Should I be running windower?

[Senoska]

Not to make everyone feel uncomfortable, but what pol.exe is doing is getting a snapshot of all your open processes, seeing you have launcher.exe open, and then opening a handle so it can generate a hash of the program's entry point, which they then use to tell whether it's really Windower's launcher, or just another launcher.exe.

In english?

Are you really running the Windower (which Taj says they don't care about) or some other 3rd party tool (which they will care about). Generating a hash of how your processes hook in to FFXI will let them compare it to apps they don't mind (you're OK) vs. ones that get you a private meeting with Rocco and the Banstick.

At least that's how I read it from my "I know just enough to be dangerous" level of programming knowledge. Whiz kids please correct me if it's way off.

This is what I understood as well ~.~ Taj I hate to make you repeat yourself but I still don't understand how you can say "They don't care about windower" and whatnot. Wiccaan[windower dev] I think was somewhat taken back at the fact they are scanning processes [I think it came out of the blue for him]

http://www.windower.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9191

Not to metion you don't know what they are doing with this, they very well could be rearing up a full scale attack on windower users. Likly? No, but were is your proof to back up your claim that windower is "unread-able"

[Melena]

Who is going to start a class action lawsuit after an update like this??

Im calling it right now next massban there will be someone who has enough money to support a large class action lawsuit against SE and will do it, and their case will be "They banned me by scanning my processes" and they will win and make several million dollars an retire early.

And I'm calling you an idiot.

Considering you're the dumb fuck who thinks its okay for them to scan my processes without notifying me, I think you can carry your sorry ass back to were you came from.

How long you want to carry on this little game of name-calling?

actually, wern't you the one who started said name calling?

[filipo]

im not as computer articulate as taj but if they did change pol.exe to scan your processes wouldnt a firewall program detect the change to the exe and ask whether to allow or block the program? i know mine didnt, dunno whether its because its crap or if this scanning process was already implemented before this update......or maybe im talking crap?

[Senoska]

im not as computer articulate as taj but if they did change pol.exe to scan your processes wouldnt a firewall program detect the change to the exe and ask whether to allow or block the program? i know mine didnt, dunno whether its because its crap or if this scanning process was already implemented before this update......or maybe im talking crap?

Last page:
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/83/blockwl4.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4690/polzi9.jpg

[izembo]

scanning running programs is worthless, why should you give a shit? they can see what you're running, big deal. if they were stealing CC #'s and shit then complain all you want, but just stop bitching, dont like it dont play.

[Senoska]

scanning running programs is worthless, why should you give a shit? they can see what you're running, big deal. if they were stealing CC #'s and shit then complain all you want, but just stop bitching, dont like it dont play.

Welcome to the ranks of stupid. It's illegal.

[Delekii]

scanning running programs is worthless, why should you give a shit? they can see what you're running, big deal. if they were stealing CC #'s and shit then complain all you want, but just stop bitching, dont like it dont play.

Welcome to the ranks of stupid. It's illegal.

What are you running that you don't want people to see?

SE has already stated that they are looking into introducing a legitimate version of Windower, so clearly they are not going to be banning people who are using it currently.

I say if it helps them to know just how many people are using it, by all means go ahead.

There are really only two options as to why you would give a shit about them scanning your processes:

1. Some sort of moral high ground with no basis in actually protecting anything.

2. You are doing something that you don't want them to know about.


J-walking is illegal, but you wont see me walking 200 meters down the road to the traffic lights any time soon. People are so starry eyed about protecting their rights, they are willing to chew off their nose to spite their face.

[Miji]

What are you running that you don't want people to see?

SE has already stated that they are looking into introducing a legitimate version of Windower, so clearly they are not going to be banning people who are using it currently.

I say if it helps them to know just how many people are using it, by all means go ahead.

There are really only two options as to why you would give a shit about them scanning your processes:

1. Some sort of moral high ground with no basis in actually protecting anything.

2. You are doing something that you don't want them to know about.


J-walking is illegal, but you wont see me walking 200 meters down the road to the traffic lights any time soon. People are so starry eyed about protecting their rights, they are willing to chew off their nose to spite their face.

