What if Jesus tomb was found

[Jimmayus]

How about you read a goddamn book and get back to me.

anything by Gary Wills
The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire part 3


Since I read often I will update this with more books on the subject, but I'm sorry, I didn't know writing down common scholastic knowledge for people who don't get the concept was considered watching only the History Channel.

[ozz]

I didn't know writing down common scholastic knowledge for people who don't get the concept was considered watching only the History Channel.

i'd be elated if someone accused me of only watching the history channel that shit is great ;/

[DarktaruFM]

I didn't know writing down common scholastic knowledge for people who don't get the concept was considered watching only the History Channel.

i'd be belated if someone accused me of only watching the history channel that shit is great

sometimes innacurate tho

[quannum]

idt no one thinks the world was created 5k years ago or the garden of eden.

The reason people (not me) take this literally is original sin. nothing died before original sin, not the dinosaurs, not the cambrian critters. it's the reason they say god created the earth in 6 literal days. it's the reason they think job's behemoth was a dinosaur and that people lived with dinosaurs.

If jesus is a literal person, you can 'begat begat begat' all the way back to adam. if you don't think this is true, you have to be prepared to say "so-and-so's father was metaphorical, not literal". if jesus didn't die for everyone's sin including original sin, he wouldn't be the saviour. there'd be no reason to be a christian.

[Xavier]

I don't know whats funnier. Watching religious people defend their faith or other people try to discredit it.

[Remedia]

I don't know whats funnier. Watching religious people defend their faith or other people try to discredit it.

qft

[Devek]

Veracity is important when talking to people about whether the Bible is meant to be taken literally or not, which is the core of most of the questions surrounding fundamentalism. Do you think people would take the Bible completely literally if they knew the letters of Paul where the earliest dated parts of the Bible? It puts the book in perspective, and you are better able to understand inconsistencies in the messages, as well as understand which parts are additions by men later in life who may or may not have had their peoples' best interests at heart.

idt no one thinks the world was created 5k years ago or the garden of eden. Its all just a big metaphor of human reality. Anyway, if youre talking to someone who takes the bible literally, they will most probably wont hear you anyway and claim hearsay.

What happens if someone REALLY takes the bible literately?

Read chapter 1 of Genesis sometimes with the context of a preexisting world recovering from some sort of total annihilation. Still water would be ice and there would be no light because the sky was obstructed by the devastation of a large impact hitting the planet, possibly large enough to wipe out all life. (Science supports this)

I once took a fun class once where this idea was taken pretty seriously by some hard core bible scholars, there are all sorts of parts in the bible that seem inconsistent by speaking to events that would be before Genesis that wouldn't be inconsistent at all if you stop making the assumption the earth was created in 7 days (the bible never really affirms that it was) as opposed to the world as we know it being created in 7 days.

I'm not a Christian or anything.. but I find religion fascinating.

[DarktaruFM]

What happens if someone REALLY takes the bible literately?

thats where you laugh a little inside and ignore the person

[Flarega]

What happens if someone REALLY takes the bible literately?

thats where you laugh a little inside and ignore the person

Funny, thats what happens when I see one of your posts.

[Xavier]

Don't get me wrong, I find history and religion both very fascinating, but I'm smart enough to make up my own mind about how I feel, and not take the 1,700 year old, translated and rewritten multiple time Bible as law.

Religion to me is more of a moral guideline about how to live a good life. When you start making decisions because someone said God said it so, you're in trouble. And when you start making decisions because God directly told you it was so, you're in even deeper trouble.

[DarktaruFM]

Don't get me wrong, I find history and religion both very fascinating, but I'm smart enough to make up my own mind about how I feel, and not take the 1,700 year old, translated and rewritten multiple time Bible as law.

Religion to me is more of a moral guideline about how to live a good life. When you start making decisions because someone said God said it so, you're in trouble. And when you start making decisions because God directly told you it was so, you're in even deeper trouble.

quoted for truth.

and flarega, whats with all the unnecesary flaming... sheesh
you see the irony of the posting and the quote, right?

[Maldra]

I grew up in a crazy Christian family. Not catholic or luthern or w/e. We went to one of those "Spirit Filled" churches where preachers would lay their hands on you and push you down and shit. People would "speak in tongues". Random bullshiht. Was forced to go to church twice a week, sometimes 3 times. Forced to read my bible.

Now, being 20 (21 this sunday :D) and living on my own for over 2 years now, I chose not to go to church or read the bible. Seeing all the fake stuff and fake people really turns you off to any belief in a god. There are so many holes in the truth, who the hell knows what was actually meant to be actual scripture anyways? I haven't believed in god for years now..

But, on the other hand, theres no way I can believe in evolution. The whole idea of it seems silly for one... all this shit coming out of nowhere? Where did the forces for a big explosion come from? If you have an answer to that, where did that come from? And all these complex questions with no answer. Just theories based on someone's conception of thoughts which later didn't even believe himself, if I remember correctly. I would love to see any evolution, where an animal betters itself. A mutation is not an evolution. Its weaker.

There has to be some unthought of explanation to everything... I don't buy evolution or the Christian god.

[Xfaustx]

dang this thread is still goin strong. Jesus is my savior.

