Question about Sleep stacking from a non-Mage

[Lylie]

While we are at it, I'm going to ask a question I want to ask for a long time. Is it possible that sleep 2 get resisted when the monster is already under the effect of sleep 1? I dont remember ever getting resisted when sleep 1 was on

In almost 2 years of playing RDM, I don't remember, ever, being resisted on Sleep II after it's been slept with Sleep I.

That said, call me crazy but resist rate seem to be higher with sleepga 1 than 2.

That would make sense to have little more resists with Sleepga I than II. That being said, I don't remember being resisted using Sleepga I in Dynamis, thanks to the double Dark weather. Except NMs resist, and Statues which are not sleepable anyway, regular mobs all sleep like babies. Are you sure you're not confusing "Has no effect on Mob" which means it's already been slept, and "Mob resists the spell" which means you weren't able to sleep the mob?

Regarding your 344 skill, am at 342 missing windy bracelets is this a typo? or is there a piece of enfeeble skill gear that am completely unaware of?

Im not sure how you people get 340ish, but it's a plain and simple total waste of merits, money and inventory slots. I sit around 315 (not too sure, haven't really played my RDM or FFXI in a while) and I have never had any significant resist on anything in the game.

[D-rod]

Efficiency/potency, judging a mob's resist rate based on level/element and adding or subtracting skill/mind in specific slots can go a long long way. I don't know if u played rdm in a hnm fight, but having a potent slow with like 100% landing rate in any of those fights will make those fight 10 times easier. Generally speaking I hardly ever use my full enfeeble set up @342.

[Seditedi]

Yea, full enfeebling set is a waste for most fights depending on which enfeeble is being casted.... on HNM it'll be nice to have a pretty high enfeebling skill while keeping some decent MND as well.
Enfeebling shouldn't be maxed out if its unnecessary to land the enfeeble. If you land slow or paralyze at 350 enfeebling or w/e max is then you will have a very weak slow % and a paralyze that most likely will not proc.

[Kaylia]

That would make sense to have little more resists with Sleepga I than II. That being said, I don't remember being resisted using Sleepga I in Dynamis, thanks to the double Dark weather. Except NMs resist, and Statues which are not sleepable anyway, regular mobs all sleep like babies. Are you sure you're not confusing "Has no effect on Mob" which means it's already been slept, and "Mob resists the spell" which means you weren't able to sleep the mob?

Pld are being a pain with their sleep resist in xarc, but that's about it. i dont think I ever get resisted in the 4 city tho, demon will resist once in a while.

[Khamsin]

As long as we're on the Sleep subject, will Sleep cast with an Anrin Obi during dark day/weather be subject to normal resists, then have +10% tacked on? e.g. you cast Sleep in Apollyon, and it gets half resisted. Will the sleep duration be 50% x 1.10 = 55% of normal?

[Jeryhn]

As long as we're on the Sleep subject, will Sleep cast with an Anrin Obi during dark day/weather be subject to normal resists, then have +10% tacked on? e.g. you cast Sleep in Apollyon, and it gets half resisted. Will the sleep duration be 50% x 1.10 = 55% of normal?

No, because obis do not effect enfeebling potency. Only accuracy.

[Panella]

While we are at it, I'm going to ask a question I want to ask for a long time. Is it possible that sleep 2 get resisted when the monster is already under the effect of sleep 1? I dont remember ever getting resisted when sleep 1 was on

In almost 2 years of playing RDM, I don't remember, ever, being resisted on Sleep II after it's been slept with Sleep I.

It only happened to me twice I believe but it's definately possible to resist a Sleep II on a slept mob. Both were ENM mobs if it makes a difference though.

[Dammerung]

nope, has no effect does not show up if you get a resist when the mob has it on, it does indeed show a resists the spell message.

Go test on something. I assure you I do not have 80% accuracy with slow on cerberus or khimaira as a whm, I toss out slow to see if it wore off or not yet, and if I get resist message, I follow up with ES+Slow. If it has no effect, that means the mob is still slow. It works the same way for sleeps, if I toss out non-es sleepga in Dynamis right after another sleepga was up, I get constant "has no effect" message, whereas if mine was first to land, it has a few mobs slept and the rest resist.

