Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

[Jeryhn]

I didn't say I wouldn't take your word for it, I just said its not unintuitive to believe MAB affects dark magic short of testing to prove otherwise. However, in light of such tests, then obviously people would know for sure which is the case.

It's more about the principle, than saying you're wrong or that MAB really does affect dark magic.

But that's like saying that you've concluded the world is flat because it doesn't look spherical from your vantage points on both the ground and the air.

The problem with making all-encompassing statements like "MAB effects all magical attacks" is the simple fact that each spell, each ability, each weaponskill has its own independent function for calculating its effects. Like, saying MND effects all white magic spells, when we know it doesn't, look at Silence and Enspells. For INT for all black magic, look at the posts in those links I gave concerning Drain and Aspir. For weaponskills, look at Spirits Within. It deals non-elemental magic damage, MAB certainly isn't in its equation.

When people realize that each spell and ability is its own entity that follows its own rules, maybe people will stop making baseless and retarded claims.

[safer]

jus thought of this while posting on my ls's forums

when i xp with my NPC fellow, i notice she takes a cut of my xp (used to keep her out while fighting bombs on smn, and i wouldnt get full xp when they blew up)... so i wonder if having an npc fellow out would qualify for getting the xp boost since its almost like a party of 2... coupled with the increased acc/eva versus EM and lower mobs... it could make leveling npc alot more easier / rewarding / fun

[Rag]

The Drk spells are interesting, but who cares about Drks?

From Drks to you : http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...20Pics/emo.jpg

[Jeryhn]

when i xp with my NPC fellow, i notice she takes a cut of my xp (used to keep her out while fighting bombs on smn, and i wouldnt get full xp when they blew up)... so i wonder if having an npc fellow out would qualify for getting the xp boost since its almost like a party of 2... coupled with the increased acc/eva versus EM and lower mobs... it could make leveling npc alot more easier / rewarding / fun

I'm not sure, but I don't think you experience a decrease in EXP when someone else summons an NPC when they're in your party. Example: You and Joeblow are in a party, he summons NPC. You kill something that gives you 100 EXP, he gets 70.

This means while while summoning NPCs will place a limit on how many party members you can have in your party, they do not count as actual party members, so you won't get the EXP bonus from Signet.

[MF Perm]

When people realize that each spell and ability is its own entity that follows its own rules, maybe people will stop making baseless and retarded claims.

This game is a rubix cube of those. Everytime you think you've got it right some asshole with a calculator and a degree in graphic design shakes things up a bit with some algrebra 1/2.

[Kirschy]

This thread is already like 10 pages, I skimmed through it, so sorry in advance if I missed anything. These are my thoughts as someone who plays endgame DRK a lot, and primarily in merits.

Dread Spikes sounds promising. I'm thinking about it in terms of damage mitigation during merit parties. It could make /war a much more viable sub. (Which has a ton more offensive traits than /nin.) I think even in worst case scenario the spikes will absorb 10% of the damage taken... But I'm realli hoping it's going to be around 20-25% absorb... being able to take 25% damage during the few hits I take before the mob dies is a welcome change. On the recast side of this. I usualli merit in 19% haste from gear. 15% from Spell and 11% from March. So I'm looking at around 45% reduction in recast. 1:00 duration with a 1:40 recast time. Again it looks promising... But I wouldn't be suprised if the spikes are weak enough to be only marginalli useful in solo/farming :/. (Side note, aren't spike spells based on enhancing? I wonder if Dread Spikes will be based on Dark Magic skill?)

As for Drain II... I don't see it as anything more than an extra Drain spell and a pre-cursor to SE Kraken. I have capped Dark Magic skill merits and pretti much the best dark magic skill+ eq in the game, and I still have trouble landing Drain on some endgame stuff. Gives DRKs a reason to merit Dark Seal though. Unless it's potency is substantialli greater, I'm not so crazy about this one for situations other than SE Kraken.

As for MAB affecting drain... I'm fairly certian it doesn't. My BLM friend and I were playing on Mount Z /w pudding, and our drains were pretti much the same. If 4 Levels of Magic Attack Bonus, Moldavite, Novio, and weskit aren't making a visual difference, I'm not gonna worry about it.