This is a joke, right?

[Delekii]

What are you running that you don't want people to see?

SE has already stated that they are looking into introducing a legitimate version of Windower, so clearly they are not going to be banning people who are using it currently.

I say if it helps them to know just how many people are using it, by all means go ahead.

There are really only two options as to why you would give a shit about them scanning your processes:

1. Some sort of moral high ground with no basis in actually protecting anything.

2. You are doing something that you don't want them to know about.


J-walking is illegal, but you wont see me walking 200 meters down the road to the traffic lights any time soon. People are so starry eyed about protecting their rights, they are willing to chew off their nose to spite their face.

This is a joke, right?

No. Like I said, I dont give a crap if they scan my processes, and if it helps to introduce a legitimate Windower, I'll even do it for them.

[Ddong]

I think this dude is scared of getting banned from using FFXIapp or something.

[LinktheDeme]

What are you running that you don't want people to see?

SE has already stated that they are looking into introducing a legitimate version of Windower, so clearly they are not going to be banning people who are using it currently.

I say if it helps them to know just how many people are using it, by all means go ahead.

There are really only two options as to why you would give a shit about them scanning your processes:

1. Some sort of moral high ground with no basis in actually protecting anything.

2. You are doing something that you don't want them to know about.


J-walking is illegal, but you wont see me walking 200 meters down the road to the traffic lights any time soon. People are so starry eyed about protecting their rights, they are willing to chew off their nose to spite their face.

This is a joke, right?

No. Like I said, I dont give a crap if they scan my processes, and if it helps to introduce a legitimate Windower, I'll even do it for them.

Jwalking and invasion of privacy are two fucking different issues. What there doing is the equivalent of setting your house up with bugs and cameras and watching your every move. All your doing is complaining about someone shoutting profanity that would be the equivalent to jwalking. Stop being retarded

[Delekii]

Jwalking and invasion of privacy are two fucking different issues. What there doing is the equivalent of setting your house up with bugs and cameras and watching your every move. All your doing is complaining about someone shoutting profanity that would be the equivalent to jwalking. Stop being retarded

Bugging your house and scanning your computer processes for the sake of stopping cheaters in a video game are two totally separate issues, the same as jwalking and scanning your processes are two separate issues.

Like I said, people are so caught up in "protecting my privacy" that they fight for the sake of fighting, even when it is beneficial for them.

They arent scanning your PC for how to make a bomb manuals or terrorism 101; they arent even scanning for illegal software that could incriminate you; they are scanning for cheats in a video game. Pick your battles for crying out loud :/

[Koga]

For the record:

POL Clearly states in its TOS that it can make changes to its TOS without notice to anyone. Secondly, I surmise that Taj is corrent and they are looking for the injection point to either:
A) Figure out how to create their own version of Windower
B) Figure out how to change the game so that method of injection no longer works.

In addition, I highly doubt that SE will ban 8000+ Accounts that use windower because the actual number is more aroun 100,000+ that use windower. Also, I highly doubt that SE would use this information to ban people as it does present a possible lawsuit in that the only thing found in the TOS stated in POL about collecting data is the following:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...chstix/ToS.jpg


Most of the people that are freaking out at this point in time are the ones that either did no research on this and are jumping in on this discovery a day late or as the OP stated, are worried about getting banned for using FFXiApp/MrArgus/POS/FleeTool/etc..

[LinktheDeme]

Jwalking and invasion of privacy are two fucking different issues. What there doing is the equivalent of setting your house up with bugs and cameras and watching your every move. All your doing is complaining about someone shoutting profanity that would be the equivalent to jwalking. Stop being retarded

Bugging your house and scanning your computer processes for the sake of stopping cheaters in a video game are two totally separate issues, the same as jwalking and scanning your processes are two separate issues.

Like I said, people are so caught up in "protecting my privacy" that they fight for the sake of fighting, even when it is beneficial for them.

