Should I be running windower?

[Umbra]

Just downloaded processguard, but I can't figure out how to block specific apps from reading specific processes. Can anyone help me out? :\

[Stanislaw]

I still think it can see the name launcher.exe in the scan though, to be safe I renamed mine to something that SE wouldn't see as Windower.

Method? I would like to do that just to be safe as well.

[Seditedi]

Just rename the file lol.

[divisortheory]

Seriously, it's probably using this for statistical puproses only. They've said they are considering adding a Windower to FFXI, they probably want to see how many people actually use Windower just so they tell management "yea, 400,000 people are going to use this. we should do it"

[Furtwangler]

Someone should sue them, I wanna see lawsuits XD

[Charitwo]

Just rename the file lol.

I don't recommend this.

[Liquidedust]

Something that kinda follows up on this issue

Original thread:
http://www.windower.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9207

Poster also posted on Alla (yeah I know lolAlla but still more information there)
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 8719219803

Plus I confirmed it myself when I did a check on what POL actually were up to, and it is scanning all my running processes when I fire it up.

And as the OP in these threads clearly points out, there is nothing in S-E's User Agreement or ToS that allows them to legally do this without breaking privacy and integrety laws. While they reserve the right to change the ToS and User Agreement at any time (which is legal) tthey havn't done it BEFORE they started to do this.

Or rather to put it like this.

They currently without my consent, or informing me about this, scan what I am doing every time I start up POL.

This is an unlawful and illegal act in US, Canada as well in all countries of EU last time I checked. Also it is something that by the letter of the law is considered very serious. (not just serious, very in this case, since the data itself is collected in one country and compiled in another which without consent breaks basically every privacy and integrety law that exists about personal information and data).

And no this isn't about windower and third-party applications per se (just by proxy), it goes beyond that. S-E basically has screwed themselves over backwards way bad by implementing this the way they did.

[Khamsin]

Just rename the file lol.

I'll call it "FFXIApp" or "Mrargus" or "fleetool" or something instead.

[skurlover]

Something that kinda follows up on this issue

Original thread:
http://www.windower.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9207

Poster also posted on Alla (yeah I know lolAlla but still more information there)
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 8719219803

Plus I confirmed it myself when I did a check on what POL actually were up to, and it is scanning all my running processes when I fire it up.

And as the OP in these threads clearly points out, there is nothing in S-E's User Agreement or ToS that allows them to legally do this without breaking privacy and integrety laws. While they reserve the right to change the ToS and User Agreement at any time (which is legal) tthey havn't done it BEFORE they started to do this.

Or rather to put it like this.

They currently without my consent, or informing me about this, scan what I am doing every time I start up POL.

This is an unlawful and illegal act in US, Canada as well in all countries of EU last time I checked. Also it is something that by the letter of the law is considered very serious. (not just serious, very in this case, since the data itself is collected in one country and compiled in another which without consent breaks basically every privacy and integrety law that exists about personal information and data).

And no this isn't about windower and third-party applications per se (just by proxy), it goes beyond that. S-E basically has screwed themselves over backwards way bad by implementing this the way they did.

Since everyone on these forums seems to be an expert in the field of 1. international law and 2. privacy laws, do you think a company as big as Square-Enix doesn't bring everything they want to implement in front of their lawyers?

Come on guys, get serious...

[Fhqwghads]

I'm not going to pretend to know the legalities involved, but I highly suspect it is NOT illegal for SE to scan processes on your machine. The only case I can think of where a lawsuit was won in court with regards to anything remotely related was with the BMG suit where music CD's carried an additional payload that would install on a PC if played on one. The software installed would block the ability for someone to copy songs off of CDs, or something to that effect, as well as send listener statistics, all without any consent or knowledge by the consumer. It gained a lot of visibility in the news because of a flaw in the software which when exploited gave a hacker complete control of the PC. This, however, is radically different from knowingly installing software on your PC. Your legal rights only extend to damage caused by software afaik. Having your processes scanned hardly qualifies as damaging.

Info on BMG lawsuit:
http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/

[Senoska]

Something that kinda follows up on this issue

Original thread:
http://www.windower.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9207

Poster also posted on Alla (yeah I know lolAlla but still more information there)
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 8719219803

Plus I confirmed it myself when I did a check on what POL actually were up to, and it is scanning all my running processes when I fire it up.

And as the OP in these threads clearly points out, there is nothing in S-E's User Agreement or ToS that allows them to legally do this without breaking privacy and integrety laws. While they reserve the right to change the ToS and User Agreement at any time (which is legal) tthey havn't done it BEFORE they started to do this.

Or rather to put it like this.

They currently without my consent, or informing me about this, scan what I am doing every time I start up POL.

This is an unlawful and illegal act in US, Canada as well in all countries of EU last time I checked. Also it is something that by the letter of the law is considered very serious. (not just serious, very in this case, since the data itself is collected in one country and compiled in another which without consent breaks basically every privacy and integrety law that exists about personal information and data).

And no this isn't about windower and third-party applications per se (just by proxy), it goes beyond that. S-E basically has screwed themselves over backwards way bad by implementing this the way they did.

Since everyone on these forums seems to be an expert in the field of 1. international law and 2. privacy laws, do you think a company as big as Square-Enix doesn't bring everything they want to implement in front of their lawyers?

Come on guys, get serious...

I was going to post and as you if your mother dropped you on your head when you were a baby, but from reading your post it seems more likely she threw you on your head.

[SephYuyX]

Rootkit =/= A process scan that probably only looks for 3rd party tools.

[Jeryhn]

Why bother renaming? So what if pol.exe scans launcher.exe?