[Khamsin]

nope, has no effect does not show up if you get a resist when the mob has it on, it does indeed show a resists the spell message.

Go test on something. I assure you I do not have 80% accuracy with slow on cerberus or khimaira as a whm, I toss out slow to see if it wore off or not yet, and if I get resist message, I follow up with ES+Slow. If it has no effect, that means the mob is still slow. It works the same way for sleeps, if I toss out non-es sleepga in Dynamis right after another sleepga was up, I get constant "has no effect" message, whereas if mine was first to land, it has a few mobs slept and the rest resist.

Except the "resist" message is inconclusive. You don't know whether or not it's still on or not, only that you got resisted. When you see "no effect", then you know you weren't resisted, but it just already had the effect.

e.g. I cast Sleep on a mob that is already asleep, and I will see either "resist" which means that, regardless of whether or not the mob was sleeping, I got resisted. Or I will see "no effect" which means that I successfully landed the spell, but the effect was already on.

An example of this is in, say, Bahamut 2 when you are trying to dispel Shell. If I cast Dispel and see "resist", I do not know if shell is on or not. But if I cast Dispel and see "no effect", I can confidently say shell is off. On Khimaira, casting Slow and getting "resist" does not mean Slow isn't on. You won't know for sure until you get "no effect".

[izembo]

nope, has no effect does not show up if you get a resist when the mob has it on, it does indeed show a resists the spell message.

Go test on something. I assure you I do not have 80% accuracy with slow on cerberus or khimaira as a whm, I toss out slow to see if it wore off or not yet, and if I get resist message, I follow up with ES+Slow. If it has no effect, that means the mob is still slow. It works the same way for sleeps, if I toss out non-es sleepga in Dynamis right after another sleepga was up, I get constant "has no effect" message, whereas if mine was first to land, it has a few mobs slept and the rest resist.

i assure you i have seen it numerous times.

[Demetrius*]

As long as we're on the Sleep subject, will Sleep cast with an Anrin Obi during dark day/weather be subject to normal resists, then have +10% tacked on? e.g. you cast Sleep in Apollyon, and it gets half resisted. Will the sleep duration be 50% x 1.10 = 55% of normal?

No, because obis do not effect enfeebling potency. Only accuracy.

accuracy? really? are there any definative tests on that?

[Lylie]

As long as we're on the Sleep subject, will Sleep cast with an Anrin Obi during dark day/weather be subject to normal resists, then have +10% tacked on? e.g. you cast Sleep in Apollyon, and it gets half resisted. Will the sleep duration be 50% x 1.10 = 55% of normal?

No, because obis do not effect enfeebling potency. Only accuracy.

Actually... No. Obis only affect nuke potency, meaning, if you'd nuke for 1000dmg without one, you will nuke for 1100dmg with one (assuming you get only 1 bonus, on same mob, same spell, no resist). It does not affect accuracy, as in, magic accuracy / resist rate.

accuracy? really? are there any definative tests on that?

I don't know of any tests on them, but I think it's pretty common knowledge that Obis only affect nuke potency, not nuke accuracy nor Enfeebling accuracy / potency.

[Dammerung]

nope, has no effect does not show up if you get a resist when the mob has it on, it does indeed show a resists the spell message.

Go test on something. I assure you I do not have 80% accuracy with slow on cerberus or khimaira as a whm, I toss out slow to see if it wore off or not yet, and if I get resist message, I follow up with ES+Slow. If it has no effect, that means the mob is still slow. It works the same way for sleeps, if I toss out non-es sleepga in Dynamis right after another sleepga was up, I get constant "has no effect" message, whereas if mine was first to land, it has a few mobs slept and the rest resist.

Except the "resist" message is inconclusive. You don't know whether or not it's still on or not, only that you got resisted. When you see "no effect", then you know you weren't resisted, but it just already had the effect.

e.g. I cast Sleep on a mob that is already asleep, and I will see either "resist" which means that, regardless of whether or not the mob was sleeping, I got resisted. Or I will see "no effect" which means that I successfully landed the spell, but the effect was already on.

An example of this is in, say, Bahamut 2 when you are trying to dispel Shell. If I cast Dispel and see "resist", I do not know if shell is on or not. But if I cast Dispel and see "no effect", I can confidently say shell is off. On Khimaira, casting Slow and getting "resist" does not mean Slow isn't on. You won't know for sure until you get "no effect".

