JoL Tanking Rdm style

[ghostfaced]

well next week supposedly i get to take a shot at tanking JoL on my rdm. I'm a taru so my main concern is that i have enough hp to actually take a -ga to the face and my second concern is hate. Now i have some tanking gear got the chainsaw lookin swords was just wondering if anyones tanked this on rdm and what subs i should go for. anyways thanks for the help.... if there is any >_>;;;

[Delekii]

Most spells (ie everything except thundaga3/blizzaga3) will not break your stoneskin with appropriate magic defense gear, as a point of reference..

The only real danger is getting smacked in the face with a bunch of aerial collisions. When I tanked on RDM/BRD, I had a few sets of gear. Full Magic def/magic % down/mnd during casting, full HP/physical damage down/def as soon as you see it summoning, and full haste gear for mazurka, moot point now.

As a RDM, JoL spells are not a big concern.

[ghostfaced]

do you got a ss of your gear perhaps so i have an idea of what i need? ive got an idea but id like to see what you used

[Suiram]

Regarding subs, we used RDM/BRD a few times before the last update. Before Raptor Mazurka we used RDM/WAR, but we were actually talking about this in LS the other day, and it's possible RDM/DRK would actually be better for the same reasons NIN/DRK beats NIN/WAR in general (although to a slightly lesser degree because RDM/WAR has bind and sleep already).

Also I should add that we've never used only RDM tanks, typically PLD+RDM co-tanks, with varying subs.

[darkshines]

Did this a while ago pre-mazurka patch as rdm/brd, though obviously that's not going to work so well now. :s

Drk is probably the best sub to go for.

Gearwise, most of the time I used:

Main/sub: Macu+1/Nms. Shield+1
Ranged: Lamian Kaman
Hat: AF2
Body: Dalmatica
Gloves: AF2
Earrings: Cassie/Eris
Rings: Coral (nq, yay)
Back: Resentment Cape
Waist: Warwolf
Legs: Nashira
Feet: Dusk

If I was going to do it again...the only things I'd change would be rings (->Merman's/BQR) and possibly try to get some Coral Cuisses+1 made. Maybe steal someone's Trance Belt to use as well, or possibly something with more HP on it.

The only gear change I used was to switch to Terra's Staff/Cheviot Cape when JoL summoned, to cut down on damage a bit. The reasoning behind this is that some of our tanks are notorious for being impossible to target due to gear swaps, so I was trying to be a little more co-operative
It would be worthwhile to switch to MND gear for stoneskin, though.

What Delekii said is true - watch out for those aerial collisions.

http://tshot.org/darkshines/jol_aerial.jpg

Only happened once, fortunately...apparently it was due to astral flow.

[Delekii]

Changing gear on JoL isnt a big deal, since actions are a long time apart with no melee. You can switch into mind for stoneskin, cast, and change back to magic damage down between JoL spells, for eg.

[Carbon]

Noob question, would RDM/NIN be anything decent for JoL? I've got some pretty solid MDB and %Magic- gear. LS just really starting to dig into sea now and some tips would be nice, so I know where to fork over the cash. :/

This is what I have to use, tell me what I should use and what I need to get:

Macahutil+1 (x2)/ Genbu's Shield / Nms. Shield +1
Lamian Kaman +1(will get this)/Fenrir's Stone
Duelist's Chapeau/Wlk. Chapeau +1
Harmonia's Torque/Enhancing Torque
Hades Earring +1 (only one ; /Merman's Earring (x1)
Wlk. Tabard +1 (no dalm or AF2 body yet ; ; )
Duelist's Gloves
Merman's Ring (x2), Mermaid's Ring
Resentment Cape (will get this)/Lamia's Mantle +1
Warwolf Belt/Swift Belt / (is that MDB+2 spell -8% interrupt good?)
Wlk. Tights +1
Duelist's Boots

Suggestions? I have /war /nin /drk /whm /blm /brd

[Lhexh]

We use RDM/NIN for it, it works very well. Last few JoL we did we had RDM/NIN cotank with a RDM/BRD (pre-nerf) and the RDM/NIN outclassed the mazurka tank for hate. Not losing hate from eating Tier 4 spells has a fairly pronounced effect on hate, especially since RDM doesnt really need any spells/JAs from subjob to cap hate out quickly.