Overall I'm kinda excited about the update. It looks like a minor upgrade that would make DRK more useful in XP situations. I'm also kinda excited at the prospect of my Dark Magic Skill merits/setup being more useful. Although I'll still say I want that Scythe boost they promised :/.

[laverna]

[quote=MF Perm]

Ok then I made a bad assumption that it effects ANY magic damage. But I knew it wasn't restricted to just Elemental.

"Dummy" lol then a proper apology would be nice.

Apologize for you still being wrong?[/quote:fd791]

Nope its for the "Dummy" as we both were wrong. Unless we are both Dummies, then I guess I can deal with that.

[MF Perm]

[quote=laverna]

Ok then I made a bad assumption that it effects ANY magic damage. But I knew it wasn't restricted to just Elemental.

"Dummy" lol then a proper apology would be nice.

Apologize for you still being wrong?

Nope its for the "Dummy" as we both were wrong. Unless we are both Dummies, then I guess I can deal with that.[/quote:6bebb]

Since you have my admission of being wrong quoted I would think this last post by you wouldn't need to be made but ok.

[Jeryhn]

The internet is serious business, and getting the last word in a forum argument awards you with cool points (CP).

[Cylo]

Dread Spikes sounds promising. I'm thinking about it in terms of damage mitigation during merit parties. It could make /war a much more viable sub. (Which has a ton more offensive traits than /nin.) I think even in worst case scenario the spikes will absorb 10% of the damage taken... But I'm realli hoping it's going to be around 20-25% absorb... being able to take 25% damage during the few hits I take before the mob dies is a welcome change.

I don't know if this is wishful thinking on your part or what, but other "spikes" don't work like that, so I don't assume Dread spikes would be a percentage. I would assume that a full-strength Dread Spikes will probably only drain a flat 9-15hp/proc. on anything that isn't undead. Also, I think it will be enhancing magic.



EDIT - woops, yeah the text says it will be a percentage of damage taken, sleepy today sorry.

[Khamsin]

But that's like saying that you've concluded the world is flat because it doesn't look spherical from your vantage points on both the ground and the air.

The problem with making all-encompassing statements like "MAB effects all magical attacks" is the simple fact that each spell, each ability, each weaponskill has its own independent function for calculating its effects. Like, saying MND effects all white magic spells, when we know it doesn't, look at Silence and Enspells. For INT for all black magic, look at the posts in those links I gave concerning Drain and Aspir. For weaponskills, look at Spirits Within. It deals non-elemental magic damage, MAB certainly isn't in its equation.

When people realize that each spell and ability is its own entity that follows its own rules, maybe people will stop making baseless and retarded claims.

No, its like saying its not unreasonable to believe the world may be flat based on what we can see about the world thus far, until something proves otherwise. And something did prove otherwise.

In case you missed it in my original post:

So if it affects elemental WS, BLU magic, ninjutsu, and elemental nukes, there's no reason to believe it won't affect dark magic. If its been tested and proven, then that's a reason. But short of that, its not counterintuitive or anything to believe it does impact dark magic.

You're making the opposite blanket statement that there are no connections between anything in the game and we can't make any educated guesses about anything. Perhaps its just two different philosophies, but I believe that if there is lack of evidence to show one way or another, its safest to believe something will follow the same pattern as other things like it. Now, it doesn't always end up being true, but its the best you can do with educated guesses until somebody proves it wrong.

Try to think beyond this specific case of MAB and Dark Magic, and consider the scientific process in general.

1) We don't know how something works.
2) Somebody makes a reasonable guess as to how it works based on what we know of other things
3) It gets proven wrong
4) Repeat step 2-3 until it doesn't get proven wrong
5) People believe it for a while
6) It gets proven wrong
7) Go back to step 2

Now go back and read my original point that it wasn't unreasonable or unintuitive to believe MAB affected Dark Magic skill until its disproven, and then we can all realize how pointless and sidetracked this argument really is.

[BRP]

[quote=MF Perm][quote=laverna]

Ok then I made a bad assumption that it effects ANY magic damage. But I knew it wasn't restricted to just Elemental.

