New Gear Discoveries/Discussion [Perdu topic renamed]

[cassiraa]

How come i see people LOL@ certain people who choose to upgrade certain ones? O_o

Unless the were just referring to club and staff..

Because in many cases the difference is marginal at best.

For Example:
Gungnir is +20 acc and weakens Def,
Mezraq+1 is 6 damage less, but 14 delay faster. and has +3 STR, weakens Evasion.


Yes, Gungnir is better, But lets look at the cost:
Mezraq: About 1.5 mil. Have 20 crafted for a 5% chance of a +1, so 30 mil.
Gungnir: what's a San d'Oria started relic run nowadays? 300 mil?


This is NOT a dis on relics or relic holders, Many of them have put a lot of time and effort into their prizes, But this is why people lol at certain people who do.

[XxSlusherxx]

For PLD you could argue Chainsaw and Heatuclare being more useful outside of exp, and joy/just combo being very merginally worse for exp.

[FinalJustice]

ah, that makes sense

[Jeryhn]

For Example:
Gungnir is +20 acc and weakens Def,
Mezraq+1 is 6 damage less, but 14 delay faster. and has +3 STR, weakens Evasion.


Yes, Gungnir is better, But lets look at the cost:
Mezraq: About 1.5 mil. Have 20 crafted for a 5% chance of a +1, so 30 mil.
Gungnir: what's a San d'Oria started relic run nowadays? 300 mil?

Take a look on what people are willing to pay for only +1 or +2 for a stat. Sniper Ring goes for 600k... Sniper +1 goes for several million (varies per server).

If you go by the HQ markup and apply it to many of the weapons, do you think 300M for Gungnir for +20 accuracy, 6 more damage and relic criticals is justified as opposed to just getting a Mezraq+1? Well... yea.

[XxSlusherxx]

only real good arguents for the jobs that can equip them (i.e. axe being bst not a good argument) are Great Axe and Sword really, and I suppose Great Sword to an extent, but there are gswd main drks out there even at 75.

[Akanei]

For Example:
Gungnir is +20 acc and weakens Def,
Mezraq+1 is 6 damage less, but 14 delay faster. and has +3 STR, weakens Evasion.


Yes, Gungnir is better, But lets look at the cost:
Mezraq: About 1.5 mil. Have 20 crafted for a 5% chance of a +1, so 30 mil.
Gungnir: what's a San d'Oria started relic run nowadays? 300 mil

Percentages is a retarded game to play when it comes to money because they're (ironically) not consistent. The game isn't suddenly gonna be nice and give you an hq on your 20th synth just to keep the percentage.

To point out the example:

Weaken Evasion - Inconsistent on hnms. Proc rate is random, duration is abyssmal.
Acc+20 - Consistent across the board.

100 dmg > 94 dmg & 3 str.

If you're lucky enough to sponsor a run, 30mil could get you damn well close to 4th stage up to half-way through final, unless you're doing pickups, or something that gives you shitty coin yields.

Some people don't want to throw away money on something they know they'll replace. Same reason a lot of people gave up on upgrading relics.

[vagus]

Spharai is Marginally the best h2h in the game
Axe is best Beastmaster Only axe in the game.
Katana is arguably the best in the game.
Polearm a good polearm.
Staff is a Horrible staff in the game.
No ones cares about club.

Relics don't suck...they're just...brutal to obtain on your own.

This edit is by far the best. lol.

[Damane]

Spharai is Marginally the best h2h in the game
Axe is best Beastmaster Only axe in the game.
Katana is arguably the best in the game.
Polearm a good polearm.
Staff is a Horrible staff in the game.
No ones cares about club.

Relics don't suck...they're just...brutal to obtain on your own.

well mages would actually care about relic club and staff if they would have some "mage supporting" stats.... I mean hell Gjallhorn puts brd into nonstop soil voice. Why didnt they add +20% cure potency, an allways workign "Divine Viel" and an additional refresh effect to the fucking relic club. Damm it I could care less for the fucking WS ¬.¬, not like someone with a relic club will ever do a SC in an HNM fight (especially not since one is whm)

make the staff an all intogother "HQ ele staff" with instead of 15% boost 25% boost and an avatar perpetuation cost of -5. make an "Enhance Bloodpacts" for useing astral flow bloodpacts outside of astralflow and a "Additional Elemental magic" to give BLMs with relic staff all elemental -ga IV spells. NOw that would be a big motivation for mages to do the relic staff or club, then again it might be overpowered. But hell a weapon that costs 300 M gil should be overpowered by all means.

Every relic weapon, may it be melee or mage, should give the respectiv job some kind of ability that will expand them further and bring them out of the masses.

