Defence Down

[fantasticdan]

Defender overwrites most def-down effects--I used to static with a pld who would use the ability to cancel the def down from sonic wave.

Are you sure about this? I know cocoon will do this, since it shares the same debuff spot as generic defense down effects, similar to haste and slow. However defender and cocoon don't take up the same spot, they stack, so that wouldn't make any sense to me.

[aurik]

My constant "no effect" erases says yes. Get a paladin to confirm.

edit: it might have been sentinel/rampart that he used

[Akanei]

No. Frightful roar, acid bolts, angon, SS jump, enervation, etc ALL take up the same defense down debuff spot and do not stack.

To continue this:
-SS Jump > Angon > Acid Bolt
-SS Jump overwrites Angon, but not the other way around.
-Frightful Roar, from what I've seen, doesn't make sense to be a static # def down; I've had Angon overwritten before by it as well as not.

[fantasticdan]

I just went to sacarium and confirmed defender does NOT overwrite frightful roar defense down, just stacks with it. Defender has it's own description icon when active, not the generic "defense boost" one. I would say it's probably sentinel or something your pld friend was using.

[Damane]

Also do all of these dispel defense bonuses like cocoon? Im pretty sure frightful roar over writes it but do the others do it? And is it for all defense bonuses

acid bolt, frightfull roar etc remove cocoon defense bonus. they take the same spot. tough I dont know if angon does that too and would take the same spot.

[Damen]

I just went to sacarium and confirmed defender does NOT overwrite frightful roar defense down, just stacks with it. Defender has it's own description icon when active, not the generic "defense boost" one. I would say it's probably sentinel or something your pld friend was using.

Although it's not defender I can say:

Cocoon overwrites sonic wave, and sonic wave overwrites cocoon. But cocoon will not overwrite frightful roar from the mobs in Sacarium.

Then again, I believe the mobs version of frightful roar is a higher tier than the version blu gets, so I'm not sure if cocoon would overwrite frightful roar from a blu in ballista.

[fantasticdan]

But cocoon will not overwrite frightful roar from the mobs in Sacarium.

It just did for me lol, farmed a codex on blu just a little while ago. cocoon overwrote frightful roar defense down everytime. I've farmed probably 8-10 or so codex's and spent a good deal of fighting the tauris, but I've never had cocoon fail to overwrite frightful roar. Most of my farming was done in the aqueducts, but I doubt it's any different in 50 cap.

But yes the defense down from tauris is much higher, more than -50% defense, frightful roar is about -10%. Troll enervation is a much more potent defense down than blu version as well, but cocoon overwrites both versions in my expierience.

[Zilong]

My constant "no effect" erases says yes. Get a paladin to confirm.

edit: it might have been sentinel/rampart that he used

It's the rampart effect that overwrites defense down.

[Delekii]

Cocoon and fightful roar overwrite each other back and fourth, I dont know whether everything in the same slot does though.

[GSDragoon]

No. Frightful roar, acid bolts, angon, SS jump, enervation, etc ALL take up the same defense down debuff spot and do not stack.

To continue this:
-SS Jump > Angon > Acid Bolt
-SS Jump overwrites Angon, but not the other way around.
-Frightful Roar, from what I've seen, doesn't make sense to be a static # def down; I've had Angon overwritten before by it as well as not.

That doesn't make sense. If you land the same defuff of equal effect, it doesn't "miss." If angon were equal to SS + Jump, then it wouldn't matter if you used both or angon right after. I still think SS + jump is more than angon. People claim them to be the same, but I've never seen any numbers to prove it.

As far as frightful roar, I've experienced something similar. A blu would complain about it not having an effect, when I would be using angon. But if I went second, angon had no problem landing.

[Damen]

Cocoon and fightful roar overwrite each other back and fourth, I dont know whether everything in the same slot does though.