They arent scanning your PC for how to make a bomb manuals or terrorism 101; they are scanning for cheats in a video game. Pick your battles for crying out loud :/

So your saying bugging people because we think they're terrorists is for the greater good? Oh wait we did that and we can't do that anymore, wanna know why? Because its against the fucking law even if its for the greater good. Either you work for SE, or your just retarded

edit: Lemme sum it up for you. YOU CANNOT INVADE ANYONES PRIVACY BY LAW FOR ANY REASON WITHOUT HAVING THE PERSON AGREE TO IT OR A WARRANT. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW EVEN IF ITS TO SAVE HUMANITY FROM AIDS.

[Sagacious Sundi]

They're searching us for Mooninite signs and Lite Brite manuals.

[Delekii]

Jwalking and invasion of privacy are two fucking different issues. What there doing is the equivalent of setting your house up with bugs and cameras and watching your every move. All your doing is complaining about someone shoutting profanity that would be the equivalent to jwalking. Stop being retarded

Bugging your house and scanning your computer processes for the sake of stopping cheaters in a video game are two totally separate issues, the same as jwalking and scanning your processes are two separate issues.

Like I said, people are so caught up in "protecting my privacy" that they fight for the sake of fighting, even when it is beneficial for them.

They arent scanning your PC for how to make a bomb manuals or terrorism 101; they are scanning for cheats in a video game. Pick your battles for crying out loud :/

So your saying bugging people because we think they're terrorists is for the greater good? Oh wait we did that and we can't do that anymore, wanna know why? Because its against the fucking law even if its for the greater good. Either you work for SE, or your just retarded

Did you read my post? I said that scanning for cheats in a video game does NOT equate to bugging suspected terrorists.

[Doombard]

Anyone havea reason why the ambiant lighting isnt working on windower? Bump mapping is off.

[LinktheDeme]

Jwalking and invasion of privacy are two fucking different issues. What there doing is the equivalent of setting your house up with bugs and cameras and watching your every move. All your doing is complaining about someone shoutting profanity that would be the equivalent to jwalking. Stop being retarded

Bugging your house and scanning your computer processes for the sake of stopping cheaters in a video game are two totally separate issues, the same as jwalking and scanning your processes are two separate issues.

Like I said, people are so caught up in "protecting my privacy" that they fight for the sake of fighting, even when it is beneficial for them.

They arent scanning your PC for how to make a bomb manuals or terrorism 101; they are scanning for cheats in a video game. Pick your battles for crying out loud :/

So your saying bugging people because we think they're terrorists is for the greater good? Oh wait we did that and we can't do that anymore, wanna know why? Because its against the fucking law even if its for the greater good. Either you work for SE, or your just retarded

Did you read my post? I said that scanning for cheats in a video game does NOT equate to bugging suspected terrorists.

edit: I edited it for you in a sum up because it obviously whooshed past your 13 year old mind. And i never said suspected terrorists because back then everyone was a godamn suspect for retarded reasons. Kinda like the whole catholicism and protestant witch thing. (I think it was only those religions that did it not trying to depict accuracy just trying to emphasize the random pointing fingers and people getting punished for no reason)

[Miji]

So your saying bugging people because we think they're terrorists is for the greater good? Oh wait we did that and we can't do that anymore, wanna know why? Because its against the fucking law even if its for the greater good. Either you work for SE, or your just retarded

Did you read my post? I said that scanning for cheats in a video game does NOT equate to bugging suspected terrorists.

It's really easy to naively say what you're saying when you don't have to think of the consequences. Tell me, where do you draw the line on invasion of privacy? "For the greater good" isn't very specific now, is it?

[aurik]

edit: Lemme sum it up for you. YOU CANNOT INVADE ANYONES PRIVACY BY LAW FOR ANY REASON WITHOUT HAVING THE PERSON AGREE TO IT OR A WARRANT. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW EVEN IF ITS TO SAVE HUMANITY FROM AIDS.

you agreed to it when you installed the software, and anyway the constitution does not protect you against nongovernmental organizations.

but lol i really doubt they're going to ban 90% of their PC audience.