Heated Endgame Discussion

[Ryko]

I never made the argument that salvage wasn't easily accessible. I 3 man my assault points every 4 days and have more than enough points to spend weeks in there just fucking around. Sadly "fucking around" gets you nowhere in XI. And I don't know about you but I personally dont enjoy feeling like a douchebag for taking 18+ people's money and time to do something I know won't succeed. Before you make the argument of "well then why do you do kings?" keep in mind that as it stands, for our efforts at kings we have over 35 nidhogg abjurations to show for it so it's not like we step out of there emptyhanded.

whole post

Basically he's saying 3 expansions in doing this shouldn't be just because you feel like it, knowing that even if you win you'll have nothing to show for it.

[Ninjiz]

Why shoudnt shouldnt old gear i got 2 years ago be obsolete now???

Lets say there was 6 existing tiers....

tier 1 > tier 2 > tier 3 > tier 4 > tier 5 > tier 6.

Then why would it be unreasonable that a tier 5 content is possible without getting the gear/loot from some of the first few tiers?? I wouldnt care if there was some dragon out that that could only be killed if you had the BEST possible gear Ridil Wars, Kraken Drks, Burst 2 Blms, - Perp gear smns with Ying yang robes, thats called progression. New and better loot to fight new and better things.

Why then shouldnt tier 5 people have no real need for tier 3 gear? Then maybe 300+ people wouldnt be there fighting over the same thing, at teh very same time. I keep hearing about the fear yyour gear you got last year would be useless... but again, IF it became useless and something better was out there to get the next year WHY is that a BAD THING?? Why do you want to hold onto this gear from last year so bad? Is it to stroke Epeen? Through everyones journey top 75 there was gear that was obsolete on your jounrey when you reach the next lvl. Why should 75 be any different?

Lets say AV was tier 6 content. Lets pretend though that AV isnt broken. Lets pretend that in order to kill AV your jobs need the BEST possible tier 5 content gear, and max merits to be effective. How is this bad? It gives the shells who took the time to get to tier 5 something new to do, and tier 3 shells something to aim for.

[Kuya]

I dont get it, i though they already added gear progression with salvage, or did i miss the thread announcing how shitty the gear is?

[Ninjiz]

i think they are more discussing the 3 old kings from ziliart.

[aurik]

I never made the argument that salvage wasn't easily accessible. I 3 man my assault points every 4 days and have more than enough points to spend weeks in there just fucking around. Sadly "fucking around" gets you nowhere in XI. And I don't know about you but I personally dont enjoy feeling like a douchebag for taking 18+ people's money and time to do something I know won't succeed. Before you make the argument of "well then why do you do kings?" keep in mind that as it stands, for our efforts at kings we have over 35 nidhogg abjurations to show for it so it's not like we step out of there emptyhanded.

You know that your LS is lucky with respect for aery. You yourself have said that you had essentially months uncontested in there. Even despite this extremely fortuitous situation with it, if you quantified the number of man-hours spent per nidhogg abj, you'd probably justify months upon months of "fucking around" with 6-10 people in salvage once or twice a week.

And you know just as well as I do: "fucking around" in a zone that pretty much nobody has cased at all yet that for certain holds somewhere inside the key to obtaining armor that is a whole level above anything else generally available in the game might just get you somewhere. Really, you're just waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting.

[divisortheory]

I dont get it, i though they already added gear progression with salvage, or did i miss the thread announcing how shitty the gear is?

Salvage is soooo stupid though. It's hard, man. It's so fucking hard!!! We want gear progression and we don't want it to be hard!!!

[Xavier]

I dont get it, i though they already added gear progression with salvage, or did i miss the thread announcing how shitty the gear is?

They did, but there are still parts of the game that are a problem.

Basically he's saying 3 expansions in doing this shouldn't be just because you feel like it, knowing that even if you win you'll have nothing to show for it.

Yeah, that kinda sums it up nicely. Congratulations for getting a ton of really nice gear, you can use it to get nothing now.

And the reason Salvage gear is progression but Salvage itself isn't is because you spend half the run completely naked, making all of the gear you've spent the past few years aquiring irrelevent anyway.

I dont get it, i though they already added gear progression with salvage, or did i miss the thread announcing how shitty the gear is?

Salvage is soooo stupid though. It's hard, man. It's so fucking hard!!! We want gear progression and we don't want it to be hard!!!

You're just a dick at this point. Mocking something to sidestep the actual argument is pimp.

