Heated Endgame Discussion

[divisortheory]

A RDM/NIN with a BRD in the party (and possibly a COR just for shits and giggles) can generate absolutely ridiculous amounts of sustained hate.

How would that generate ridiculous hate for the RDM/NIN?? Like i said, only way i see a RDM/NIN holding hate from anything, would be SMNs.

By keeping their MP full, so they can spam things like Sleep II, Dispel, Sleep, Slow. All these spells generate a lot of hate. From your sig I assume you have RDM levelled. So try it sometime, you might be surprised.

[Ninjiz]

How would that generate ridiculous hate for the RDM/NIN?? Like i said, only way i see a RDM/NIN holding hate from anything, would be SMNs.

By keeping their MP full, so they can spam things like Sleep II, Dispel, Sleep, Slow. All these spells generate a lot of hate. From your sig I assume you have RDM levelled. So try it sometime, you might be surprised.[/quote]

I should give it a try sometime though when i have tanked things on rdm/nin before (non hnm) mp does become an issue if i have to spam spells even with a brd. But imo rdm would still have difficulty holding hate from anything not a SMN, but i assume any tiamet fight would have thrown a smn army at it? Or else more ppl would use RDM/Nins to tank other stuff more often? Then again Brds can tank things too, and generate massive hate, but they aret used that much either heh.

but its still straying from the original poinnt that gy made, Merits arent the reason a rdm could tank. Merits dont make the game "LOL". Esecially if there was real progression. but like someone else said, merits were simply a "Bandaid" fix to end game.

[Norrissnake]

A RDM/NIN with a BRD in the party (and possibly a COR just for shits and giggles) can generate absolutely ridiculous amounts of sustained hate.

How would that generate ridiculous hate for the RDM/NIN?? Like i said, only way i see a RDM/NIN holding hate from anything, would be SMNs.

and i rase you a wopadobop

[Ninjiz]

By keeping their MP full, so they can spam things like Sleep II, Dispel, Sleep, Slow. All these spells generate a lot of hate. From your sig I assume you have RDM levelled. So try it sometime, you might be surprised.

I should give it a try sometime though when i have tanked things on rdm/nin before (non hnm) mp does become an issue if i have to spam spells even with a brd. But imo rdm would still have difficulty holding hate from anything not a SMN, but i assume any tiamet fight would have thrown a smn army at it? Or else more ppl would use RDM/Nins to tank other stuff more often? Then again Brds can tank things too, and generate massive hate, but they aret used that much either heh.

but its still straying from the original poinnt that gy made, Merits arent the reason a rdm could tank. Merits dont make the game "LOL". Esecially if there was real progression. but like someone else said, merits were simply a "Bandaid" fix to end game.

[Jeryhn]

Your sig is ugly, too large and needs to die.

Also: RDM/NIN can tank just fine.

[Matricide]

Everything in FFXI relies alot on luck. Are you talking about armors or cells? Cells in every zone except arra are dependable if you know what to do getting what you need unlocked really fast. And as for armor relying on luck well.. what fking game are you playing where you dont need a lot of luck. Almost every HNM/end game activity depends on luck, there's not alot of 100% drops that are very good.

That's not what i mean. I'm comparing salvage to dynamis and limbus strategy. How many people here complain about certain cells dropping or not dropping? People complain about having nothing to do in salvage for a half hour because of the way it was designed. On a personal note I've experienced bad cell drop rate which effectively cut the run in half. This isn't an issue about loot.

Whenever I hear someone say that Salvage is artificial difficulty, it makes me think that person has either never been to Salvage before, or went once or twice the first day it was ever released. Which category are you in?

I went in after some initial strategies and things were worked out, maybe a month after it came out? Did they change it since it was released?

This is pretty loltastic. While the 2000 AP cost may hurt someone trying to obtain the armor (which has been out long enough for to obtain 3 full sets by now if they wanted to), anyone who says that the 20 minutes it takes to farm 2000 AP is too taxing is just plain lazy.

I don't like assault. I think it's lame being forced to do assault on a regular basis (something that requires other players) to pay for something else. I just plain don't like having all my abilities stripped from me, which is the same reason i don't like level-capped content. That's my opinion, you don't have to agree.

