Question about Sleep stacking from a non-Mage

[Vedder]

OK, so according to the Wiki (so take it for what it's worth)... the Sleep spell lasts 25 game minutes. I understand that it can vary due to a number of factors, but let's just go with it for this example.

In this example, let's assume that a Mage successfully casts Sleep on a mob. It's merrily sleeping...

If the Mage then casts the same Sleep spell again 20 game minutes later, what happens?

Does the Sleep effect start over again and the mobs "sleep time" begins again at zero? Or does it have essentially no effect... and the mob will wake up again in 5 more game minutes?

If the answer is the latter, does Sleep II overwrite the Sleep I effect and start the mobs "sleep time" over again?

Essentially... I am wondering the mechanics of how Sleep stacks and such. I understand that resists can be a variable in these scenarios, but I'd like to know if it's possible to just keep on re-sleeping mobs without having to wait on them waking up.

For the record, I think it is... I'm just looking for some independent confirmation.

Thanks.

[Auspice]

Sleep II overwrites Sleep but if you cast Sleep then recast it 20 game minutes later, the spell will have no effect.

[Byrd]

If the Mage then casts the same Sleep spell again 20 game minutes later, what happens?

The spell has no effect.

If the answer is the latter, does Sleep II overwrite the Sleep I effect and start the mobs "sleep time" over again?

Yes. Sleep II overwrites Sleep I, but will have no affect overwriting a sleep II. A mage can hit a mob with Sleep I, wait 45-50 seconds and hit the same mob with Sleep II, effectively keeping a mob slept and placid for close to three minutes.

Sleep and Sleepga and equals, as are Sleep II and Sleepga. So if a BLM has to sleep a bunch of mobs, it's often better for him to use Sleepga, as RDM, other BLM's or even the original BLM can Sleep II some of the mobs so as to stagger the wake times.

Regarding reists, a RDM with an Enfeebling skill of 300+ and a Dark/Pluto's Staff should have minimal to no partial resists. My 344 Enfeebling Skill + Pluto's Staff give me probably an average of one full resist and zero partial resists per Dynamis. (Barring, of course, PLD-type repop mobs or Xarc NM's)

[Delekii]

In terms of heirarchy,

{Sleep = Sleepga = Foe Lullaby = Horde Lullaby = Light Shot = Shiva sleepga = Diabolos sleepga(?)}
<
{Sleep 2 = Sleepga 2}

Duration is irrelevent to one overwriting another. If a spell is equal or less than the current it "has no effect", otherwise it is a completely new duration.

[Wizerd]

From what I understand, Sleep lasts exactly 60 seconds on a full hit, and Sleep II lasts exactly 90 seconds on a full hit. Resists are in halves, quarters, etc, just like other magic spells, up to and including a full resist.

[careswww]

I always wondered, if, say, a RDM casts sleep 1 on a mob with no resist. And I cast Sleep2 on it afterwards, with DRK with no chance to actually land it, will it last the full duration?

[Delekii]

I always wondered, if, say, a RDM casts sleep 1 on a mob with no resist. And I cast Sleep2 on it afterwards, with DRK with no chance to actually land it, will it last the full duration?

?

If your spell gets resisted outright, the original sleep lasts the rest of the duration it would have lasted if you hadn't cast.

If your spell lands, it is calculated as a totally new sleep spell with its own new duration, subject to partial resists as normal.

The fact that sleep 1 is on the mob has absolutely no bearing on the casting of sleep 2 on the same mob - sleep 2 is considered a new and separate spell.

[Sylphet]

I always wondered, if, say, a RDM casts sleep 1 on a mob with no resist. And I cast Sleep2 on it afterwards, with DRK with no chance to actually land it, will it last the full duration?

Assuming I'm reading this correctly:

RDM casts Sleep I
DRK casts Sleep II (but with gimped enfeebling magic skill so not likely to land it)

either one of 2 things will happen

1: Your Sleep II will be resited (it tells you this even if the mob is already asleep)
2: Your Sleep II will land and overwrite Sleep I but be subject to the normal variables that determine sleep duration.

