Battle System Adjustments (03/05/2007)

[fantasticdan]

lol crits definately happen, crit modifiers just act as a crit%+ based on TP instead of increasing fTP based on TP or increasing the duration of silence (lmao). I have seen numbers that were frankly impossible without crits.

I would have to see proof of that before I beleive it, I've tested viper bite (1hit no crit mod) with unlocked heart snatcher on rdm/thf about 60-70 times on the rabbits outside of sandoria to test this out a long time ago, and never gotten a critical VB without SA. Melee critical hit rate against them was about 25%, which I assume is the cap.

[laverna]

lol@new DRK spells. I mean, they're good for solo but 3m recast means it's just not reliable. The spikes might be good for DRK/WAR... but it's probably only 5-10 :/

oh well

As said by SE, (read if you forget). Drain2 Is to boost Souleater. Merited Souleater is 5mins. Drain 2 is 3mins. I think it wil do what it is meant to do.

How does that help DRK's weaknesses? Souleater was always powerful enough, it just could only be up 1/6-1/5 of the time and had a major downside. Remember, I'm that guy who thinks DRK is more than a KClub wielder.

Souleater is nice when you don't have bitchy and retarded healers.

as if mages don't have enough responsabilities and task during a fight as it is already.


It helps increaseing our Damage and when Souleater is done it will give the ability to self heal. With haste gear it will be ready soon after Souleater is finished.
(I hate drks and pretty much all non-shadow using melee)

Go fuck yourself you melee gimper <3

I just think with the type of gear he has for a drk (which is above average) that he's parsing NQ joe's is an invalid parse try parsing with players who have the same quality of gear as him.

That WAR is pretty well geared, not perfect but definitely above average. I don't know exactly how the DRK is geared, most DRK could stand to have some improvements. I bet you he doesn't have ace's helm I'm guessing he's not the best DRK in the world. The best geared DRKs are too stuck on WAR to bother play DRK.

Bullshit. 2 darks with souleater up for 1 minute out of every 5, who arent missing most of their attacks, will drain any healers MP. If you are DRK/SAM more often than not your "protection" wont last more than 1/4 of that time, if that, and DRK/NIN will spend half of SE trying to cast Utsusemi.

Personally when I have a Dark Sponge in a merit party who likes to leave on SE, I just let their HP get low enough that they dont lose so much in the add effect, and cure them after it wears. Spam curing to keep them high throughout SE is an absolute MP killer, and I have a 1.1k convert setup.

Tell your DRKs to use Scythe, not dual wield. Dual wield really makes souleater eat too much, scythe delay makes a nice balance between power and safety. Not to mention the fact that if you actually kept the DRK's HP up the mobs would die really fucking fast, before they took a lot of hits.

[Beckwin]

I'm pretty damn sure Guillo can crit. I haven't done any serious testing, but I do watch my tp returns in xp and variations in WS damage have to come from something other than DA.

[Sho]

I'm pretty damn sure Guillo can crit. I haven't done any serious testing, but I do watch my tp returns in xp and variations in WS damage have to come from something other than DA.

Ehh, why wouldn't a multi-hit WS be able to crit? Even multi-hit BLU spells crit (as well as single hit spells).

[Beckwin]

Sho:

lol tredecim doesn't work in WSes

I don't beleive any crit+% gear would work with guillotine, or any ws you really use on drk for that matter, since none of them have crit modifiers. No?

and

I would have to see proof of that before I beleive it, I've tested viper bite (1hit no crit mod) with unlocked heart snatcher on rdm/thf about 60-70 times on the rabbits outside of sandoria to test this out a long time ago, and never gotten a critical VB without SA. Melee critical hit rate against them was about 25%, which I assume is the cap.

is what I was responding to.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

lol crits definately happen, crit modifiers just act as a crit%+ based on TP instead of increasing fTP based on TP or increasing the duration of silence (lmao). I have seen numbers that were frankly impossible without crits.