[Tajin]

Well, divine veil was added in this patch: (read: long after relics)

http://www.playonline.com/updateus/050224hu5ol4.html


wow, time flies o.O

[Kaylia]

How come i see people LOL@ certain people who choose to upgrade certain ones? O_o

Unless the were just referring to club and staff..

Because in many cases the difference is marginal at best.

For Example:
Gungnir is +20 acc and weakens Def,
Mezraq+1 is 6 damage less, but 14 delay faster. and has +3 STR, weakens Evasion.


Yes, Gungnir is better, But lets look at the cost:
Mezraq: About 1.5 mil. Have 20 crafted for a 5% chance of a +1, so 30 mil.
Gungnir: what's a San d'Oria started relic run nowadays? 300 mil?


This is NOT a dis on relics or relic holders, Many of them have put a lot of time and effort into their prizes, But this is why people lol at certain people who do.

You forget the x3 dmg on relic. However, it's probably cheaper to level mnk, war if you want to merit.

[cassiraa]

You forget the x3 dmg on relic. However, it's probably cheaper to level mnk, war if you want to merit.

My post was neither complete, informative, or well thought out, this has been established. Fortunately in my favor, it was never intended to be any of the preceding.

It was a simple "because the difference isn't worth it in some cases" response to the person who asked why people lol at certain people unlocking certain weapons.

[laverna]

Perdu Sickle
Lv. 73
D 88 Delay 501
Latent effect: D 93

Hiddent latent: ATK +14, ACC +(5 minimum, exact number yet to be determined)

Latent is activated by having less than 100 TP.
___________________________________________

Very cool. Tred has a pretty legit contender now. I saw an attack bonus on Perdu Hanger somewhere too, so I think its safe to assume the same latent applies to all the Perdu weapons (ratk and racc on the bow, maybe).

Apologies if this isn't quite topic-worthy. I can rename to new item discoveries or w/e.

So how does this scythe fair vs Tredecim Scythe on HNM and exp? Does the Hanger Latent activate in off hand?

[Damane]

Well, divine veil was added in this patch: (read: long after relics)

http://www.playonline.com/updateus/050224hu5ol4.html


wow, time flies o.O

I know, why not just ninja edit all relic weapons ¬.¬ with an "occasionally attack 2-4 times"

[Blackice]

To be fair, technically they do already "attack 2-3 times"

[Nagamaki]

Random triple damage doesn't give triple TP, and the rate isn't anywhere remotely similar to "occasionally" weapons.

Giving relics an occasionally trait would be a bit extreme, but a generalized relic weapon buff would be good since the gap between relics and other stuff is just way too slim in some cases, and with virtue stone pouches making them practical, Faith Baghs can outdo anything in a lot of situations.

Gjallarhorn is always the best instrument, Aegis is always the best shield, weapons should always be the best weapon, and by a good margin.

A plus side of this buff for people without relics would be that it'd create some room for better weapons from other sources too. Those JSE weapons are definitely intriguing, but who knows what the hell they'll turn out being for.

[ringthree]

For PLD you could argue Chainsaw and Heatuclare being more useful outside of exp, and joy/just combo being very merginally worse for exp.

I dont know about that the additional effect and random damage multiplier makes the Excalibur pretty impressive, people often forget about those things when they say that the relics aren't that great.

I think the problem a lot of times is that the WS's aren't that great for burn parties, and for some reason, even though we know burn parties aren't really a good indication of a weapon or jobs value, it is the first place we look to measure things.

[Septimus]

For PLD you could argue Chainsaw and Heatuclare being more useful outside of exp, and joy/just combo being very merginally worse for exp.

I dont know about that the additional effect and random damage multiplier makes the Excalibur pretty impressive, people often forget about those things when they say that the relics aren't that great.

I think the problem a lot of times is that the WS's aren't that great for burn parties, and for some reason, even though we know burn parties aren't really a good indication of a weapon or jobs value, it is the first place we look to measure things.

Paladins and Red Mages can equip Joyeuse and Justice Sword. They both have approximately a 50% rate to attack twice. Yeah, the triple damage and additional effect on Excalibur is (hopefully) going to lead to out-damaging the happy-good-time double attack on Joy/Just, but is it a 300+ million gil difference?

In all honesty, even the Vorpal Sword from this update is going to have to be pretty damn amazing to make me put away my Joyeuse or Joyeuse/Justice Sword combo when /NIN... That combo can make a RDM into a little red blur of double attacking fury.

[Corrderio]

If they did make it easier to upgrade relic I wonder how many ppl would bitch if they had a fully upgraded already.... >.>

[Scythiroth]

If they did make it easier to upgrade relic I wonder how many ppl would bitch if they had a fully upgraded already.... >.>

Same amount of people bitching about the Thief's Knife probably?

[Corrderio]

I don't see why a THF would buy that knife for 10M anyway. I don't think that extra boost for TH would be effective enough for me to cough up 10M.