Apollyon devoured creatures (that Orc and that weapons are from our world and Lumoria) and was Al'Taieu's Promy and the central/lower promy since it lost its light/the Keeper of Apocalypse is there. And Temenos is the Oufjkgnjfkgnjf Obelisk that was concured by the Emptiness. Thus, Limbus is where everything devoured by the Emptiness goes.

[Murataki]

Cool, didn't know that. If flan are BLUs too, how did they become all flanny?

BLUs are chimeras formed by being infused with the essences of countless monsters. My guess is that Soulflayers are the "higher tier" evolution of the BLU, possessing all sorts of psychokinetic powers and the ability to retain magic. As for Flans, they're probably what happens to a BLU who absorbs too many monsters: he goes insane and devolves to a blob of goo.

I, too figured Apollyon devoured creatures (that Orc and that weapons are from our world and Lumoria) and was Al'Taieu's Promy and the central/lower promy since it lost its light/the Keeper of Apocalypse is there. And Temenos is the Oufjkgnjfkgnjf Obelisk that was concured by the Emptiness. Thus, Limbus is where everything devoured by the Emptiness goes.

Ou'Hpat Obelisk is where the Emptiness-destroying Chamber of Eventide is, which is why it's so fucking shiny. No idea why it's full of displaced beastmen though.

And for that matter, I'm not sure why enhanced "prototype" forms of Zilartian biotechnological weapons are hanging around there either, since Nag'molada talks like they're brand new during 6-4.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Cool, didn't know that. If flan are BLUs too, how did they become all flanny?

BLUs are chimeras formed by being infused with the essences of countless monsters. My guess is that Soulflayers are the "higher tier" evolution of the BLU, possessing all sorts of psychokinetic powers and the ability to retain magic. As for Flans, they're probably what happens to a BLU who absorbs too many monsters: he goes insane and devolves to a blob of goo.

So I guess soulflayers were BLUs that went crazy and became more like a monster mentally, hence why they are more humanoid and have the decency to wear clothes and flan are BLU who overloaded and became more like a monster physically.

[quote:0eff2]I, too figured Apollyon devoured creatures (that Orc and that weapons are from our world and Lumoria) and was Al'Taieu's Promy and the central/lower promy since it lost its light/the Keeper of Apocalypse is there. And Temenos is the Oufjkgnjfkgnjf Obelisk that was concured by the Emptiness. Thus, Limbus is where everything devoured by the Emptiness goes.

Ou'Hpat Obelisk is where the Emptiness-destroying Chamber of Eventide is, which is why it's so fucking shiny. No idea why it's full of displaced beastmen though.

And for that matter, I'm not sure why enhanced "prototype" forms of Zilartian biotechnological weapons are hanging around there either, since Nag'molada talks like they're brand new during 6-4.[/quote:0eff2]Hmm, if the Emptiness tried to eat Ou'Hpat then it would probably become something special like Temenos (if it is the emptiness-eliminator thingy).

Regarding bio-weapons, I thought thhe 6-4 weapons were modeled after the original prototypes. If not, well, villains aren't known for their intelligence, even if they are evil geniuses, mad scientists, become gods, gain all knowledge and power in the universe, or something.

[Murataki]

Well, the original Omega and Ultima were constructed by the Zilart living in Al'Taieu a long ass time ago, I'm guessing. Not quite sure how Nag'molada got ahold of the schematics to build copies, but that's probably just a plot hole.

The originals, I assume were meant as defense systems for the place. However, I always thought it was odd that they're in Limbus zones. They ought to be patrolling Ru'Hmet, since both the fifth Mothercrystal and the Ou'Hpat Obelisk are connected to it.

Note: This does not mean that I'd prefer to see them wandering around in Ru'Hmet, it means it'd make more sense.

[Kattice]

It was the Kuluu, not the Zilart. The Kuluu constructed them to fight the Zilart. That's why he got them.

Also all of the Emptiness was created in the explosion that destroyed Tavnazia before the game began. For Limbus you are part of the emptiness in Apollyon, the emptiness in the city, fighting what the Kuluu did.

Temenos you have the beastmen invading the holy place, but it seems both were meant to house the Ultimate Weapon and Ultimate Shield. The manifestations of the inhabitants are in Sea, but you have to toss in the idea that its imaginary.

If you remember Diorama is imaginary in nature, you do not kill each other. Diorama is fake world created for the purpose of fighting in FFXI.

[Jeryhn]

Ou'Hpat Obelisk is where the Emptiness-destroying Chamber of Eventide is, which is why it's so fucking shiny. No idea why it's full of displaced beastmen though.

The Chamber of Eventide is in the Grand Palace of Hu'Xzoi. You know the small dark room where you and Nag'molada found Yve'noile and met the new Phoenix? That's it.

The Ou'Hpat Obelisk are the burial grounds of the Zilart. Nag'molada says he must not let Yve'noile return to the mothercrystal from inside the Chamber of Eventide. Its now known as Temenos.

And of course, Apollyon was once known as Lower Promyvion, the emptiness that surrounds the final mothercrystal.

And for that matter, I'm not sure why enhanced "prototype" forms of Zilartian biotechnological weapons are hanging around there either, since Nag'molada talks like they're brand new during 6-4.

In that cutscene, Nag'molada says that his creation is a prototype based off of Zilart design. He also says the original design can be found in Al'Taieu.

[Kattice]

Ou'Hpat Obelisk is where the Emptiness-destroying Chamber of Eventide is, which is why it's so fucking shiny. No idea why it's full of displaced beastmen though.

The Chamber of Eventide is in the Grand Palace of Hu'Xzoi. You know the small dark room where you and Nag'molada found Yve'noile and met the new Phoenix? That's it.

