2007 Men's NCAA Tournament Discussion

[BarthelloSylph]

I know there's a pool thread, but I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the tournament bracket and the games...

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I'm a UNC fan so I'll start with my annual whining about our bracket.

According to the committee, we are the second overall #1 seed. My question to them is:

WHY THE F*** do we have the HARDEST BRACKET????

#2 G-Town, #4 Texas... WHAT THE F****? MARQUETTE/MSU as our 8/9 game? JESUS TITTY F****** CHRIST, what a joke.

That being said, I'd love to see UNC-UF.

OK, I'm done. Thoughts?

[Roranora]

Yeah, UNC's run to the Final Four is more rough than any other #1 seed, but if anyone can do it, it's them. A lot of people would have Texas beating them to get into the Elite 8, but let's face it.. sometimes Durant throws up too much bullshit, and I bet Roy Williams can keep him pretty well contained. Georgetown is solid right now, but then again, they well should be as a #2 seed. At least as of lately, the only current #2 you may -want- in your region would be UCLA.. looking like shit their last 2 games. But, in their region, should they and Kansas survive that deep, it'll practically be a home game for UCLA.

I am utterly stunned that Arkansas and Stanford get in over Syracuse and K-State. K-State finishes 4th in the Big 12, 20 wins and 10 conference wins, then embarrasses Texas Tech in the conference tournament. Syracuse 5th place in Big East, and embarrasses Georgetown. Razorbacks go 7-9 in SEC conference. Stanford finished in 6th in the PAC 10. Completely astonsihed....Sorry to Drexel too. Look out next year for K-State, with Michael Beasley (the next Kevin Durant), Billy Walker, and company.

I just wanted to echo this; I'm fucking irate at Stanford and Arkansas. (and Illinois/Texas Tech some too.. but they have better arguments) Arkansas can play like shit all year and just because they make it to the SEC Championship, which, let's also agree it probably wouldn't have happened if Miss St. hadn't pulled off the upset in the previous round, only to get fucking blown out by Florida and throw up nothing but bricks from beyond the arc.. they get an at-large bid. Stanford is 18-12... yes.. 18-12... 108 motherfucking teams won at least 20 games this year and Stanford makes it into a slot of 34 teams with that record... I don't give a shit about 1-2 decent wins with a mediocre winning % overall, and the committee shouldn't either. If so, they should've stayed consistent with it, ie. Florida State. (ACC big wins >>>>> PAC-10 big wins.. no one's going to argue that) Finally, thanks to Big 10 and SEC bias (the Big 12, Colonial, Big East have the biggest room to bitch about this in K-State, Drexel, and Syracuse respectively) from the committee, K-State is the first school to win 20+ games overall, 10+ conference games, and finish fourth or better in their conference.. to NOT get an NCAA bid since the tournament expanded last.

Ohio State, Wisconsin are no-brainers.. Indiana, okay.. but then to take Illinois, Purdue and Michigan State blows my mind. Six teams from the Big 10.. god damn. Big 10 basketball is not Big East/ACC basketball... And then because Bobby Knight (don't get me wrong; he's a badass coach) sets the all-time win record this year combined with the A&M wins, the committee has had their mind set forever. Nevermind the fact K-State blew them away in the Big 12 Tournament, nevermind the fact they finished behind K-State in the conference standings.. nevermind that the selection of the at-large bids this year looks more rigged than Notre Dame football making a BCS bowl. And man, that was worth watching...

fuck..


Edit: Just saw that some of this sorta discussion was in the ACC+lolconference thread... Yes, it's K-State's fault their non-conference schedule was pretty ass (as a K-State student, it pisses me off, especially in football), outside of USC, but it's not their fault the Big 12 setup is what it is. We don't get to face Texas twice in the season, just once.. which was at their place and we won. The committee has publicly voiced how the end of the season, namely the conference tournaments, is going to have a larger effect than earlier in the season. If I'm even going to try to believe they're not just blowing smoke, losses like Nebraska, Oklahoma State hurt K-State a lot more than shit 15 games into the season. Shit, Wichita State was #8 in the nation at around that point; not much is figured out then... other than Tech is in no matter what, apparently.

[edgarfigaro]

Syracuse and KState get what they deserved. KState played a shit schedule, got 9 of their 10 conference wins in the shitty shitty division, beat 1 team from the South division (Tech beat them in the regular season too) and has the gall to complain. That's a nice 225 OoC SOS with losses of 30 to Cal, 24 to New Mexico, and to Colorado State...n word please. Tech played a harder schedule, beat twice as many tournament/bubble teams as KSU, and had to play a game the night before the KSU game in the tournament. Syracuse doesn't leave the state of NY until the conference forces them in Janurary, again gets most of their 10 conference wins against the dregs of the Big East, and has no road victories of any importance and expects to get in? bullshit...I'm not about to listen to people whine about 2 major conference teams that had a chance to upgrade their schedules and refused...fuck them. Stanford played a true round robin, played a good OoC schedule, and destroyed Tech...much more worthy than KSU or Syracuse. Florida State played a great schedule, but this year the bubble was just too thin. Didn't help that they only had two good wins, plus getting swept by GaTech and losing 2/3 to Clemson hurt them as well.