[Thranduil]

10/22/05 - iGames Tour at College Station Texas Panel Discussion: http://www.square-enix-usa.com/events/f ... cript.html


A linkshell mate of mine was going to college in texas and attended this discussion, he asked how many programmers still worked on FFXI and was answered with 6.

I bet that was when they had 1/2 the people working on porting FFXI to the 360. At this point, they are probably down to 3.

[Erza]

How cun pld/nin make hates without Provoke!?

[divisortheory]

No, they didn't change it since it was released. But for an experienced group the gear and ability locks are hardly an obstacle worth mentioning, except perhaps in Arrapago Remnants.

[Xavier]

You camp Nidhogg to get his drops, just to keep camping Nidhogg to kill him with his drops, because hes the only NM whos drops really matter. There needs to be something more.

Salvage, Assault, and Khimaira all drop things better than Nidhogg.

I never complained about Assault, and I said Salvage had good gear, but the restrictions on it felt more like a CoP dynamis than dynamis addition. Great but at a price. I would never call Hauterclaire better than Dalmatica or Adaman Hauberk, are you? Defending Ring is quite different because its not just physical but magical damage as well, and shadows, as you may or may not know, tend not to absorb AoE magic.

People want the sword because theres very little left in the game to actually want. In the absence of real progress you'll have to make do with subpar.

Are you honestly saying that 12 atk, 12 evasion and enhanced zanshin is better than 15 atk, 15 acc, 10 str, 10 dex? I don't really see how the argument can be made.

edit: i'll add limbus to the list of things that drop better stuff than nidhogg also.

Limbus is by far the most comparable thing. But I have no problem with limbus, have said that its done really well, and is one of the best additions the game has seen in quite a while. Its the best example of actual progression the game has had.

And, quite honestly, Salvage is in a completely different league than end-game HNMs. Salvage is something that can be done with just over a party of friends, Tiamat, Jorm, Khim, etc, are generally going to take more people and time.

Whenever I hear someone say that Salvage is artificial difficulty, it makes me think that person has either never been to Salvage before, or went once or twice the first day it was ever released. Which category are you in?

Artificial difficulty is imposing restrictions on an alliance that extend beyond simply the mobs being difficult. CoP Dynamis has artificial difficulty because it imposes a subjob restriction at the start. Salvage imposes a complete no-gear until its unlocked penalty. Artificial difficulty is something that companies have to do when their game is far too easy.

An example of straight difficult is AV, although most people would agree hes a bit too difficult and probably broken.

[Ninjiz]

and i rase you a wopadobop

Thats pretty nice.

Though again it does kinda prove my theory that certain jobs cant be in the mix if Rdms are to tank efficiently. I never disputed rdm not taking dmg, i had only doubted RDMs ability to "hold" hate from Non smns for extended perioids of time, but i can throw Blms into that as well. And sure, it does help when there are muliple Rdm/nins to bounce hate back and forth with. And in both the pics of Jorm and Faf i dont see any melee pounding on the Wyrms... so my point remains, since i dont think the BLMs would Spam nukes back to back to back.

Your sig is ugly, too large and needs to die.

Luckily im not here to impress "you", and honestly dont care that you think my sig is ugly, afterall i only spent 1 min throwing it together from jpgs of my character in photoshop. And size wise, regarding "height" its no taller then a LOT of sigs around here, though it it wide. But again, who asked you?

[Norrissnake]

I believe in 100% solid tanking strategy.
To prove this, we brought 100% full BLM alliance for DD with 0 SMN's to kill wyrms for an experiment.

That's right, nuke wyrms to hell to test how much hate can RDM/NIN hold when BLM's chain nuke till it's dead. From 100% > 0%, not a single draw in.

Can you prove the same, by NOT using Sleep/SleepII that you can hold hate with an army of BLM's nuking? That's the question I would like to know.

p/s We did numerous testings against other tanks eg NIN/DRK alongside RDM/NIN on Cerb, wyrms etc... even PLD/NIN + RDM/NIN duo tank Bahamut V2.
Only NIN/BRD can spike hate and achieve hate cap faster than RDM/NIN. Even then, they need to have the whole party to be hit by Mazurka which is not suitable for every fight. Fight like Bahamut, Cerb, etc... mages stand far.