[Suiram]

Enough well-established and skilled LSs seem to use them enough to where I believe that it works, but I still don't personally understand how NIN or /NIN tanks (PLD/NIN or RDM/NIN in particular) hold hate better than someone with a SJ that provides more tools for increasing hate, given the frequency of AoE spells he uses and the availability of magic damage mitigation equipment.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Enough well-established and skilled LSs seem to use them enough to where I believe that it works, but I still don't personally understand how NIN or /NIN tanks (PLD/NIN or RDM/NIN in particular) hold hate better than someone with a SJ that provides more tools for increasing hate, given the frequency of AoE spells he uses and the availability of magic damage mitigation equipment.

the spells that that are used to increase enmity, such as Blind, Bind, Dispel, and Sleep (RDM/NIN) are all less to cast than Flash, with the exception of Dispel which is the same cost. Quality (enmity+) and quantity (spamming the crap out of those spells due to low recast times) together bring hate levels up very high in a short amount of time.

little off-topic but I tried PLD/RDM last JoL and the hate was great. MP was never low maybe once the whole fight and Chivalry filled in the gap nicely.

[zhan]

This is what I have to use, tell me what I should use and what I need to get:

Macahutil+1 (x2)/ Genbu's Shield / Nms. Shield +1
Lamian Kaman +1(will get this)/Fenrir's Stone
Duelist's Chapeau/Wlk. Chapeau +1
Harmonia's Torque/Enhancing Torque
Hades Earring +1 (only one ; /Merman's Earring (x1)
Wlk. Tabard +1 (no dalm or AF2 body yet ; ; )
Duelist's Gloves
Merman's Ring (x2), Mermaid's Ring
Resentment Cape (will get this)/Lamia's Mantle +1
Warwolf Belt/Swift Belt / (is that MDB+2 spell -8% interrupt good?)
Wlk. Tights +1
Duelist's Boots

Suggestions? I have /war /nin /drk /whm /blm /brd

Eris Earring + 1 x 2, Trance Belt, some others that I cant think of right now <_<.

As for subs I'd say /drk or /war would be best since no more /brd, but I'm kinda curious how /nin would hold up...

[Suiram]

the spells that that are used to increase enmity, such as Blind, Bind, Dispel, and Sleep (RDM/NIN) are all less to cast than Flash, with the exception of Dispel which is the same cost. Quality (enmity+) and quantity (spamming the crap out of those spells due to low recast times) together bring hate levels up very high in a short amount of time.

little off-topic but I tried PLD/RDM last JoL and the hate was great. MP was never low maybe once the whole fight and Chivalry filled in the gap nicely.

I believe you missed my point. I was referring to using /NIN vs. another sub. Unless you meant to quote someone else?

[Delekii]

I dont know how a RDM/BRD tank could have POSSIBLY lost hate to a RDM/NIN tank seeing as I said earlier, a Tier4 from JoL will not break an appropriately geared RDM stoneskin (thereby not losing any hate in the same fashion as a RDM/NIN). RDM/BRD had mazurka as well as all the same tools that a RDM/NIN had.

In any event, its kind of irrelevent now.

If you subscribe to the "hate has a cap" magazine, its not hard to see why rdm/nin works well compared to other subs. Debuffs have adequately high hate and you have 4 of them, so with haste gear you can literally spam them, so the lack of stun from /drk or provoke from /war becomes unimportant. The difference is that they are not quite as much hate individually, so it can take slightly longer to build up hate to optimum levels.