The Ou'Hpat Obelisk are the burial grounds of the Zilart. Nag'molada says he must not let Yve'noile return to the mothercrystal from inside the Chamber of Eventide. Its now known as Temenos.

And of course, Apollyon was once known as Lower Promyvion, the emptiness that surrounds the final mothercrystal.

And for that matter, I'm not sure why enhanced "prototype" forms of Zilartian biotechnological weapons are hanging around there either, since Nag'molada talks like they're brand new during 6-4.

In that cutscene, Nag'molada says that his creation is a prototype based off of Zilart design. He also says the original design can be found in Al'Taieu.

You sure its the Zilart? The Kuluu were at war with the Zilart, but did they steal it or something? If the original is in Al'Taieu shouldn't it be a Kuluu weapon and not a Zilart weapon, which would be Ro'Maeve or Ru'Aun.

Though come to think of it, a lot of similarities exist been Zilart and Kuluu. Their naming systems for one. The link between Kuluu and Zilart was only a mental one, but they were bitter enemies.

[Jeryhn]

You sure its the Zilart? The Kuluu were at war with the Zilart, but did they steal it or something? If the original is in Al'Taieu shouldn't it be a Kuluu weapon and not a Zilart weapon, which would be Ro'Maeve or Ru'Aun.

The Omega and Ultima line of weapons were designed by the Zilart. You seem to be forgetting, Nag'molada is a Kuluu, but he's desperately trying to get to Al'Taieu to use the Chamber of Eventide to become Zilart again. The Chamber of Eventide doesn't eradicate Emptiness, it displaces it from your soul and stores it within the Chamber.

Zilart and Kuluu are the same race, the difference between them is that Zilart are "pure", while the Kuluu are Zilart born mortal with Emptiness in their souls. This Emptiness prevents the use of the Whisper of the Soul, what the Zilart call their telepathy. However, that telepathy is a two-way radio, it only works when both people can make use of it. The Zilart began to fear the Kuluu because they could not read their minds, so Pso'Xja and the Horutoto Ruins were built as containment camps by the Zilart for the Kuluu.

The Kuluu, when they fought against the Zilart to prevent them from using the Tu'Lia weapon, fought using pacts they made with the Terrestrial Avatars, who also had a vested interest in seeing that Tu'Lia was never used. My theory is that the Terrestrial Avatars relate to the Celestials in the same way the Zilart relate to the Kuluu - same "race", but one is immortal and afflicted by Emptiness, and the other is not.

Though come to think of it, a lot of similarities exist been Zilart and Kuluu. Their naming systems for one. The link between Kuluu and Zilart was only a mental one, but they were bitter enemies.

See above. The Kuluu are Zilart born mortal and without telepathy. Esha'ntarl was born as a Kuluu, and she was sister to the two Zilartian Princes, Eald'narche and Kam'lanaut. The Chamber of Eventide was built for the express purpose of removing the Emptiness from her soul because she was Zilartian royalty... the Zilart built the Tu'Lia weapon on the same premise the Chamber used, which would lead to the eradication of the Kuluu. This is why the Kuluu and Zilart are "enemies".

[Kattice]

If it is Zilart technology, that still doesn't answer why it was in the Kuluu paradise of Al'Taieu. Unless the city was Zilart built and then Kuluu overran them it should be primarily Kuluu maintained. The level of technology in Al'Taieu is clearly weaker then that of Ru'Aun, but this technology difference can only be a hundred years or so.


Groundskeepers, Detectors, Teleporters, Flying City.
Vs.
Spirits and Locked Doors and teleporters.


Al'Taieu was constructed for the Chamber of Eventide only, but its technology and power is far more important at freeing the Kuluu and returning them to the Zilart then was really noted. Sky was for Zilart only.

Here's a list of the ruins I can remember

Ro'Maeuve
Temple of Ugg{TAB!}
Pso'Xja
Ru'Aun
Al'Taieu
Fei'yin
Tower of Delkfutt
The 3 Crags
Horototo Ruins
Then ToA has Olduum, but it is not related.

Least its not as complex as the ToA storyline so far.

[fantasticdan]

Temenos you have the beastmen invading the holy place

Yes, and the tiger, mandragora, beetle, and pugil armies have invaded as well! 8)

[Khamsin]

The Kuluu, when they fought against the Zilart to prevent them from using the Tu'Lia weapon, fought using pacts they made with the Terrestrial Avatars, who also had a vested interest in seeing that Tu'Lia was never used. My theory is that the Terrestrial Avatars relate to the Celestials in the same way the Zilart relate to the Kuluu - same "race", but one is immortal and afflicted by Emptiness, and the other is not.

I seem to recall a CS stating the terrestrial avatars are mere beasts-- or, at least, would be if Vana'diel returned to paradise. I don't recall anything about the terrestrial avatars being afflicted with Emptiness. They also don't seem to be mortal, either. However, as I recall, their power seems to be derived from the fact that the crystals are separated and that Vana'diel is not paradise. Whereas the celestial avatars would remain gods even if Vana'diel were returned to paradise (and might rather prefer it that way, too, if they were awake).

[Seyrr]

Al'Taieu was the royal city of the Zilart, not of the Kuluu; this is mentioned in multiple cutscenes. I believe it was originally located at Qufim, and its removal from Vana'diel is the reason that Qufim is now a pretty crescent shape (see Empyreal Paradox, where the view of Vana'diel below is centered on Qufim.)

Also note that in the zones around Jeuno (specifically Batallia and Sauromugue), the sections of Shu'Meyo coastline are steep cliffs, and the nearby trees are covered with black shards reminiscent of solidified Emptiness.