[Axil]

I grew up in a crazy Christian family. Not catholic or luthern or w/e. We went to one of those "Spirit Filled" churches where preachers would lay their hands on you and push you down and shit. People would "speak in tongues". Random bullshiht. Was forced to go to church twice a week, sometimes 3 times. Forced to read my bible.

Now, being 20 (21 this sunday :D) and living on my own for over 2 years now, I chose not to go to church or read the bible. Seeing all the fake stuff and fake people really turns you off to any belief in a god. There are so many holes in the truth, who the hell knows what was actually meant to be actual scripture anyways? I haven't believed in god for years now..

But, on the other hand, theres no way I can believe in evolution. The whole idea of it seems silly for one... all this shit coming out of nowhere? Where did the forces for a big explosion come from? If you have an answer to that, where did that come from? And all these complex questions with no answer. Just theories based on someone's conception of thoughts which later didn't even believe himself, if I remember correctly. I would love to see any evolution, where an animal betters itself. A mutation is not an evolution. Its weaker.

There has to be some unthought of explanation to everything... I don't buy evolution or the Christian god.

Youre confusing evolution with "the why" and not "the how"

[Maldra]

I grew up in a crazy Christian family. Not catholic or luthern or w/e. We went to one of those "Spirit Filled" churches where preachers would lay their hands on you and push you down and shit. People would "speak in tongues". Random bullshiht. Was forced to go to church twice a week, sometimes 3 times. Forced to read my bible.

Now, being 20 (21 this sunday :D) and living on my own for over 2 years now, I chose not to go to church or read the bible. Seeing all the fake stuff and fake people really turns you off to any belief in a god. There are so many holes in the truth, who the hell knows what was actually meant to be actual scripture anyways? I haven't believed in god for years now..

But, on the other hand, theres no way I can believe in evolution. The whole idea of it seems silly for one... all this shit coming out of nowhere? Where did the forces for a big explosion come from? If you have an answer to that, where did that come from? And all these complex questions with no answer. Just theories based on someone's conception of thoughts which later didn't even believe himself, if I remember correctly. I would love to see any evolution, where an animal betters itself. A mutation is not an evolution. Its weaker.

There has to be some unthought of explanation to everything... I don't buy evolution or the Christian god.

Youre confusing evolution with "the why" and not "the how"

Tell me where I said "why". I don't see the relevance of your post anyhow...

[BRP]

For now on, I'll just worship Boromir.

http://www.twelvenoon.com/boromir/images/b.jpg

[Stilgar]

owned by something called Patriot resource.

[Mystywysty]

Religion to me is more of a moral guideline about how to live a good life. When you start making decisions because someone said God said it so, you're in trouble. And when you start making decisions because God directly told you it was so, you're in even deeper trouble.

I find it extremely lacking as a moral guideline myself. I for one find many passages in these holy books to be abhorrent. Take these passages for example taken from the Old Testament, New Testament and Qu'ran respectively:

"You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people." - Exodus, 31:14

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans, 5:12

"They would love to see you deny the truth even as they have denied it, so that you should be like them. Do not, therefore, take them for your allies until they forsake the domain of evil [108] for the sake of God; and if they revert to [open] enmity, seize them and slay them wherever you may find them. And do not take any of them [109] for your ally or giver of succour," -4:89

But, on the other hand, theres no way I can believe in evolution. The whole idea of it seems silly for one... all this shit coming out of nowhere? Where did the forces for a big explosion come from? If you have an answer to that, where did that come from? And all these complex questions with no answer. Just theories based on someone's conception of thoughts which later didn't even believe himself, if I remember correctly. I would love to see any evolution, where an animal betters itself. A mutation is not an evolution. Its weaker.

Evolution is not a theory explaining how everything came to be. Unfortunately, it seems you've made the mistake of thinking that evolution explains the origins of the universe. It doesn't. Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.

You also appear to be saying that Charles Darwin himself did not believe in evolution which is blatantly false. Darwin did not recant on his deathbed. That was all made up BS that even Darwin's own family denied.

Remember that individuals do not become "better", populations as a whole do. Take the giraffe's long neck as an example. Giraffes did not always all have long necks. Indeed, there was a time when giraffes had much shorter necks. At some point there was a mutation that caused giraffe to have longer necks, and although there may not have been any benefit to them having longer necks when food was abundant for them at first, when food began to get scarce for the shorter necked giraffe, those with longer necks survived because they could reach food that those shorter necked giraffe could not. Thus, the shorter necked giraffe died out leaving only the longer necked giraffe to pass on their traits to new generations.

[Kenai]

What happens if someone REALLY takes the bible literately?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

First you'll probably laugh, then you'll REALLY think about it and just die inside knowing that there are people who truly believe it.

[DarktaruFM]

im not gonna say people dont take it literally. Just like in any other religion, theres fanatics and zealots who thinks only themselves are right; that is not in discussion imo. What is in discussion imo are the moral teachings you can get if you read the bible as a BIG metaphor of humanity.

Romans 5:2 talks about how an idea can corrupt so many people "read nazism"


4:82 talks about your inner thoughts and how you need to dominate and slay those which are against morality and inner peace.

exodus on the other hand, is just fucked up