Heated Endgame Discussion

[Yeargdribble]

Having an FFXI addiction, is like being addicted to cheap cocaine. You know its cheap, you know there is most likely better quality stuff out there, but you are addicted anyway, so you stick with it.

WoW > FFXI arguments are old, we'll quit when the addiction wears off.

My argument isn't really WoW vs FFXI. It's an issue of how I think a game should run. GMs should not be crippled. The devs should listen to the playerbase, Alt+Tab should be viable and RMT shouldn't own every aspect of the game.

I can make my argument without even bring WoW into it, but some people tend to say that these goals aren't realistic because every MMORPG has these problems. Those are the addicted love goggles FFXIers (whose first and only MMORPG was probably FFXI like it was mine) refuse to look at this evidence. This is why I bring up WoW which manages to succeed in the areas mentioned.

If I was really talking about WoW vs FFXI I'd bring up issues like soloability, easy to get rewards, easy to get money etc. Those are subjective issues though and not everyone may enjoy the play style or graphics of WoW.

However, you can't defend FFXI on the basis of their stellar customer support and problem solving when they obviously suck at it... and furthermore there are companies that show how it can be done 10x better.

[FinalJustice]

Well in all honesty WOW did mark an evolution in MMORPG (design). What?? Things dont have to cater to the people who play the game the longest each day and still be fun for everyone else who cant devote that time?? GASP!! Many things WOW did was do away with many outdated arcahic mmorpgs mechanics, and that is why it has such a high player base.

I dont play wow because i like FFs world better, its animation, combat, spell effects, overall graphical look. So thats why i dont play WOW, even though certain mechanics blow FFXIs away. I think SE is trying to adopt some of those mechanics, but only time will tell if they do it right.

[Siatdiat]

Well in all honesty WOW did mark an evolution in MMORPG (design). What?? Things dont have to cater to the people who play the game the longest each day and still be fun for everyone else who cant devote that time?? GASP!! Many things WOW did was do away with many outdated arcahic mmorpgs mechanics, and that is why it has such a high player base.

I dont play wow because i like FFs world better, its animation, combat, spell effects, overall graphical look. So thats why i dont play WOW, even though certain mechanics blow FFXIs away. I think SE is trying to adopt some of those mechanics, but only time will tell if they do it right.

WoW graphics scale up with your pc. WoW looks insanely better than FFXI on my pc.

[Dezzimal]

An actual endgame would be something where you don't do the same content day in and day out. I ran dynamis for a long time, the same 6 zones and then some of the newer ones. Theres no moving onward, its the same instance again and again. Same with bahamut #2, ouryu, fafnir etc, you just do the same monsters again and again.

People who play WoW would term these things farmed content. Although it is easy loot for the most part, you want to be done with it as quickly as possible. Get in, get people the gear they need for new content, get out. This way you're not stuck killing the same monster while you're half asleep.

[Yeargdribble]

Well in all honesty WOW did mark an evolution in MMORPG (design). What?? Things dont have to cater to the people who play the game the longest each day and still be fun for everyone else who cant devote that time?? GASP!! Many things WOW did was do away with many outdated arcahic mmorpgs mechanics, and that is why it has such a high player base.

I dont play wow because i like FFs world better, its animation, combat, spell effects, overall graphical look. So thats why i dont play WOW, even though certain mechanics blow FFXIs away. I think SE is trying to adopt some of those mechanics, but only time will tell if they do it right.

WoW graphics scale up with your pc. WoW looks insanely better than FFXI on my pc.

I will definitely say that WoWs graphics are a matter of personal taste and I can understand why many dislike them. They look stellar on my computer as I can max them out and still run at 60 FPS. At the same time, I really do enjoy FFXIs graphics. Sadly, even with a great system FFXI can potentially run crappy on your computer because of the poor emulation.

[FinalJustice]

WoW graphics scale up with your pc. WoW looks insanely better than FFXI on my pc.

