Heated Endgame Discussion

[Sagacious Sundi]

You're asking for better gear to be dropping. then they give you khimaera drops. But that's not good enough because it's tough to get.

Because all the beastmasters are going WILD for Khimera JSE.

Pun.

[Xfaustx]

they go CooCoo for Khimaira drops...

i go Loolool at khimera drops (except me)

._.

but yes SE should give the players more options to let the game be in the players hands, not decided by fate and/or luck. to much stuff is random pop times and random drops. they should give us 100% drops that we hafta collect to get certain items. trade-ins. like AB for Drops or dyna currency for relic. i totally agree with that post.

[Xavier]

I wasn't aware this was a thread only available to people who have a general distaste for FFXI and everything else in their life

trying to put my finger on what exactly drives you to play this game and be so proud of a relic your LS helped you with while at the same time bitching about how this game is useless and we'll never be worth playing, just doesn't make any sense to me.

You're clearly the product of the 21st century American culture where dissent = treason.

I've never said the entire game was useless. I've given quite a bit of praise to Limbus, Dynamis, and said that Salvage is quirky fun. How you reach the conclusion that because I'm dissatisfied with one aspect of the game I hate it all, on top of being unhappy with everything else in my life (lol?) is beyond me.

If you don't want to participate in endgame discussion, these aren't the forums for you. And FYI, the argument, "if you don't like it, quit" would defeat the purpose of these threads to begin with.

[Lordender]

The whole better gear comment was focused on the paladin sword, which i guess wasn't clear enough lol.

I'm not after pumping my e-peen or balls of steel here, I'm just a long time reader of BG who's seen a lot of the "omg fix this SE" threads and wanted to chime in. I wasn't aware this was a thread only available to people who have a general distaste for FFXI and everything else in their life, I won't do it again.

Pretty sure that the arguement that was stated is when you thought SE was listening they do something stupid that pisses off their end game players >.>

[Chreman]

And FYI, the argument, "if you don't like it, quit" would defeat the purpose of these threads to begin with.

My point exactly lol.

Okay, just wanted to give my thoughts on the subject. I'll leave now and you guys can get back to the 'endgame discussion' you're so adamant about.

[Xfaustx]

ill slay you...

[Aerin]

I wasn't aware this was a thread only available to people who have a general distaste for FFXI and everything else in their life

trying to put my finger on what exactly drives you to play this game and be so proud of a relic your LS helped you with while at the same time bitching about how this game is useless and we'll never be worth playing, just doesn't make any sense to me.

You're clearly the product of the 21st century American culture where dissent = treason.

I've never said the entire game was useless. I've given quite a bit of praise to Limbus, Dynamis, and said that Salvage is quirky fun. How you reach the conclusion that because I'm dissatisfied with one aspect of the game I hate it all, on top of being unhappy with everything else in my life (lol?) is beyond me.

If you don't want to participate in endgame discussion, these aren't the forums for you. And FYI, the argument, "if you don't like it, quit" would defeat the purpose of these threads to begin with.

Indeed if you bother to read the posts before you Xavier has said time and again that there's good things about the game.

But that's not what this thread is really about. This thread is about how to make the game better, and why what's been implemented so far isn't that good.

If you think that this is just a thread of people who simply hate ffxi and wish it would die then you clearly have no fucking clue

[Kazen]

And FYI, the argument, "if you don't like it, quit" would defeat the purpose of these threads to begin with.

My point exactly lol.

Okay, just wanted to give my thoughts on the subject. I'll leave now and you guys can get back to the 'endgame discussion' you're so adamant about.

Your thoughts of judging someone you dont even know with a stereotype of relic owners?

[Xavier]

And FYI, the argument, "if you don't like it, quit" would defeat the purpose of these threads to begin with.

My point exactly lol.

Okay, just wanted to give my thoughts on the subject. I'll leave now and you guys can get back to the 'endgame discussion' you're so adamant about.

I meant it would defeat the purpose of these forums.

Because if you can't debate endgame here, then you might as well just read alla because it'd all be the same.

[Quicklet]

these are crappy, they limit you from things you should already have.

and Pathos would be kind of okay if they implemented it better. to make everyone lose everything everytime you enter is dumb. you can strategize around it but it's still boring to play without stuff.

The main problem with level caps was always that it was incompatible mostly with inventory restrictions in the game. I don't think level capped areas would have been as much of an issue if multiple gear sets and gear swapping was a manageable task, but it became so cumbersome that nobody liked it.

As for pathos... I think the concept isn't bad, maybe it could've used a little more work and drop rates in some places might want a little tuning, but the overall concept is a hell of a lot better than CoP Dynamis subjob limitations. Now CoP Dynamis subjob limitations were a terribly implemented idea.

these are crappy because they don't account for an increasing population faster than their development cycle.

drop rates can be okay if more things are like 3 Kings, Proto bosses and Bahamut V2. at least one thing that doesn't suck should be 100%.

Completely agree. It's a simple matter of demographics and statistics. You want content to last X amount of months before a group of players exhausts farming it, where X should never be more than 2 expansion cycles worth of farming, ideally 1-1.5.

Also, for time put in, there should almost always be something at least theoretically desirable given back out on success. Sea is the prime example of terrible Time vs Reward scheme and terrible itemization.

powerful is okay, insanely powerful not so much. i'm talking AV stuff and to an extent Spike Flail. Citadel Buster, Bahamut Flares are fine because you have ample warning for most people to avoid it.

Insanely powerful is okay when the fight is designed to trigger it if you mess up or do something you're not supposed to (Spike Flail), but flat out AV moves are pretty retarded. The main issue with Spike Flail is that it's just gotten old since the whole CoP motif was wyrm after wyrm after wyrm.

most of these are fine, though Time Limit and Rage Mode are kind of redundant.

