New Assault Area (03/01/2007)

[Xavier]

People with shitloads of freetime that was spent in DA will feel gypped by this and complain. While the rational, average, everyday person that plays the game for enjoyment will see the positive in this, the dark side of the moon - those people that can and do dedicate massive amounts of time to the game and feel "superior" over others for what is accomplished in that period will bitch and moan.

Just ignore the haters.

I just think its kind of ironic since I'd fall into the category as having spent and dedicated a massive amount of time to get 3 Kings gear.

I have my E. Body, E. Hands, E. Legs (suck), Ridill, N. Head, Hrotti, A. Feet (Yin), got my Black Belt, D. Feet (yeah I went there). The only real thing missing was M. Body, but before Aegis it never really meant as much to me.

So I'm obviously one of the people whos penis would have the most to lose by having other people get the chance to obtain the gear, and yet I think its probably one of the best things Square could do (if this is what it sounds like).

Just...kinda funny. Maybe its different if you've spend as much time as me in Aery etc and -haven't- gotten shit, I can see you feeling like you've wasted your life in that instance, I guess.

[Taj]

I'm a shaaark I'm a sharrrk I win the gaaaame I'm a shaaark. :(

P.S.: Randomly generated my ass, there's just like 20 copies with various subtle nuances.

You can't honestly tell me you think that se could do a true randomized dungeon without having it glitch up and stick people/niddhogs in walls backwards.

...I never said I did, I was just explaining how it's going to be "randomized." There's also walls that can pop up/down (They're untargetable NPCs) as well as doors that will be utilized to add to the "Randomized feel!" I remember targetable walls. 8)

[Sagacious Sundi]

check the JP patch notes and see how its written ??

Why not the French notes?! (Or whichever one had the messed up requirements for Salvage.)

[Quicklet]

Everyone who's saying this is going to be some groundbreaking new system is suffering from the usual case of premature speculation. There isn't going to be any real way to tell how good it will be for a while I imagine, especially if it's something where people may not even stumble across a Fafnir or Behemoth for a month or two.

If they estimate people will complete 5 floors a run on average, I'm guessing that the Assault time limit will be from 60-90 minutes (12-15 minutes a floor). It's possible that some floors might have retarded objectives (something that has nothing to do with combat), and you'll have to choose between whether or not you want to hunt for NMs / get tokens or whether or not you want to complete the objective and advance a floor. If it's truly random (if there is no specific pattern about which floor can contain which mob), it's possible you could spend half an hour clearing a floor looking for a NM.

There is really no way to tell how this will pan out, but for now I'm reserving my judgment until it's actually out.

I'm not really sure how bad the droprate can be, since if they do actually drop abj, every King is going to drop at least one per kill. You don't kill Nidhogg and walk away with Nidhogg scales as your only prize. Of course its all speculation at this point and will be really impossible to tell unless Square clarifies or we actually try it, but I'm waiting in a state of reserved optimism right now.

If they are putting actual copies of NMs/HNMs into the area, I would think it more likely that they would keep the loot tables in-tact (assuming they are giving us their actual loot tables and not completely new items) for the sake of not having to go through every single NM and readjust it.

The more likely scenario is that it would take 2-4 weeks of farming tokens to be able to get to such a high value NM, but that's complete speculation and it probably will work entirely differently from that anyway.

[Jer]

I'm not really mad at the game, I like it, and I accept the way it is but I'm not going to believe that they suddenly decide that all of a sudden you should be able to get an ebody or kbody with 6 people through assault. They are going to give people the chance to fight the mobs in small groups but there is NO way you can convince me the drops will be significantly the same.

You're assuming that the fights are scaled down to the point where Johnny T. is going to be able to do a shout in Whitegate for 5 people to go kill Fafnir.

The rational thing is to assume the fights are somewhere along the difficulty of actually killing Fafnir/Nid/KB with 6 people, which can be done but by no means is easy. If anything, this kind of move would allow the really good HNM linkshells that don't bot their asses off, the opportunity to get gear they've been trying to for the past 3 years but have been cockblocked from getting.