No.. WOW has more vibrant colors then FFXI, but its more cartoony then FFXI, FFXI has more detail in its models then wow does, not to mention even on the highest PC setting the character models are still blocky in comparison. So it mostly comes down to what artstyle do you like the best. FFXI has more detailed textures in its characters, the buidlings, the ground, the backgrounds, trees, monsters etc etc, while WOW has more vibrant cartoony textures. Its almost like comparing realistic textures in one game to cell shading in some other game. So I like FFXI style better.

And yes WoW has a much higher resolution, and ploygon count, because FFXI is based off of PS2 hardware, but if you want to see what FFXI would have looked like if it was made with Next gen in mind around teh same time WOW was made then look at SE\\\'s next MMORPG here, which was demo\\\'d in May of 2006, and its due out maybe in 2008 if things go right.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MOR795E7vag

I would argue that it looks better then WOW already.

[Yeargdribble]

I've also noticed that WoW doesn't FRAPs well. When you're not actually there and you're not actually playing and moving it kinda looks like a bad cell shading with bright color thrown up on it.

FFXI pictures not only look awesome, but when polished in PS you can make some incredible looking screenshots. There's really not shit you can do to a WoW screenshot to give it that same picturesque look.

[Dammerung]

stupidly long url

http://www.tinyurl.com

Use it please.

[FinalJustice]

Yes your majesty, ill get right on that.....

[Dammerung]

Yes your majesty, ill get right on that.....

Those 6 url all directed me to the same page. Here you go:

http://tinyurl.com/2xch63

[Tomino]

i think the worst about FF endgame is how it relates to the world concept.

i mean, it's kinda stupid that a lvl75 character, with merit and good overall gear from 2 yrs of HNM can still die when OPing to Cape Terrigan because the aggro of one or two "easy prey" goblin can kill him.

the way i picture endgame contest and player scaling vs environment, after many years of playing the character should *at least* be able to wander the whole outside world (not sneaking in it, lol) and be able to easily overcome almost any outdoor challenge, leaving high-level content like dynamises/sky/sea/wyrms/etc to be handled with the help of others.

and yes, i wasnt referring to nin/rdm/blm.

[Zigma]

Except maybe, just maybe, possibly, PERHAPS, the world does not revolve around you. Mayhaps there is the tinyest possibility that the people who still enjoy playing FFXI enjoy the content that's there, the people they do it with, and all that it has to offer.

But that would be crazy. Everyone is just like you, you're right. We're all blind! Our genuine enjoyment is just a facade! Obviously we are blind to your absolute, unquestionable truth! What is right for Kandykanes MUST be right for all of man kind, ever. It's IMPOSSIBLE to have a realistic outlook on the game that keeps the disappointments in perspective. It's IMPOSSIBLE for any other MMO company besides SE to make mistakes. We should focus ONLY on the mistakes, and realize that all other MMOs are superior! HOW COULD WE BE SO BLIND AS TO LISTEN TO OURSELVES?!

Thank you for opening my eyes at long last.

With a reply like that, I think it is you with the closed eyes.

[Machazareel]

No.. WOW has more vibrant colors then FFXI, but its more cartoony then FFXI, FFXI has more detail in its models then wow does, not to mention even on the highest PC setting the character models are still blocky in comparison. So it mostly comes down to what artstyle do you like the best. FFXI has more detailed textures in its characters, the buidlings, the ground, the backgrounds, trees, monsters etc etc, while WOW has more vibrant cartoony textures. Its almost like comparing realistic textures in one game to cell shading in some other game. So I like FFXI style better.

Actually, that's quite wrong. FFXI's environmental textures are absolutely horrid compared to WoW. WoW zones have, yes, more vibrant colors, but also smooth terrain models, vastly superior lighting and cleaner textures. Walk around Feralas or Teldrassil in WoW and try to claim that any zone in FFXI can match the visual beauty and I'd be amazed.

Character models and such being cartooney is a purely artistic difference between the two. WoW tries to maintain the visual style of Warcraft 3 that everybody loved, whilst FFXI tries to make things more 'real'.