Even if the mob is already slept you can tell if your spell would have landed by the text.
"has no effect on XYZ" = you would have landed the spell but the mob was already asleep so there's no effect.
vs.
"resists the spell!" = you did not land the spell

[Vedder]

If the Mage then casts the same Sleep spell again 20 game minutes later, what happens?

The spell has no effect.

Ok... thanks for the info. I can't recall from memory, but does a "So & So's Sleep has no effect" message display in this scenario? Or does it say the mob is slept... but the effect wears based on the original Sleep, not the re-Sleep?

[Delekii]

If the Mage then casts the same Sleep spell again 20 game minutes later, what happens?

The spell has no effect.

Ok... thanks for the info. I can't recall from memory, but does a "So & So's Sleep has no effect" message display in this scenario? Or does it say the mob is slept... but the effect wears based on the original Sleep, not the re-Sleep?

It will say "XYZ casts sleep. ABC resists the spell!", and then the spell will wear off as par course from the original spell.

[Obev]

If the Mage then casts the same Sleep spell again 20 game minutes later, what happens?

The spell has no effect.

Ok... thanks for the info. I can't recall from memory, but does a "So & So's Sleep has no effect" message display in this scenario? Or does it say the mob is slept... but the effect wears based on the original Sleep, not the re-Sleep?

It will say "XYZ casts sleep. ABC resists the spell!", and then the spell will wear off as par course from the original spell.

No, it says no effect rather than resist. I'll go outside and sleep some colibri to show you after this besieged is done.

[Aeromyth]

In addition to the sleep having no effect, it will contribute to the mobs overall sleep resistance.
In the case of HNMs with acquired sleep resistance (patched wyrms: Fafhog, Tiamat, etc.) that failed sleep, and any successful sleep will reduce the total duration of an unresisted sleep. For example, if you cast sleep it will last 60 seconds, the next sleep may only last 58 seconds, then 56 seconds, and so on. This is true even with elemental seal.
In my personal experience on Tiamat the reduction in the total sleep duration is close to 4 seconds for each Sleep II.
If you are considering spamming sleep for hate, even if they are unsuccessful, it will reduce the time the mob will sleep if you need to ES Sleep it in an emergency at a later time.

[Ravenlokk]

...

So if a BLM has to sleep a bunch of mobs, it's often better for him to use Sleepga, as RDM, other BLM's or even the original BLM can Sleep II some of the mobs so as to stagger the wake times....

QFT HAVE MY FUCKING BABIES. You have no fucking idea how much sleepga2 pisses me off in dynamis when im RDM.

[Dammerung]

I always wondered, if, say, a RDM casts sleep 1 on a mob with no resist. And I cast Sleep2 on it afterwards, with DRK with no chance to actually land it, will it last the full duration?

Assuming I'm reading this correctly:

RDM casts Sleep I
DRK casts Sleep II (but with gimped enfeebling magic skill so not likely to land it)

either one of 2 things will happen

1: Your Sleep II will be resited (it tells you this even if the mob is already asleep)
2: Your Sleep II will land and overwrite Sleep I but be subject to the normal variables that determine sleep duration.

Even if the mob is already slept you can tell if your spell would have landed by the text.
"has no effect on XYZ" = you would have landed the spell but the mob was already asleep so there's no effect.
vs.
"resists the spell!" = you did not land the spell

Nope. "has no effect" will show up regardless if you would have landed it or not. Resist message will only show up if the mob does not have that debuff on it and your spell was resisted.

---

I saw an interesting windower macro set a while ago that timed sleep 1/2 duration for you and gave you countdowns in /echo, but when I tried to put this together for myself, using pause or wait, this applied globally to all windower macros, i.e. I hit my sleep macro and it's starting so all is good, but then when I hit an equip macro it won't go off until the sleep counter finishes. Is there any way around this?

[Crosis]

QFT HAVE MY FUCKING BABIES. You have no fucking idea how much sleepga2 pisses me off in dynamis when im RDM.

Maybe it's just me but I find in Dynamis Sleepga often gets resisted a lot more then Sleepga II does as BLM. Same with Sleep vs Sleep II. Usually if my Sleepga gets off first I tend to get my face smashed so I go for Sleepga II instead which appears more reliable.