The only team that should be pissed is Drexel...they won 13 ROAD GAMES, including AT Syracuse, AT Creighton, AT Villanova, and they got bumped by an Arkansas team that stunk up the joint until 5 days ago. Bullshit.

On to the seedings. UNC should be happy...Georgetown sucks (Hell, Duke blew them out of the gym), and Texas is wildly overrated. Any team that can only beat St Johns by 1 point is no threat to UNC. The Commitee showed alot of love for the ACC in terms of seedings, and Florida is basically assured of getting to the title game.

EDIT: KSU lost to Ok State 2/27 and Nebraska 2/13..that's pretty recent, plus they had 3 shots at Kansas and didn't win any of them. They had their shots, tough shit for them. Here's their schedule, please tell what what on there makes them a tournament team, because as a neutral observer, I see a super shitty schedule. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teamsched?teamId=2306

[Shadida]

I'm happy Georgia Ttech still got a #10 seed after struggling with Wake Forest. Still, we got UNevada-Las Vegas first and even if we win that, we got Wisconsin next. Probably won't last long...

That being said, I'd love to see UNC-UF.

[Vertabreaker]

I know there's a pool thread, but I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the tournament bracket and the games...

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I'm a UNC fan so I'll start with my annual whining about our bracket.

According to the committee, we are the second overall #1 seed. My question to them is:

WHY THE F*** do we have the HARDEST BRACKET????

#2 G-Town, #4 Texas... WHAT THE F****? MARQUETTE/MSU as our 8/9 game? JESUS TITTY F****** CHRIST, what a joke.

That being said, I'd love to see UNC-UF.

OK, I'm done. Thoughts?

They might have the hardest bracket but it will make the wins all that much more meaningfull. I think UNC will take it all. Roy is calm and collected, he's got the experience and the team responds more to him them I've seen in the past. Once they get rolling, I don't think anyone will put up much of a front.

Go go UNC!!

[BarthelloSylph]

With Hansbrough hurt and not playing well, it really falls on our freshmen to make this run happen. I just don't see it this year. Not with the big games we have to play. Texas? G-town? I'm worried about Marquette/MSU.

[Roranora]

I'm well aware K-State's schedule is extremely weak. You don't have to be a neutral observer to notice that; I'm certainly not neutral when it comes to K-State and even I will admit that. Choosing to play teams that can only hurt you (should we lose), not help you (no kudos for beating Cal for example) is K-State's fault.. I said that earlier. And for the record I hope Huggins helps change that bullshit. But it's not our fault how the Big 12 is set up. It was mentioned that Stanford played a true round robin as if it were the deciding factor. So because some random guy who schedules PAC-10 games is smart and there are only 2 even remotely talented Big 12 North teams, in KU/KSU, it makes Stanford a more tournament-worthy team? We all know Stanford has a college basketball reputation and K-State doesn't.. at least not for the last 25 years, and unwritten shit like that impacts the committee a lot more than people seem to want to discuss.

[edgarfigaro]

The reason why the balanced schedule worked in Stanford's favor is the fact that their losses were good losses to good teams. It also allowed them to have more shots at good teams, and they took advantage by beating Arizona, USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington State. Also, they beat out of conference foes Texas Tech and a huge, huge win @Virginia. Stanford's not the team to complain about, that'd be Arkansas, but even then, both Drexel and Syracuse had much, much bigger beefs than KSU.

Yeah, the unbalanced schedule isn't KSU's fault, but the committee has been harping on the unbalanced schedule issue for awhile. Their stance: teams can no longer prop themselves up on league records and should schedule OoC accordingly. For instance, Duke this year really didn't have to schedule a severely difficult OoC schedule (they did anyways, but that's more a preparation for the NCAAs thing on K's part) because it was known beforehand that their schedule in conference was brutal. Everyone knows how baren the north division is historically in the Big 12, there's really no excuse for KSU not to pursue a more robust OoC schedule. I will grant that the schedule was in place before that piece of shit arrived, and he'll change it, but good intentions for the next years doesn't get KSU in this year.

As for the basketball reputation...look no further than Syracuse, a team who's reputation is higher than Stanford's, getting left out. The committee has been really good about avoiding bullshit like that for sometime now. The last time I can remember when a name school clearly benefited was when UNC and Virigina tied for 3rd in the ACC, and Virginia swept UNC, but UNC got in the tournament and UVA didn't. Even then, Virginia's OoC schedule that year was worse than KSU's this year, so there still was some rationale behind it (and UNC made the committee look good by making the final four as a 8 seed).

Sorry, I know I can talk ears off about college basketball, but eh, it's taught from birth around here (Tobacco Road represent!).

On to the tourney...I really, really don't want to pick UNC or Florida to win it all...and of course, I have the heels beating the gators in my bracket. Bleh. I still say people are overrating UNC's bracket. G'town is NOT THAT GOOD, and Texas is horribly overrated.