If this is the way it turns out to be, I would be pleased. It's probably been around two years before my ls stopped actively doing kings because of the bot problem (/cue 20 people genuinely trying can outclaim 20 bots quote), and it would be nice to be able to get some of the items again.

In my eyes, it would also solve another problem. There are the people who camp kings. And camp kings. And camp kings. That is what their game experience amounts to. They camp until they get the items they want. Around this time, a good portion of them start to feel like the game doesn't hold anything for them. They got what they wanted, and they find it hard to keep playing. The reason is because they had limited their play to camping and getting these drops, once they get the drops... they're lost. By not forcing (yea, not forcing, but you know what I mean) people to give up to 3 hours of their playtime everyday, just for a chance at claim, which leads to the chance of a drop is ridiculous, especially when you figure in that the chance of claiming is stacked in one person or another's favor.

[Sho]

If it gives Abjs and lolRidills, everyone will be happy regardless

And if it doesn't, people will say it's the shittiest update in ages. Do you see the middle ground? Neither do I.

Yep, but such is the game we play on. 8)

[MF Perm]

People with shitloads of freetime that was spent in DA will feel gypped by this and complain. While the rational, average, everyday person that plays the game for enjoyment will see the positive in this, the dark side of the moon - those people that can and do dedicate massive amounts of time to the game and feel "superior" over others for what is accomplished in that period will bitch and moan.

Just ignore the haters.

I just think its kind of ironic since I'd fall into the category as having spent and dedicated a massive amount of time to get 3 Kings gear.

I have my E. Body, E. Hands, E. Legs (suck), Ridill, N. Head, Hrotti, A. Feet (Yin), got my Black Belt, D. Feet (yeah I went there). The only real thing missing was M. Body, but before Aegis it never really meant as much to me.

So I'm obviously one of the people whos penis would have the most to lose by having other people get the chance to obtain the gear, and yet I think its probably one of the best things Square could do (if this is what it sounds like).

Just...kinda funny. Maybe its different if you've spend as much time as me in Aery etc and -haven't- gotten shit, I can see you feeling like you've wasted your life in that instance, I guess.

Right, but do you feel superior to others that don't have what you have, and do you drop such gems as "if they don't spend all their time here camping it, they don't deserve what it drops," or even "those people suck they don't deserve fafnir."

Those are the people that think "WTF ITS TOO EASY NOW THIS IS BS"

[MF Perm]

If it gives Abjs and lolRidills, everyone will be happy regardless

And if it doesn't, people will say it's the shittiest update in ages. Do you see the middle ground? Neither do I.

Yep, but such is the game we play on. 8)

The middle ground is that there will be rewards and gear dropped. The deciding factor is is it worse than, comparable to, or better than what is available now.

Everyone's just so fixated on a new way to get old stuff, that a new way to get better stuff is out the window at the moment.

[Xavier]

If it gives Abjs and lolRidills, everyone will be happy regardless

And if it doesn't, people will say it's the shittiest update in ages. Do you see the middle ground? Neither do I.

I won't because I always expect shit from Square, but I don't have a problem speculating why it could be good.

You're assuming that the fights are scaled down to the point where Johnny T. is going to be able to do a shout in Whitegate for 5 people to go kill Fafnir.

The rational thing is to assume the fights are somewhere along the difficulty of actually killing Fafnir/Nid/KB with 6 people, which can be done but by no means is easy. If anything, this kind of move would allow the really good HNM linkshells that don't bot their asses off, the opportunity to get gear they've been trying to for the past 3 years but have been cockblocked from getting.

If they were being cockblocked, then how would they have the skills to perform a task such as defeating Faf/Nid with 6 people? All the strats in the world be shit in they aren't experienced with dealing with his TP moves and such. Unless of course, they're planning their strats based on other LSs, in which case, I can sorta agree with you.

You take Fafnir, KB, etc. They can all be killed by an alliance of people wearing nothing but AF and really shitty gear, so long as they understand the basics of the game, and are given enough time to actually win. An hour is usually generous enough.

You have to assume that there are enough other "AH" upgrades to replace AF with, to somewhat boost the ability of jobs without having even touched a King. You look at a job like BLM, WHM, SMN, etc, basically, any mage job that isn't a rdm or brd, and you'll find King or no King, they're basically geared the same.