If SE scans these computers and compiles the data, they'll either:
1) See that its Windower, and not ban them because like 90% of their PC players are using it.
2) They'll see 90% of PC players have something called "launcher.exe", and think its an irrelevant and common program found on most PCs.

Either way, SE isn't gonna ban Windower users, unless you do something fucking retarded ingame mentioned in every previous "o noz my windower" thread.

[Liquidedust]

Something that kinda follows up on this issue

Original thread:
http://www.windower.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9207

Poster also posted on Alla (yeah I know lolAlla but still more information there)
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?f ... 8719219803

Plus I confirmed it myself when I did a check on what POL actually were up to, and it is scanning all my running processes when I fire it up.

And as the OP in these threads clearly points out, there is nothing in S-E's User Agreement or ToS that allows them to legally do this without breaking privacy and integrety laws. While they reserve the right to change the ToS and User Agreement at any time (which is legal) tthey havn't done it BEFORE they started to do this.

Or rather to put it like this.

They currently without my consent, or informing me about this, scan what I am doing every time I start up POL.

This is an unlawful and illegal act in US, Canada as well in all countries of EU last time I checked. Also it is something that by the letter of the law is considered very serious. (not just serious, very in this case, since the data itself is collected in one country and compiled in another which without consent breaks basically every privacy and integrety law that exists about personal information and data).

And no this isn't about windower and third-party applications per se (just by proxy), it goes beyond that. S-E basically has screwed themselves over backwards way bad by implementing this the way they did.

Since everyone on these forums seems to be an expert in the field of 1. international law and 2. privacy laws, do you think a company as big as Square-Enix doesn't bring everything they want to implement in front of their lawyers?

Come on guys, get serious...

he he, actually I did law in College (about 5 years worth of it to get full points for my education *sigh*).

While I my speciality weren't privacy and integrety laws (I focused on copyright and licensing laws) I do know enough about it to actually notice something that is so horribly bent backwards wrong it is impossible to hide it.

And yeah, some programmer probably had to dé la grande ideá to implement this to catch cheaters so to speak. They just kinda forgot to check with the legal department if/how they could do it legally.

The issue though, they could have done this legally.

• Would have maybe taken a lawyer about 1-2 hours to word it. (So it doesn't backfire on them)
  Then like 1 minute of cut&paste into the User Agreement and ToS. (So the document itself actually is updated)
  Then post a message about it in POL and on their website what had happened/been updated. (So people are legally informed)

Instead they did it the wrong way, and as POL currently functions they do break privacy and integrety laws (even double checked US/California law to be certain so I don't talk crap since the ToS states it is there cases will be settled).

So yeah, basically every user of FFXI can go togather and file a Lawsuit against them for breaking privacy laws (and well breaking 500,000 peoples privacy and integrety at the same time is kinda seen as something bad last time I checked)

[Shadida]

Who is going to start a class action lawsuit after an update like this??

[Fhqwghads]

Who is going to start a class action lawsuit after an update like this??

Depends on how much money I can make for participating in one. Early retirement > FFXI. 8)

[Senoska]

Who is going to start a class action lawsuit after an update like this??

Im calling it right now next massban there will be someone who has enough money to support a large class action lawsuit against SE and will do it, and their case will be "They banned me by scanning my processes without me agreeing to it." and they will win and make several million dollars and retire early.

[skurlover]

Who is going to start a class action lawsuit after an update like this??

Im calling it right now next massban there will be someone who has enough money to support a large class action lawsuit against SE and will do it, and their case will be "They banned me by scanning my processes" and they will win and make several million dollars an retire early.

And I'm calling you an idiot.

[Liquidedust]

I'm not going to pretend to know the legalities involved, but I highly suspect it is NOT illegal for SE to scan processes on your machine. The only case I can think of where a lawsuit was won in court with regards to anything remotely related was with the BMG suit where music CD's carried an additional payload that would install on a PC if played on one. The software installed would block the ability for someone to copy songs off of CDs, or something to that effect, as well as send listener statistics, all without any consent or knowledge by the consumer. It gained a lot of visibility in the news because of a flaw in the software which when exploited gave a hacker complete control of the PC. This, however, is radically different from knowingly installing software on your PC. Your legal rights only extend to damage caused by software afaik. Having your processes scanned hardly qualifies as damaging.

Info on BMG lawsuit:
http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/

It isn't illegal to scan resources if you explicitly informs the end-user about via a contract or agreement so yes you are correct. It is illegal to do it without informing the end-user about it in advance however.

The BMG Lawsuit settlement, if you remember, did end with Sony having to replace all their disks sold and not produce any new ones with the root-kit on them before certain measures were taken (see just below).

Remove all security holes that allowed third-party to gain access to the information gathered by the root-kit.

Inform the public that you're actually running the process before you use the product. (actually the current precedent we have for these types of agreements today so it were a good thing you cited it).

[Khamsin]

Why bother renaming? So what if pol.exe scans launcher.exe?

If SE scans these computers and compiles the data, they'll either:
1) See that its Windower, and not ban them because like 90% of their PC players are using it.
2) They'll see 90% of PC players have something called "launcher.exe", and think its an irrelevant and common program found on most PCs.

Either way, SE isn't gonna ban Windower users, unless you do something fucking retarded ingame mentioned in every previous "o noz my windower" thread.

It is pretty funny when threads pop up and someone says:

BannedGuy: "they banned me for using windower!!!"

AstutePoster: "Weren't you the guy that was screenshotted in a tree in Aery a month ago?"

StupidityDefender: "STFU you don't know anything! It doesn't matter even if he flew through the air and botclaimed so fast he claimed yesterday's fafnir. He was banned for windower!"

BannedGuy: "stfu about that, no one cares, it doesn't matter. The guy on the phone told me I was banned for using windower"