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http://www.xanga.com/wopadobop
368 merits, 99.5+6 cloth

Ill stop derailing now. need more answers from SE now DAMNIT

[Ninjiz]

Ill stop derailing now. need more answers from SE now DAMNIT

If you can hold hate from 1 blm, you can hold hate frim 1,000 blms. Blms dont share hate pools and unlike melee, Blms quickly run out of "dmg" and must rest.

[Jeryhn]

Though again it does kinda prove my theory that certain jobs cant be in the mix if Rdms are to tank efficiently. I never disputed rdm not taking dmg, i had only doubted RDMs ability to "hold" hate from Non smns for extended perioids of time, but i can throw Blms into that as well.

Guessing you didn't actually read the Xanga.
Here's a more specific link:
http://www.xanga.com/Wopadobop/55961855 ... -year.html

Your sig is ugly, too large and needs to die.

Luckily im not here to impress "you", and honestly dont care that you think my sig is ugly, afterall i only spent 1 min throwing it together from jpgs of my character in photoshop. And size wise, regarding "height" its no taller then a LOT of sigs around here, though it it wide. But again, who asked you?

I suppose you're trying to impress us with your erroneous use of quotation marks then. Also, I commented on your ugly, ugly sig because I can. It's fucking ugly. The ugly is compunded by the fact that its retardedly large.

You quite obviously haven't been here long.

[Siatdiat]

You havent really been here long either, you just post alot and most of it is just like this post, cutting people down for no real reason.

[Ninjiz]

Guessing you didn't actually read the Xanga.
Here's a more specific link:
http://www.xanga.com/Wopadobop/55961855 ... -year.html

Oh sure i did... but again... holding hate from 1 blm is all that matters.. and since blms NOT magic bursting don't dish out Maximum dmg, and get resisted, A rdm spamming magic can hold hate just fine from said blm.

I suppose you're trying to impress us with your erroneous use of quotation marks then. Also, I commented on your ugly, ugly sig because I can. It's fucking ugly. The ugly is compunded by the fact that its retardedly large.
You quite obviously haven't been here long.

First of all im not trying to impress a damn person. You truly are pretty pathetic. Talk about being an ass and adding nothing to the conversation. I couldnt care less once again, my point about the height still stands, I dont give a shit you or anyone else find it ugly... i spent minimal time on it. You dont like it? Tough!!

And smart ass, i joined this forum just 5 months after you. Just because your ass chooses to post more then I do, doesnt mean i havnt been here. When you have something worth saying then you can come back and address me, until then im done with your bitch ass. So hate my sig until you die, im glad it annoys an asshole like you.

[divisortheory]

Let me put it this way. RDM/NIN can easily hold hate off of Invincible.

[Lordwafik]

Oh sure i did... but again... holding hate from 1 blm is all that matters.. and since blms NOT magic bursting don't dish out Maximum dmg, and get resisted, A rdm spamming magic can hold hate just fine from said blm.

RDM/NIN can hold hate from anything and anyone. Invincible was rendered useless on my test on colibris, then when I did it on Jailer of Hope, I pulled hate off my entire allience of blms and rngs, and a nin/drk and a pld/nin.

You reach a point of nirvana so to speak, so long as you don't take any dmg, the monster doesn't care about anyone but you.

[Intense]

His sig is still ugly and unnecessary regardless of someones join date. 8)

[Jeryhn]

Oh sure i did... but again... holding hate from 1 blm is all that matters.. and since blms NOT magic bursting don't dish out Maximum dmg, and get resisted, A rdm spamming magic can hold hate just fine from said blm.

If a NIN/DRK can't pull hate off of two RDM/NIN cotanks, what on earth makes you think a BLM is going to be able to without spamming Stun at every opportunity?

And smart ass, i joined this forum just 5 months after you. Just because your ass chooses to post more then I do, doesnt mean i havnt been here. When you have something worth saying then you can come back and address me, until then im done with your bitch ass. So hate my sig until you die, im glad it annoys an asshole like you.

I didn't say it annoyed me. Well, it does, but I can Adblock it, so why make a deal out of it? Well, the reason why I did is because its hard to take you seriously when you say "RDM can't tank!" and have a sig equally retarded as that statement.