EDIT:
Just needed to point out that Stanford's schedule is not made by chance, the Pac-10 plays a true round robin schedule, the last major conference to do so now that the ACC has sold itself out to football. I didn't make that clear enough I think.

[BarthelloSylph]

bttt - first round tomorrow - any thoughts?

[Po]

Yea I'm pumped for it, what upsets do you guys see happening in the 1st round, here are ones I got:
Old Dominion (12) over Butler (5)
GA Tech (10) over UNLV (7)
Virginia Commonwealth (11) over Duke (6)
Gonzaga (10) over Indiana (7)
George Washington (11) over Vanderbilt (6)
Texas Tech (10) over Boston College (7)
Creighton (10) over Nevada (7)

My final four teams are Memphis (2), Georgetown (2), UCLA (2) and Florida (1). And I have Florida winning the championship over Memphis.

My biggest upset on my bracket is possibly Kentucky - 8 beating Kansas (1) in the second round. Kansas always fucking chokes in the big dance, and Kentucky usually comes to play, especially with all the heat on them for having a down year.

Other thoughts?

[BarthelloSylph]

Albany (13) over UVA (4)

Second round: BC over G-town

[octopus]

Is it really an upset when Georgia Tech is actually favored by the Vegas oddsmakers?

[edgarfigaro]

When Kansas becomes the first #1 seed to lose to a #16 seed, remember you heard it here first.

Ok, for my real upset picks. Wright State fulfills Duke's worst nightmare by beating Pitt, and then beats Duke to get to the Sweet Sixteen. Winthrop will probably beat Notre Dame. And Wisconsin better watch out, because Texas A&M CC is a damn good team. Also, Memphis will lose to the Nevada/Creighton winner.

[Po]

Yea I hear your point, but technically if it is a 10 over a 7. I just realized I picked the 10 seed team in all 4 games. I think that will be the case though, I would hate to be a 7 seed, usually it is a good team from a so-so conference, against a so-so team from an excellent conference. And the team in the better conf. is usually better..

[Po]

Ok, for my real upset picks. Wright State fulfills Duke's worst nightmare by beating Pitt

[edgarfigaro]

Ok, for my real upset picks. Wright State fulfills Duke's worst nightmare by beating Pitt

Sorry, but a team built around a slow white guy is a sitting duck in the tournament. The entire Duke team was salivating over the chance to play the only team in America slower than them. Throw in the fact that Wright State is the worst seeded team in the entire tournament (a 14 seed when Butler is a 5 seed when Wright State won the conference and the conference tourney? Ridiculous), and Pitt will pull their normal March routine of going home early.

[Po]

Oh I agree with you. I am from Pittsburgh and have been following them since their rise to prominence in like 2000 with Brandon Knight. Aaron Gray frustrates me more than anyone I have ever watched at Pitt. All he does is fucking miss shots, drop rebounds and turn the ball over. Oh yea, and miss free throws when it matters most.

I have no idea why NBA teams would want him in the first round. I suppose he is big, but please, he is fucking GARBAGE. Look out of next year though, a freshman from the highschool I went to Dejuan Blair is coming who averages like 30 points a game, and should replace Kendall who is the power forward.

Either way, I still see Pitt getting to the round of 16 before they do their customary March bow out early routine. VCU will beat Duke, because if Duke wasn't "Duke" they would even be in this tourney, or the top 25. And then Pitt will beat VCU. Then Pitt will probably get beat by a kajillion by UCLA and their former coach Ben Howland.

[edgarfigaro]

Why does everyone think Duke wouldn't be in it if they weren't Duke? Give Duke's resume to Syracuse, Drexel, Kansas State, whoever, and they'd be in. I know it's not a normal Duke team (only 20 wins instead of the normal 30), but to say they wouldn't be in just makes people look really really informed/moronic. We're talking about a #3 overall SoS, #11 OoC SoS, RPI of 14, and 8-8 in the nation's #1 rated conference with the toughest in conference schedule in said conference (winning % of ACC teams Duke played: .597...Virginia's: .437). No bad losses except the NC State loss..there's really no legitimate argument to leave them out of the field...none, period. But everyone just wants to sound cool and hate Duke...whatever.

I do think the 6 seed was 2 seed lines too high, but then again, Butler got a 5 seed after losing 4 of their last 8. The committee seemed to rely on conference RPI ratings alot this year, explaining the ACC's relatively high seeds, and the inclusion of Arkansas over Syracuse. Virginia getting a 4 seed, now that's just plain wrong.

[Po]

I've always disliked Duke because I've been a UNC fan... and that stupid douche bag who hit Hansborough should be out of the tournament.

They just aren't very good, they've been on ESPN god knows how many times just because of name recognition... they should be an 8 seed at the highest after losing the first round of their tourney.

[BarthelloSylph]

First round games are underway - Davidson gave Maryland a challenge... BC beat TT (and I think they will beat GTown).... Stanford didn't deserve to be in the tourney...

So far so good!