Fun factoid about Shiva Sleepga, the animation is clearly that of Sleepga II and the duration lasts just as long but it will not overwrite any other type of sleep already on a mob oddly.

[Kaylia]

While we are at it, I'm going to ask a question I want to ask for a long time. Is it possible that sleep 2 get resisted when the monster is already under the effect of sleep 1? I dont remember ever getting resisted when sleep 1 was on

QFT HAVE MY FUCKING BABIES. You have no fucking idea how much sleepga2 pisses me off in dynamis when im RDM.

Blm not using sleepga 2 in dyna is a waste, unless you have too many rdm in your raid. Monsters should be dead by the time they wake up from the first sleepga, and if they are not, you can just sleep them again easily. >_> I always go with sleepga II first since it's the longest one to cast, than sleepga 1 to catch the remaining mobs if it was a huge pull.

That said, call me crazy but resist rate seem to be higher with sleepga 1 than 2.

[fantasticdan]

In terms of heirarchy,

{Sleep = Sleepga = Foe Lullaby = Horde Lullaby = Light Shot = Shiva sleepga = Diabolos sleepga(?)}
<
{Sleep 2 = Sleepga 2}

To add to that, soporific, sheep song, and yawn are all tier 1 as well.

[Vail]

Tier II sleep spells do have a higher built in magic accuracy bonus.

While we are at it, I'm going to ask a question I want to ask for a long time. Is it possible that sleep 2 get resisted when the monster is already under the effect of sleep 1? I dont remember ever getting resisted when sleep 1 was on

it's hard to tell but I'm sure it can be resisted, as I stated above, sleep II is alot more accurate then sleep I. Also for me (as a rdm) it's pretty rare for something to resist me without the "Resist!" trait stoping me.

In small group dynamis (single ally or less) It's highly desireable to have a rdm use sleepga on pulls, and have different blm and rdm pick 1-2 mobs for sleep II over-lay, keeps mages safer only have to deal with 2 mobs waking up then 5-8 going after one blm. Just my thoughts.

[izembo]

I always wondered, if, say, a RDM casts sleep 1 on a mob with no resist. And I cast Sleep2 on it afterwards, with DRK with no chance to actually land it, will it last the full duration?

Assuming I'm reading this correctly:

RDM casts Sleep I
DRK casts Sleep II (but with gimped enfeebling magic skill so not likely to land it)

either one of 2 things will happen

1: Your Sleep II will be resited (it tells you this even if the mob is already asleep)
2: Your Sleep II will land and overwrite Sleep I but be subject to the normal variables that determine sleep duration.

Even if the mob is already slept you can tell if your spell would have landed by the text.
"has no effect on XYZ" = you would have landed the spell but the mob was already asleep so there's no effect.
vs.
"resists the spell!" = you did not land the spell

Nope. "has no effect" will show up regardless if you would have landed it or not. Resist message will only show up if the mob does not have that debuff on it and your spell was resisted.

---

I saw an interesting windower macro set a while ago that timed sleep 1/2 duration for you and gave you countdowns in /echo, but when I tried to put this together for myself, using pause or wait, this applied globally to all windower macros, i.e. I hit my sleep macro and it's starting so all is good, but then when I hit an equip macro it won't go off until the sleep counter finishes. Is there any way around this?

nope, has no effect does not show up if you get a resist when the mob has it on, it does indeed show a resists the spell message.

[D-rod]

Regarding reists, a RDM with an Enfeebling skill of 300+ and a Dark/Pluto's Staff should have minimal to no partial resists. My 344 Enfeebling Skill + Pluto's Staff give me probably an average of one full resist and zero partial resists per Dynamis. (Barring, of course, PLD-type repop mobs or Xarc NM's)

Regarding your 344 skill, am at 342 missing windy bracelets is this a typo? or is there a piece of enfeeble skill gear that am completely unaware of?


Edit: Nvm you are probably missing cape/legs and counting windy hands, since your post is using dynamis as reference where (windy hands would work).