In general, I do prefer FFXI character models, but there are certain pages from blizzard I honestly wouldn't mind seeing. Take a look at the Tier 5 warlock set in WoW, for example. Having actual effects on really powerful armor and weaponry, while purely aesthetic, is something that I find to bring alot more definition to a character.

Whilst red mages are wearing a green patterned hoodie, a priest would be adorned with white robes, that emit a faint glow as well as a halo-like light above the hood. They take steps to show that things are magical, and it goes over extremely well with the majority of the playerbase.

It comes down to personal artistic preferance, but as far as texture quality and smooth modelling is concerned, WoW trounces FFXI. It's only to be expected, though. One is a game designed for the PC, the other was designed for the PS2.

[FinalJustice]

I dont fully agree.. Wow have better more vibrant colors and i was including lighting in that.

Cleaner terrain was never the example i included. Narually with more vibrant colors, higher resolution, the terrain would look clean....FFXI has Better texturing for detailed realism. (as close as it can get based on ps2 hardward. I already provided comparison pics to show what i mean.

Like i said, you show the most detailed Cell shaded game, and then show the most detailed realistic textured game and the the realistic textured one looks better for detail purposes. Not counting artistic flavor choice.

I personally dont really like glowing effects on clothing that many western devs do in rpgs. Well.... unless done correctly.

But your right FFXI strives for more realistic looks though still anime in nature.

I admitted that WoW has higher poly count, and much higher resolutions, far more vibrant colors, better lighting and all that.

But With FFXI going for more realistic looks its only natural that the textures have more detail in them. But not even just the models, WOWs models are simply blockier, artictic style has nothing to do with it. Look at the mobs. Go to that Link i gave, and look at the big spider mob in WOW.

[Insanecyclone]

On a Geforce 6200(not special i know) but when I tried ffxi again nothing changed, graphics wise, which sadden me for awhile.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3...gmarsh1ej1.jpg


/goes back to trolling general/spam forum~

Also at least having a decent enough card'll fix your lag on wow..Ironforge laged like hell when I used whatever card came with this dell. <_>

[FinalJustice]

yup, far more vibrant, and colorful, with much higher resolution in wow, im not disputing that.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1...0605080mz3.jpg

pic of mamook, not as bright, not as vibrant, but very detailed....

[Terrance]

1/4 size

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t...1-03-53-48.jpg

[FinalJustice]

yea, of Windhurst...
IMO CoP zones looked better than original zones, ToAU looks better than the previous ones. Not by much, but it seems noticable.

[Silvenmyst]

Has anyone played Vanguard yet? Same baisc style as WoW with a few changes, but the graphics would make anything in FFXI wet the bed. Its still buggy as hell, but has improved significantly in the last month of release....wish they would have waited to release however ><. But if you've been waiting for a WoW style game with FFXI graphics, here it is...

http://www.joinvanguard.com You can check the pics yourself. I have (had lol) a top of the line alienware laptop...and my crap zonks on this damn game...its insanely powerful but hits hard as hell on your graphics. Hope you got dual core >.>

[ringthree]

Well in all honesty WOW did mark an evolution in MMORPG (design). What?? Things dont have to cater to the people who play the game the longest each day and still be fun for everyone else who cant devote that time?? GASP!! Many things WOW did was do away with many outdated arcahic mmorpgs mechanics, and that is why it has such a high player base.

I dont play wow because i like FFs world better, its animation, combat, spell effects, overall graphical look. So thats why i dont play WOW, even though certain mechanics blow FFXIs away. I think SE is trying to adopt some of those mechanics, but only time will tell if they do it right.

WoW graphics scale up with your pc. WoW looks insanely better than FFXI on my pc.

The graphics are about the same, even scaled up, because you can reg edit FFXI graphics for higher resolutions.

WoW has some neat things but standard things like ground graphics are very plain and repetitive. FFXI has some neat things, but standard things like equipment is very plain and repetitive.