I would have to see proof of that before I beleive it, I've tested viper bite (1hit no crit mod) with unlocked heart snatcher on rdm/thf about 60-70 times on the rabbits outside of sandoria to test this out a long time ago, and never gotten a critical VB without SA. Melee critical hit rate against them was about 25%, which I assume is the cap.

Well I at least know Guillotine and Cross Reaper can crit. Not going to bother show proof because, frankly, I don't need to convince anybody of this. You can also ask MNKs if destroyers help WSes.

In any case, I think you guys are starting to get my point that tredecim isn't all that. It's no destroyers.

[Beckwin]

It's no destroyers for sure, but it's still the best merit scythe for DRK. WS difference between Tred and Ori would be really minimal, but a 15% crit rate vs. a 7-8% crit rate is fairly substantial.

[NynJa]

lol crits definately happen, crit modifiers just act as a crit%+ based on TP instead of increasing fTP based on TP or increasing the duration of silence (lmao). I have seen numbers that were frankly impossible without crits.

I would have to see proof of that before I beleive it, I've tested viper bite (1hit no crit mod) with unlocked heart snatcher on rdm/thf about 60-70 times on the rabbits outside of sandoria to test this out a long time ago, and never gotten a critical VB without SA. Melee critical hit rate against them was about 25%, which I assume is the cap.

This has become a hot topic as of late.

I know for a fact, from my variance in WS damage from farming TW mobs that WS's can crit. I usually use DE or Evis, and the variance is astounding, even on DE (TP = acc).

Now, looking at a generic WS formula, we know that the first hit of a WS is calculated DIFFERENTLY from the other hits of a WS. Right ? Now, you say you tested out Viper Bite and never got any critical hits. Whats to say that the first hit of a WS can not crit unless its TP mod states that it has a chance to critical, but any subsequent hits in a WS may very well crit ??

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Repeat after me:

It doesn't increase your overall crit rate by that because it doesn't effect WSes. Parsing is not infallible.

[Beckwin]

I. See. That.

It's still a fairly substantial increase in damage, and I'll argue that it's more of one than 2 DMG and 2 acc. You don't depend on crits for Guillo to do good damage anyway- you're more concerned with getting all your hits to land (plz don't bring up the +2 acc) and having healthy str/attack for more damage. Tred and O should average roughly the same on Guillo, but Tred will beat O on regular melee damage.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Actually my point is that it's not a huge difference in general and isn't comparable to normal crit+ weapons. Hell, if you love the hp drain for some reason death scythe would do about the same.

[Beckwin]

Referring to the parse I posted earlier:

15% crit rate yielded 108 critical hits.

8% would've yielded 57 criticals.

51 fewer criticals. Let's assume normal hit = 100 dmg, crit = 150 (conservative numbers). Tred gets an advantage of 2550 damage. Another set of assumptions (perhaps more realistic): normal hit 115, crit 185. 3570 more for Tred. Now to apply that to total melee damage: 92531-93551 compared to 96101. Tred is looking roughly like a 2.5-4% increase in melee damage based on this. Relating that to overall damage, you have around a 1-2 percent increase.

I know the above is hardly precise and only looking at one parse, but I think its some fair ballpark estimating. Tred is no Ridill or Destroyers or Senji or Maneater or even Subduer, but in comparison to the other options its kinda worth getting excited over. However I will admit that working through my example/estimations does dull Tred a bit for me.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

However I will admit that working through my example/estimations does dull Tred a bit for me.

Yeah, at first it sounded so great to me too. I wasn't always so lukewarm on it It just sounds a lot better on paper. At first I was hoping for a consistent double crit DRK/THF powered cross reaper. That would have been so damned sexy

[Sylvrdragon]

I'm pretty sure the add effect isn't based on current HP, it is based on Max HP. The amount of damage you add to each hit doesn't change as your HP gets lower. (can someone confirm?)

It's current HP, souleater can't kill you. That's the 2nd reason the drks get curebombed, less HP = less dmg done.

Ah, thank you Wafik. I stand corrected. The point still stands that a full duration Souleater in meripo is not only possible, but IMO, a good idea, so long as the DRK knows what they're doing.