Heated Endgame Discussion

[layoneil]

Level caps don't work.
Pathos doesn't work.

these are crappy, they limit you from things you should already have.

and Pathos would be kind of okay if they implemented it better. to make everyone lose everything everytime you enter is dumb. you can strategize around it but it's still boring to play without stuff.

Pop times don't work.
Drop rates don't work.

these are crappy because they don't account for an increasing population faster than their development cycle.

drop rates can be okay if more things are like 3 Kings, Proto bosses and Bahamut V2. at least one thing that doesn't suck should be 100%.

the combination of the these two is the worse.

Insanely powerful magic spells don't work.
Insanely powerful TP moves don't work.

powerful is okay, insanely powerful not so much. i'm talking AV stuff and to an extent Spike Flail. Citadel Buster, Bahamut Flares are fine because you have ample warning for most people to avoid it.

Time limits don't work.
Access to two hours doesn't work.
Summoned pets don't work.
Rage modes don't work.

most of these are fine, though Time Limit and Rage Mode are kind of redundant.

Access to two hours are fine when it's not ridiculous, multiple benedictions on a mob that takes hours to damage to begin with, Chainspell with the ability to use high damage AOE spells, repeated Mijin Gakures, repeated Astral Flows.

Summoned pets are fine, adds in general are fine, summoned or not.

[Not Kuno]

and Pathos would be kind of okay if they implemented it better. to make everyone lose everything everytime you enter is dumb. you can strategize around it but it's still boring to play without stuff.

It's not so bad. The mobs scale in Salvage and they dont require the pimp gear to kill at first. The only zone I'm unsatisfied with armor drops in is Zhay. In the rest most every melee gets their stuff unlocked at some point.

Access to two hours are fine when it's not ridiculous, multiple benedictions on a mob that takes hours to damage to begin with, Chainspell with the ability to use high damage AOE spells, repeated Mijin Gakures, repeated Astral Flows.

Summoned pets are fine, adds in general are fine, summoned or not.

I agree with this mostly. The only recent NM to defy this are the ToAU beastmen generals like Medusa. They have alot of pets that respawn and the NM uses stupid WS and it's such a dumb fight.

[Tajin]

Speaking of the ToAU generals, anybody kills them on regular basis? be it JP/NA/FR/GE/Other

It's not like they drop juggernaut or even a loldiamond >.>

[Croaker]

I assume most people who are getting unhappy with the game hit 75 long ago. Maybe its time to try something else?


Here some ramblings that dont necessarily add anything to the thread.....

I think Cerberus, Khimaria and Hydra were fun challenges for a while, but there is a limit to how tough you can make something and have it still beatable. AV?

It doesnt make sense for monsters equal in level to Nidhogg to drop items better than Nidhogg. They should add higher level monsters. To add those they should raise the level cap. (WoW did it)

Some people say that a level increase would not be compatable with Merits. I don't understand this. I would switch to EXP mode, go level up to 76, then switch back to merits again. What is incompatable about going from level 75 with 3 STR merits to level 76 with 3 STR merits?

A fear used to be that they raised the level cap mages could get refresh from their subjob. Then they gave PLD refresh and parade gorget and they also gave all the mages various refresh gear. 5/mp per tick just became the new standard instead of of 3 and people still wont party without a RDM. They could also just raise main job level and keep subjobs capped at 37.

If they don't want level 90 players soloing Kirin, then can simply make the teleporter not work anymore for jobs over 75.

Personally, I would like to learn what planet AV comes from. Id like to go there, level up to 100, and kick his leaders ass. But, if I don't get that, I can always go play another game.

[Chreman]

I think what a lot of people are missing is that when it comes to player to SE communications you really have no bargaining chip you're readily going to use.

This topic of "FFXI sucks, here's what you should do to fix it" has been rehashed so many times on this forum it's getting redundant and stupid. Everyone always lists off what SE needs to do or people are going to start quitting without taking action or quitting themselves. SE doesn't owe you anything for your monthly subscription sans access to the game itself. You're not paying for them to adhere to your every wish, you're paying for the product as it is now and as it will be after updates.

Everyone who still plays this game and complains about it is in the same group, be it the BG elites who know everything there is to know about the game and legitimately have an idea of what would make it better or the allakhazam idiots who want a better droprate on leaping boots. In the eyes of SE you're all the same people, the ones who still fill out the check once a month to play a game they are dreadfully tired of.

So stop this pointless debate about whether or not SE should be listening to you and making the changes you want to see to their game. If you don't like what's going on, quit. That's the most reasonable and logical action you can take.

[Xavier]

I don't like whats going on in America I think I'll just leave the country.

The day that debate becomes pointless is the day that we're being let back into the garden. Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Obviously Square doesn't have to listen to us but talking about problems has never in and of itself been a problem.

The only crime is -not- talking about a problem, letting yourself be kicked around, under the guise that nothing you do matters at all. I know for sure that Square is even less likely to listen to me once I stop paying them money, so your suggestion just perpetuates the problem.

And, more than that, these are FFXI Endgame forums, where endgame is discussed. Its a place specifically designed to talk about endgame encounters, and the problems with them. If you don't want to read pointless debate, you don't have to.

[Chreman]

What problem? In SE's eyes, there is no problem. What difference does it make to them that you're pissed off about the game when you're still shelling out the cash?

I understand people need to vent about their problems with a game. . . but the people who expect the game's maker to actually listen to them and make changes accordingly are fooling themselves.

[Sagacious Sundi]

I don't like whats going on in America I think I'll just leave the country.