[Crizto]

RDM/NIN would just need more time to build up hate and keep it constant. The only problem I see with it is that the Kraken DRK's might steal hate a bit easier. What made RDM/BRD so great was even when you lost a bit of hate, the mazurka was able to spike it right back up there to its cap, but as a RDM/NIN, building up lost hate will take longer.

[Grey Jorildyn]

the spells that that are used to increase enmity, such as Blind, Bind, Dispel, and Sleep (RDM/NIN) are all less to cast than Flash, with the exception of Dispel which is the same cost. Quality (enmity+) and quantity (spamming the crap out of those spells due to low recast times) together bring hate levels up very high in a short amount of time.

little off-topic but I tried PLD/RDM last JoL and the hate was great. MP was never low maybe once the whole fight and Chivalry filled in the gap nicely.

I believe you missed my point. I was referring to using /NIN vs. another sub. Unless you meant to quote someone else?

and i was stating what you directly stated you did not understand. did i miss something?

[Lhexh]

Once you understand the concept of a hate cap, which some people do and other people refuse to believe, it's easy to understand why anything but /NIN is overkill for a RDM. Mazurka used to be a massive amount of enmity every 12 seconds or so but once you are capped out it became pointless since you would spend 3 seconds singing a song that for all intents and purposes generated the same hate as casting a single blind/dispel would have.

A RDM/anything can hit that cap fairly easily, in around 2-3 minutes normally, or under 30 seconds if they use chainspell. At that point the cheapest RDM main spells are the most efficient way to keep hate capped so anything subjob provides to help generate hate is somewhat overkill.

The only real advantages mazurka had was the quick turnout around to rebuild hate if you got charmed or died to Astral Flow where the Phuabos popped with TP, since 2 mazurkas in full enmity was enough to do the same, or to generate the hate from outside the main alliance.

We did 2 more Jailer of Loves last night, used a RDM/NIN + PLD/NIN to tank and the RDM/NIN solo tanked the entire fight save for getting charmed once and dying to phuabos. We also used 100% Kraken DRK damage, rotating 3 or 4 DRKs every few minutes as WHM MP dictated, and didn't have a single DRK death on the first Love... second Love got some revenge and killed Ruk which made for a good chuckle.

[algrensan]

when we did jol, we had pld/rdm, rdm/whm, and nin/drk tanking. you can ask blacklore or rainesong for their rdm tanking gear if you're on asura. all had some kind of -magic damage, magic defense bonus, elemental resist, and enmity gear macro'd. whm with barspell merits+gear w/ shellra v helps also. brd with carol too. hope that helps.

[Suiram]

and i was stating what you directly stated you did not understand. did i miss something?

Sorry, I think it was I who misread your response lol I first read it as a justification for not using /NIN, but as I read it again now you are saying, "RDM can do enough to stay at hate cap as it is, so may as well sub NIN"?

[Grey Jorildyn]

and i was stating what you directly stated you did not understand. did i miss something?

Sorry, I think it was I who misread your response lol I first read it as a justification for not using /NIN, but as I read it again now you are saying, "RDM can do enough to stay at hate cap as it is, so may as well sub NIN"?

pretty much.

[Therin]

Regarding subs, we used RDM/BRD a few times before the last update. Before Raptor Mazurka we used RDM/WAR, but we were actually talking about this in LS the other day, and it's possible RDM/DRK would actually be better for the same reasons NIN/DRK beats NIN/WAR in general (although to a slightly lesser degree because RDM/WAR has bind and sleep already).

Also I should add that we've never used only RDM tanks, typically PLD+RDM co-tanks, with varying subs.

Last time we did JoL, I went PLD/DRK and didn't lose hate once from 80% (when I came in) all the way down to 0 (co-tank was PLD/WAR). >_> Even when our DRK used Souleater Kraken, it stayed glued to me. It's pretty ridiculous the hate that PLD/DRK can get. Good thing I'm not Chiz, else I'd probably use it on other shit!