"Dummy" lol then a proper apology would be nice.

Apologize for you still being wrong?

Nope its for the "Dummy" as we both were wrong. Unless we are both Dummies, then I guess I can deal with that.[/quote:d41ed]

Since you have my admission of being wrong quoted I would think this last post by you wouldn't need to be made but ok.[/quote:d41ed]

I don't know what exactly is going on here, but I think you are both dummies now. Shut up.

I don't know if this is wishful thinking on your part or what, but other "spikes" don't work like that

Actually, if you mean percentage, I think one set of spikes do: the PLD Corsair roll.

[Kirschy]

Dread Spikes sounds promising. I'm thinking about it in terms of damage mitigation during merit parties. It could make /war a much more viable sub. (Which has a ton more offensive traits than /nin.) I think even in worst case scenario the spikes will absorb 10% of the damage taken... But I'm realli hoping it's going to be around 20-25% absorb... being able to take 25% damage during the few hits I take before the mob dies is a welcome change.

I don't know if this is wishful thinking on your part or what, but other "spikes" don't work like that, so I don't assume Dread spikes would be a percentage. I would assume that a full-strength Dread Spikes will probably only drain a flat 9-15hp/proc. on anything that isn't undead. Also, I think it will be enhancing magic.

I'm basing it off what POL said on the update:

"While Dread Spikes is in effect, the dark knight will drain an amount of HP from an enemy corresponding to the amount of damage inflicted by each of the enemy's attacks"

[Lordender]

no one cares about us drk's until its time to kraken someones DL or AV.

[MF Perm]

The internet is serious business, and getting the last word in a forum argument awards you with cool points (CP).

Every thread on this forum would be 63% shorter if it weren't for that.


I spent my CP on fake sunglasses that shoot water and a zebra print slap bracelet.

[fantasticdan]

MaB definitly doesn't affect drain/aspir. MaB doesn't work for the blu equivilants either; blood saber, digest, or MP drainkiss.

[Ixidor]

Still surprised no one is mentioning how much magical damage a DRK could do with Drain I and Drain II(which apparently will heal a LOT of HP).

If the average of Dr2 is 600+, DRK will be AMAZING.

I was thinking more along the lines of...

ZOMG DRK MAB!!111! GIVE TEHM A NOVIO!

now that's sufficient use of the caps lock key and I appologize.

MAB helps Elemental magic not dark magic. Drain 2 is most likely Dark magic as Drain is Dark Magic.

Sarcasm!

[MF Perm]

[quote=BRP][quote=MF Perm]

Ok then I made a bad assumption that it effects ANY magic damage. But I knew it wasn't restricted to just Elemental.

"Dummy" lol then a proper apology would be nice.

Apologize for you still being wrong?

Nope its for the "Dummy" as we both were wrong. Unless we are both Dummies, then I guess I can deal with that.

Since you have my admission of being wrong quoted I would think this last post by you wouldn't need to be made but ok.[/quote:323e5]

I don't know what exactly is going on here, but I think you are both dummies now. Shut up.

I don't know if this is wishful thinking on your part or what, but other "spikes" don't work like that

Actually, if you mean percentage, I think one set of spikes do: the PLD Corsair roll.[/quote:323e5]

If it weren't for people like you nitpicking in everyones side drama we would have won Iraq by now and abortion would be abolished.

THANKS FOR YOUR OPINION, IT MATTERS.

[miokomioko]

Drain damage is too random, its hard to prove anything but i have gotten up to 400 drains on mamool ja and i have never seen any 500-600 drains outside of MB.

I think it doesnt affect it cos drain doesnt deal damage directly, it drains the HP, it even apears as blue text in the log like cures not white like damage.

i think that with the update, the drain II's will show in the log because you *shouldnt* be able to drainII for 0 (assuming no magic shield), and the full amount past standard HP will go into a max hp buff icon, with the damage/hp converted shown in the log

Is this going to be a reason to make Darkness SC on HNMs to preceed Souleater-Kraken? :(

[Tajin]

having an npc fellow out would qualify for getting the xp boost? just me and my fellow

they do not count as actual party members, so you won't get the EXP bonus from Signet.

Fixed