And go where? I was thinking if I ever left the US I'd move to Canada or Australia.

*I would've had a countriesthatmakefunofamericathatneversavetheday joke, but I changed my mind.

[Xavier]

What problem? In SE's eyes, there is no problem. What difference does it make to them that you're pissed off about the game when you're still shelling out the cash?

I understand people need to vent about their problems with a game. . . but the people who expect the game's maker to actually listen to them and make changes accordingly are fooling themselves.

You can be upset about something without the expectation of change.

Note that I said I felt the HNM changes would be really positive for the game, but would never happen. I'm not an idiot.

I didn't know Square ran this website. Oh, wait, its The Order of the Blue Gartr, and endgame FFXI linkshells site. I don't understand how you're associating debate and discussion with the expectation that Square gives a damn. Hell, this entire thread started because I said Square didn't give a damn.

What difference does it make to them that you're pissed off about the game when you're still shelling out the cash?

Where did I say I gave a damn if Square cared?

[Chreman]

I guess i'm just getting confused with the whole situation.

You're asking for better gear to be dropping. then they give you khimaera drops. But that's not good enough because it's tough to get.

You don't care what SE thinks. I don't know if I believe this because the whole "I don't care" card gets played when you're not getting listened to and you don't have any other way to cope with being ignored.

I don't really know much about you except for the whole aegis thing and the whole BG WoW drama I've heard from others, but I get the feeling you're the kind of person who likes to bitch a lot when things don't go your way and engage in online battle of wits with anyone who disagrees with you or doesn't respect your authority as sackholder and admin of these boards.

[Lordender]

don't get "tough to get" confused with unreasonable drop rates, some servers have yet to see a sword drop since the december patch when it was implemented. I would label "tough to get" items as upgraded relic weapons.

[Kazen]

I get the feeling you're the kind of person who likes to bitch a lot when things don't go your way and engage in online battle of wits with anyone who disagrees with you or doesn't respect your authority as sackholder and admin of these boards.

And thats where you are incorrect. I dont think i've ever seen xav bitch about anything in ls.

[Xavier]

You're asking for better gear to be dropping. then they give you khimaera drops. But that's not good enough because it's tough to get.

Tough to get has nothing to do with it. You're right, you are confused.

You don't care what SE thinks. I don't know if I believe this because the whole "I don't care" card gets played when you're not getting listened to and you don't have any other way to cope with being ignored.

Again, you can make suggestions and you can debate issues without expecting a change. Obviously since this thread made over 20 pages in 3 days, people have a lot to say.

I don't really know much about you except for the whole aegis thing and the whole BG WoW drama I've heard from others, but I get the feeling you're the kind of person who likes to bitch a lot when things don't go your way and engage in online battle of wits with anyone who disagrees with you or doesn't respect your authority as sackholder and admin of these boards.

Who the fuck are you, lol? That last paragraph was kinda overflowing with angst and past issues. I get the feeling you're some anon troll out for a joyride to prove your e-peen and balls of steel.

[Lordwafik]

You're asking for better gear to be dropping. then they give you khimaera drops. But that's not good enough because it's tough to get.

Because all the beastmasters are going WILD for Khimera JSE.

[JMunin]

It comes down to control.

Amongst endgame activities, I enjoy Limbus and Assault the most. In both areas you're working toward things to buy through either ancient beastcoins or assault points. If you want Nashira or Homan, you do successful runs of Limbus until you get the chips. You want some af +1? That can be farmed as well with minimal frustration. Full Yigit? The only thing stopping you is yourself.

When control is taken from me--when the game decides when I do dynamis, when a drop I want is subject to randomization and I'll never know precisely when I'll get my grubby paws on it--that's when I begin to grow frustrated. Would dynamis be less frustrating if currency could be used to buy af2? I like the idea of working toward something rather then waiting for it to fall in my lap.

Control is why the revamped idea for kings and abjurations is so appealing: our play experience becomes more dynamic as we work for what we want. We're frustrated when botters monopolize claims, but they probably feel a hell of a lot better since they have more control of the situation than those of us that decide not to cheat.

Salvage walks a fine line: going to Salvage is in your control. If you farm assault for maximum points, you can go four times a week. And when everything is completely figured out and adjusted properly, you'll probably be able to say "I can go x amount of times to Salvage and should be able to get y." "Should" is the operative word here, because there are some random, sometimes frustrating elements to Salvage that the community just doesn't want to deal with. And that's fine.

It's your decision.

[Xfaustx]

they go CooCoo for Khimaira drops...

[Devia]

So stop this pointless debate about whether or not SE should be listening to you and making the changes you want to see to their game. If you don't like what's going on, quit.

This forum is for endgame discussion. If you don't like what's going on, leave.

edited for brain fade word omission

[Lordwafik]

they go CooCoo for Khimaira drops...

i go Loolool at khimera drops

[Tajin]

they go CooCoo for Khimaira drops...

i go Loolool at khimera drops (except me)

[Chreman]

The whole better gear comment was focused on the paladin sword, which i guess wasn't clear enough lol.

I'm not after pumping my e-peen or balls of steel here, I'm just a long time reader of BG who's seen a lot of the "omg fix this SE" threads and wanted to chime in. I wasn't aware this was a thread only available to people who have a general distaste for FFXI and everything else in their life, I won't do it again.

And Xavier, I'm not trying to get into a post war with you, just trying to put my finger on what exactly drives you to play this game and be so proud of a relic your LS helped you with while at the same time bitching about how this game is useless and we'll never be worth playing, just doesn't make any sense to me.