I stand corrected then. I think the fomor DEF- move is what i'm thinking of.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I specifically remember leveling off the crawlers in mount z and yea, FR and cocoon would be mutally exclusive. Pretty sure it was the fomor move I was thinking of as I remembered getting owned in one of the ToAU missions (jacking around solo) from the DEF- as /blu but as /whm I could just erase it off.

[fantasticdan]

That doesn't make sense. If you land the same defuff of equal effect, it doesn't "miss." If angon were equal to SS + Jump, then it wouldn't matter if you used both or angon right after. I still think SS + jump is more than angon. People claim them to be the same, but I've never seen any numbers to prove it.

As far as frightful roar, I've experienced something similar. A blu would complain about it not having an effect, when I would be using angon. But if I went second, angon had no problem landing.

Alot of debuff priorities don't make sense, and stronger buff/debuff doesn't always overwrite the weaker, so I wouldn't count on it to figure anything out. Some examples:

Diamondhide will NEVER overwrite standard white magic stoneskin, even as a 75 blu with 307 skill (203 dmg worth of stoneskin), it won't overwrite the stoneskin of a level 28 whm.

Garuda hastega is the same 15% haste as regular white magic haste, but will not overwrite many types of slow that the latter will. Even refueling (10%) has a higher priority, and when cast upon a blu with it active you will get 'no effect'.

Zephyr mantle: 4 shadow blink that is overwritten by and cannot overwrite standard blink (2 shadows) or garuda aerial armor (3 shadows).

EDIT: And in regard to multiple of the same potency debuffs in a row, they must not all follow the same rules. If I cast frightful roar two times in a row on the same mob, the second will say 'has no effect', it doesn't reapply.

[Delekii]

The everlasting and ever-annoying example is RDM slow vs Ninja Slow - Hojo:Ni will always overwrite Slow I, even if Slow I was applied with enough mind to make it considerably more effective.

The effect doesnt control the order of priority.


Edit: As to the above, Hastega is not 15%, it is 10%.

[Akanei]

That doesn't make sense. If you land the same defuff of equal effect, it doesn't "miss." If angon were equal to SS + Jump, then it wouldn't matter if you used both or angon right after. I still think SS + jump is more than angon. People claim them to be the same, but I've never seen any numbers to prove it.

As far as frightful roar, I've experienced something similar. A blu would complain about it not having an effect, when I would be using angon. But if I went second, angon had no problem landing.

How does it not make sense? I said the exact same thing. SS Jump is stronger than Angon which is stronger than an Acid bolt.

Or were you just pointing out what I said for the sake of agreeing. I can never tell anymore <_<

Edit: Anyway, in the case of angon & surge jump, both are static effects (from personal testing, at least; not like I think people will prove otherwise, but anyway..). Meaning, there's no way for angon to ever be potentially stronger than surge jump. That would mean that for surge jump to overwrite, it would need to be stronger, since, for example, you can't stack angon onto angon.

[Tomiko]

As far as frightful roar, I've experienced something similar. A blu would complain about it not having an effect, when I would be using angon. But if I went second, angon had no problem landing.

The 1-2 times I've Merited with a Blu (Greater Colibri/Battle Bugards) my Angon had no effect whenever I used it after not realizing he had already used Frightful Roar.

The only other time I've ever seen Angon not land was in Limbus (Apollyon SE I think, with the Slimes/Crabs/etc)

I don't merit with and Thfs often, so I can't comment on the relationship between Angon and Acid Bolts.

[shihei]

does frightful roar and angon get resisted less then acid bolts?
acid bolts don't seem to proc on alot of new mosters...

[Tomiko]

does frightful roar and angon get resisted less then acid bolts?
acid bolts don't seem to proc on alot of new mosters...

Angon doesn't get resisted. It either lands or has no effect.

[fantasticdan]

does frightful roar and angon get resisted less then acid bolts?
acid bolts don't seem to proc on alot of new mosters...

Frightful roar is generally resisted by the same mobs acid bolts are; like puks and colibri, due to them being wind based.