Access to two hours are fine when it's not ridiculous, multiple benedictions on a mob that takes hours to damage to begin with, Chainspell with the ability to use high damage AOE spells, repeated Mijin Gakures, repeated Astral Flows.

Summoned pets are fine, adds in general are fine, summoned or not.

The time limit was one of the major annoyances about Dynamis (and pretty much all the instanced content). If they REALLY need some kind of artificial limitation for server reasons, which seems less likely now that they've implemented semi/full instancing, it would be nice to see something besides time be the condition for being kicked out (one possibility could include being unraiseable after X number of deaths in the zone).

I feel like the concept of adds (like so many other things) has gotten stale and has only really been responded to with (in most cases) more people to kill the adds, or higher DPS strategies, not necessarily better or new strategy.

Overall, it boils down to the fact that people usually complain about implementation when it either wastes their time, is a massive hassle to do, has a terrible time vs reward rate, or anything else along those lines. It's really hard to imagine how a designer couldn't understand that and wouldn't be able to fix that, especially if they just listened to the feedback of the players who've actually spent the most time testing/playing their content.

[aurik]

Sea is the prime example of terrible Time vs Reward scheme and terrible itemization.

This big problem with Sea is also its saving grace: verything is on a 15 minute repop timer. You could, with enough manpower, just eternally repop some of the Sea NMs. And on many servers, gil sellers did just that for a few weeks, until they realized that almost nothing of tradeable value really dropped there unless you could kill AV. The earrings are a dreadfully slow sell for the kind of price which justifies time/effort invested in getting them.

If the Sea NMs dropped hot-ticket sellable items you can bet we'd see a troop of anon blms popping temperance all day long.

Now if they had added some hot ex gear to sea as well, stuff that would compete with haidate/gaiters/ridill/etc, as long as it was EX, that would have been much better.

I feel like the concept of adds (like so many other things has gotten stale and has only really been responded to with (in most cases) more people to kill the adds, or higher DPS strategies, not necessarily better or new strategy.

Or sac pulling, or eternal kiting. Adds are an interesting facet of a fight but should not be the main attraction anymore, not after jorm and vrtra, whose fights are practically defined by adds.

[NynJa]

Rage modes are utterly useless because they're absurdly long...

Faf+HQ king 1 hour ?? should be 45 tops.
Adaman and Behemoth 30 minutes ?? Those shouldnt be more than 15.
LoO (KC era) was ONE HOUR !! ONE HOUR !! Should be 15.

Wiki page says that LoO was 20 minutes, however I can not believe that because I saw some people spend 50 minutes fighting it, and it developed no forms of SSJ. Behemoth is apparently one hour as well. Behemoth can be killed by a group of 6 half intelligent people in like 10 minutes. It does not need to be 1 hour.

These things make the rage system a joke.




About Salvage's self-gimping, I'm still kinda curious on this:

When adventurers begin a Salvage mission, they may have as many as 20 different limits hampering their abilities, equipment, attributes, and more.

Its written to sound like theres a way to get certain things ungimped.

[Tajin]

they go CooCoo for Khimaira drops...

Everyone goes Loolool at khimera drops (except me)

._.

>.>

[Orph]

I think rage should be more random within a set amount of time. Like for faf/nid something like anytime between 30mins and an hour. It can happen anytime between then and if it does, for the ls fighting, better luck tomorrow.

That or make at least fafhoggs based on the amounts of sleeps used. After like 5 sleeps it just wakes up and kills everyone. That obviously wouldnt work with nonsleepable mobs so something else would be needed on them. I just always hated certain lses that would sleep fafnir 10 times in a row before they start fighting again.

[Sagacious Sundi]

About Salvage's self-gimping, I'm still kinda curious on this:

When adventurers begin a Salvage mission, they may have as many as 20 different limits hampering their abilities, equipment, attributes, and more.

Its written to sound like theres a way to get certain things ungimped.

I think it means you may have 20, but you may have 0-19 through the use of imbued items. But then again I'm no grammar expert.

On a side-note, I'm thinking Nyzul Isle might have different Pathos for various Assault missions and different imbued items (like one that would remove 1 random pathos, 5 that would entirely remove one type of Pathos [i.e. 1 that would entirely get rid of Encumberment], 1 that would randomly remove one type, 1 that would completely clear you of the pathos, etc.)

[Quicklet]

Its written to sound like theres a way to get certain things ungimped.

It would be nice if wearing the completed Salvage equipment/sets reduced the number of pathos on you, but I would imagine that would've been mentioned by now since people have already completed some pieces.

In fact, now that I think about it, that would be an awesome way to make Salvage suck less as you do it more. Progressive content FTW.

[NynJa]

About Salvage's self-gimping, I'm still kinda curious on this:

When adventurers begin a Salvage mission, they may have as many as 20 different limits hampering their abilities, equipment, attributes, and more.

Its written to sound like theres a way to get certain things ungimped.

I think it means you may have 20, but you may have 0-19 through the use of imbued items. But then again I'm no grammar expert.

It explicitly states "when adventurers begin..." though.

[Quicklet]

It explicitly states "when adventurers begin..." though.

Needs a good JP translate to see if it's actually that in Japanese.

[Ferien]

Behemoth is apparently one hour as well.

Woah wait, Behemoth's rage timer is 1h as well? I definitely thought it was 30min. Time to go soloing...

[Xavier]

I remember when rage timers first came out, someone posting pictures of Behemoth going into it and utterly fking people up. I guess my question is how the fk did someone take over an hour to kill NQ Behemoth? Even solo wouldn't take an hour, you'd either have won or be dead by that point.