Its not a stretch of the imagination to assume that if you were really serious about killing this with 6 people, you could simply go to Aery, and watch how other linkshells win. More than that, when I made the post, I specifically said "it would allow other really good HNM LSes the chance to kill this", implying that I'm not talking about Mr. 30 Seconds at LV 75 WAR/THF in AF1. The kinda people who I think would be capable of this are those who do stuff in Sky / Sea / Dynamis / Limbus, the kind of content thats challenging at first and requires strategy.

Like most people will willingly admit, the hardest part of 3 Kings at this point isn't the fight, but the claim.

[Beckwin]

If they're gonna add the top drops from RoZ to this assault zone, the final ToAU endgame better have some fucking mindblowingly amazing gear. And even though having a Ridill would be nice, I think it should stay on Fafnir; maybe BB items as well. I say that for the sake of job balance- warrior and monk are strong DD classes to begin with and Ridill/BB makes them stand out from the crowd by a fairly large margin. Ridills taking the place of Joyeuse for the average 75 war would really mess things up, unless we see some significant buffing for the other jobs and/or some amazing new gear (like a Bahamut's Zaghnal with a respectable damage rating, for example).

I also hope they make this easily accessible. Everything indicates so far that we should be able to get a tag and just warp out to the staging point and go for it. The Ashu Talif BCs are really fun and have some cool rewards, but kind of a pain in the ass to flag and get to. Salvage entry "fee" is a bit obnoxious (not to mention the rest of salvage being obnoxious). By all means it'd be awesome if they made AU missions required for access, but after that it'd be really nice if it wasn't a hassle to enter. Round up a few friends, pick up your tags, and go.

[Kuya]

This could go in 3 different directions:

Either drops suck but fight is gimped.

Or drops rock but fight is insanely hard, due to time plus limited numbers.

Or A and B.

And, yet, all 3 are still better than watching paint dry in a dragon's nest.

[Xavier]

Right, but do you feel superior to others that don't have what you have, and do you drop such gems as "if they don't spend all their time here camping it, they don't deserve what it drops," or even "those people suck they don't deserve fafnir."

Those are the people that think "WTF ITS TOO EASY NOW THIS IS BS"

The only time I ever used the "if you don't camp it you don't deserve it" argument was when people with a craft at 100 started to use the argument "I spent all my time crafting while you were camping, I'll just use my gil to buy the abj off anyone that will sell."

I totally get what you're saying and I see the difference in how I feel and other people, but maybe its just different if your on Bahamut. Watching one linkshell bot the hell out of Faf/Nid for the past year or so, getting the most ridiculously gimp people gear, has kinda lowered the "awesome" factor of the gear to me by a ton.

[miokomioko]

It's similar to when they made the lv.20 solo avatar fights. All the existing SMNs bitched up a storm, but it really was a smart addition.

Anyways, people say they wholeheartedly doubt that BLU/COR/PUP relic drops here because it doesn't make sense. As stated by the PUP artifact crafter, there is another set of puppetmaster garb that can be made but only her sister knew how to do it, or something. I would not doubt in a second that the mobs/chests in this new 'assault' might drop materials for trading in for new job relic. Shitty drop rates or high numbers needed to craft relic might slow down the process to the realistic crawl of anyone trying to complete an old job relic set.

[Rentwokay]

IF, IF, IF they hold true to their word of no special requirements (hell even some assault points as fee or Imperial standing), and even if you can do it only once every 24/36 hrs.

It is going to require Assault ID tags. Those of you who think otherwise are pointlessly optimistic.

If it didn't require ID tags, they wouldn't refer to it as Assault. The only thing un-Assault-like about it is the fact that you don't get Assault Points upon winning. Nyzul Isle is getting the mysterious sixth desk in the Commissions Office, it already has a Runic Portal, and it hasn't been described as "missions similar to Assault" like the Black Coffin quests.

Here's the other half of why they'd make this a part of Assault...

What's the respawn timer on most HNMs? 24 hours.
What's the respawn rate of ID tags? 24 hours.
Oh crap... Look at that.