If they're going to keep adding worldspawns, they need to not have completely pointless/shitty gear. Everything else in the game is irrelevent to that argument, because its not whats being discussed. Most people love Dynamis, Limbus, and a lot of people are experimentng on Salvage. But thats only a part of the game, and the HNM Kings aspect does exist, and that part is broken.

[Ninjiz]

I think one area they really succeeded in, is LIMBUS.

Although certain job drop rate are atrocious. And you see teh same jobs drop over and over and over. But overall it successful. You have Progression for your AF, and then awsome fighst at the end to get some of the best gear out there for certain jobs. ie: Homam/Narisha

I dislike artifical difficulty ie take stuff away from you. Which is why i enjoy limbus so much.

I like the fact that Salvage is hard, and theres awsome gear waiting at the end however i think it could have been implemented a bit better, more along the line of Limbus.

[aurik]

If they're going to keep adding worldspawns, they need to not have completely pointless/shitty gear. Everything else in the game is irrelevent to that argument, because its not whats being discussed. Most people love Dynamis, Limbus, and a lot of people are experimentng on Salvage. But thats only a part of the game, and the HNM Kings aspect does exist, and that part is broken.

You have a good point, but I'd argue that even "good" worldspawns are inherently broken, because their loot pools will either be too common to the point of irrelevancy (aegishjalmr), or too rare to the point of fruitlessness (d.ring, ridill, hauteclaire). But yea it would be nice to see a generally improving loot pool as the difficulty increases, instead of a steadily decreasing one.

[NynJa]

And the reason Salvage gear is progression but Salvage itself isn't is because you spend half the run completely naked, making all of the gear you've spent the past few years aquiring irrelevent anyway.

Maybe that's SE's intention ??

"You dont need a Ridill, Dalmatica, Adaman Hauberk to do this. This is based on the collective skill and determination of the group, not whos got the best bot and biggest zerg numbers".... "oh, and whoever has the biggest spare inventory to hold all the high potions"

[divisortheory]

You're just a dick at this point. Mocking something to sidestep the actual argument is pimp.

Actually I'm mocking it because it's a stupid attitude. It may not be the attitude that you personally hold, but it's pretty prevalent. If you want to say I'm being a dick to the people who have stupid and shitty attitudes, then so be it. I have no complaints there.

[Xavier]

And the reason Salvage gear is progression but Salvage itself isn't is because you spend half the run completely naked, making all of the gear you've spent the past few years aquiring irrelevent anyway.

Maybe that's SE's intention ??

"You dont need a Ridill, Dalmatica, Adaman Hauberk to do this. This is based on the collective skill and determination of the group, not whos got the best bot and biggest zerg numbers".

Haven't you just successfully argued speedy progression? Not only is previous gear obsolete its also irrelevent. There should be a happy medium somewhere where the players who have been playing the game have a slight advantage over newer players, but not to the point of cock-blocking.

If you want to say I'm being a dick to the people who have stupid and shitty attitudes, then so be it. I have no complaints there.

I just have a problem with mocking people who don't realize they're being mocked. Its like getting into a fight with a cripple.

[geno]

Completely off topic, but 4 different relic owners posted in a row! Amazing how much more obtainable relics are than anyone would have ever guessed a year or two ago.

[Xavier]

And then you had to go and ruin it, you non-relic poster.

[divisortheory]

I just have a problem with mocking people who don't realize they're being mocked. Its like getting into a fight with a cripple.

I crossed 2 lanes of traffic once to hit a huge puddle which would splash a guy in a wheelchair who was riding down the sidewalk once. Does that count?

[Xavier]

I don't know if that makes you a dick or a god, its a tossup.

[killerx]

you can be gods dick? maybe idk

[Sagacious Sundi]

The relic posters posted in the order their combat skills are listed in-game (I think): H2H>Dagger>Shield, and Aegis is the last relic added, right? That's gotta be a sign for things to come.

I crossed 2 lanes of traffic once to hit a huge puddle which would splash a guy in a wheelchair who was riding down the sidewalk once.

Clearly the act of a total... A total, uh... Y'know, a total... Uh... Uh, what's the word I'm looking for here... Uh... Uh... Total, uh...

...Sorry, with all of this talk about dicks I had to quote it.

[Xavier]

The relic posters posted in the order their combat skills are listed in-game (I think): H2H>Dagger>Shield, and Aegis is the last relic added, right? That's gotta be a sign for things to come.

RELIC PROGRESSION LOL

(sorry, I don't really feel that way but I couldn't skip it)

[NynJa]

The relic posters posted in the order their combat skills are listed in-game (I think): H2H>Dagger>Shield, and Aegis is the last relic added, right? That's gotta be a sign for things to come.

Relic Evasion ?