If Fafnir and Behemoth really are in these new Assaults (and, judging by the photo, they are in one form or another... if not, I'm going to force Sage Sundi to eat the jaundiced pudding monster in the middle), it would give the new methods of obtaining such incredible items a serious advantage over the older (camping) methods. If you could force pop Fafnir whenever you wanted, Altana knows some linkshells would be there all freakin' day until even their BRDs had Ridills.

I'm still not convinced they'd drop Ridills or Defending Rings at all. Abjurations, maybe, since they've hinted for a long, long, long time about new methods of obtaining them. I feel like, if there's anything Rare/Ex floating around in Nyzul Isle, it's going to be comparable and new, but certainly not identical.

But yes, they're going to make us use ID tags, which is going to force the player base to make decisions (farm AP for Salvage, or farm Nyzul Isle for loot... hmmm), which is going to make the items that either activity procures even rarer and occupy each player's time even more. It's up to you to decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but at least we know we won't be bored anytime soon.

[Sagacious Sundi]

You know what I haven't seen yet (or maybe didn't notice)? No one suggested that this would be a step above HQ kings (progression). Maybe this new behemoth will make you consider the Behemoth low-quality and the King Behemoth NQ. I'd prefer progression over alternative, because with alternatives you either get an item 1 way or the other. I remember someone (was it Wafik? can't recall) saying that they WANT to fight Byakko and whatnot, in regards to the Ashu Talif pants. Not saying alternatives aren't welcome (because they certainly are), just saying I'd prefer progression or choices for different items, rather than choosing whether to get an item (or 2 extremely similar items) X way or Y way.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if this is their way of "changing the 3 kings system", since they seem to be against completely reverting past additions.

[Minions]

Probably will end up dropping blackbelt items, and NQ HNM stuff. Which would be lame since turt/behe drop garbage (well I guess behe drops money items) and you would hope for faffy. Then you get the awsome 2% chance of a HQ spawning and if you chose the wrong setup when you entered the zone you lose. I hope its hard to get gear, I enjoy working for what I get.

[divisortheory]

It is going to require Assault ID tags. Those of you who think otherwise are pointlessly optimistic.

On the contrary, those of you who think you can predict the future are fools. While some people may think that it will or won't require assault tags, we are always careful to state that we think it is the case.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

See I dont know why everyone says the drop rate has to completely suck for it to work (other then the obvious reason that there will be TONS of people spamming this assault over and over and over. The fact is when the ground kings were introduced, they still dropped the same shit, and back then it wasnt all about omg am I going to be able to claim it? It was about will we be able to kill it?

SE shouldnt have to compensate for claim difficulty because it was never intended like that. Did they intend them to be difficult fights? Sure they did, are they somewhat easier now because of all the gear and merits we have stacked up? Sure. But the point is difficulty of obtaining an item ideally (In SE's mind) has nothing to do with the difficulty of the claim, its the ability to kill thats important.

Honestly what I can see happening (Assuming that they will in fact drop ground hnm gear... which is a BIG assumption at this point) is they will have the kings spawn once (maybe 2x/3x) a day MAX in nyzul so they dont have to obliterate the drop rate.... And on top of that if they throw some difficulty to get the coins (Imagine collecting the coins to be a mini-version of getting 99KS for a run) then people wont be spamming it every 5 seconds, there might be 3-4 top lvl nyzul runs a day.

[Ninjiz]

pfft fighting the 3 kings is simple. Winning claim is whats hard...
Most of the fights in the whole game arent hard at all. The reason why everyone isnt pimped out in gear, is because of cock blocking by other people, bots, crap drop rates, and tedious game design... not difficulty and challenge, without putting silly restrictions on you. I think the hardest and most challenging fight i had was CoP 6-4 Ultima/Omega fight, which had a ll cap. The fight was very challenging, a bit frustrating at teh loses, but it was FUN. And it took gil sellers Eons to even be able to get there, because most of teh fighst at first were challenging, SE did nerf the CoP mission BCs a few times, but i was unlucky enough to be one of the people who did them before the nerfs lol .

[Khalil]

This may be a bit off topic, but I'd like to know how long will it take for a decent PT of 6 to kill off Fafnir? My lowest Fafnir would have to be 15. I've never had a 9 man Fafnir once.