It is conclusive. Here's some screenshots I just went out to test... ES+Sleepga was fully resisted, then some more Sleepga which were also 100% resisted, and as soon as one was asleep, that one got the no effect message, and the rest resisted. Then hoarde lullaby, and all gave no effect.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3...3016qt1.th.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/972...3134wb6.th.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9...3253yj0.th.jpg

If the mob has the debuff on, it will give the "no effect" message. I should have tested with Sleep II but I forgot.

[aurik]

accuracy? really? are there any definative tests on that?

I don't know of any tests on them, but I think it's pretty common knowledge that Obis only affect nuke potency, not nuke accuracy nor Enfeebling accuracy / potency.

I wouldn't call it "common knowledge", and I can't think of any evidence one way or the other, so if you have any please share it.

[Seditedi]

accuracy? really? are there any definative tests on that?

I don't know of any tests on them, but I think it's pretty common knowledge that Obis only affect nuke potency, not nuke accuracy nor Enfeebling accuracy / potency.

I wouldn't call it "common knowledge", and I can't think of any evidence one way or the other, so if you have any please share it.

Kinda hard to prove that they affect Magic accuracy, tbh I seem to get more resists on nukes when I'm using obi anyway.. lol

[Khamsin]

nope, has no effect does not show up if you get a resist when the mob has it on, it does indeed show a resists the spell message.

Go test on something. I assure you I do not have 80% accuracy with slow on cerberus or khimaira as a whm, I toss out slow to see if it wore off or not yet, and if I get resist message, I follow up with ES+Slow. If it has no effect, that means the mob is still slow. It works the same way for sleeps, if I toss out non-es sleepga in Dynamis right after another sleepga was up, I get constant "has no effect" message, whereas if mine was first to land, it has a few mobs slept and the rest resist.

Except the "resist" message is inconclusive. You don't know whether or not it's still on or not, only that you got resisted. When you see "no effect", then you know you weren't resisted, but it just already had the effect.

e.g. I cast Sleep on a mob that is already asleep, and I will see either "resist" which means that, regardless of whether or not the mob was sleeping, I got resisted. Or I will see "no effect" which means that I successfully landed the spell, but the effect was already on.

An example of this is in, say, Bahamut 2 when you are trying to dispel Shell. If I cast Dispel and see "resist", I do not know if shell is on or not. But if I cast Dispel and see "no effect", I can confidently say shell is off. On Khimaira, casting Slow and getting "resist" does not mean Slow isn't on. You won't know for sure until you get "no effect".

It is conclusive. Here's some screenshots I just went out to test... ES+Sleepga was fully resisted, then some more Sleepga which were also 100% resisted, and as soon as one was asleep, that one got the no effect message, and the rest resisted. Then hoarde lullaby, and all gave no effect.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3...3016qt1.th.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/972...3134wb6.th.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9...3253yj0.th.jpg

If the mob has the debuff on, it will give the "no effect" message. I should have tested with Sleep II but I forgot.

That's odd, since when I cast a debuff like slow on a mob that already has it on, I've seen cases before where I get the resist message rather than the "no effect" message. At least, I could have sworn I did. I've also dispelled B2 and gotten a "resist" message, then tried again and gotten "no effect" the next cast (which means another RDM beat me to it, but nobody dispelled between my attempts).

[Vail]

accuracy? really? are there any definative tests on that?

I don't know of any tests on them, but I think it's pretty common knowledge that Obis only affect nuke potency, not nuke accuracy nor Enfeebling accuracy / potency.

I wouldn't call it "common knowledge", and I can't think of any evidence one way or the other, so if you have any please share it.

Kinda hard to prove that they affect Magic accuracy, tbh I seem to get more resists on nukes when I'm using obi anyway.. lol

I stick to my gut feeling, and that is that Obi's (when in right day/weather conditions) don't enhancing magic accuracy.

[Lylie]

Kind of necro... But just to answer the "Can Sleep II be resisted when it's already slept with Sleep I" question. Was soloing as BLM on Qiqirn in Aydeewa place.

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9170/sleep12gb5.png

P.S: the "Qiqirn is no longer asleep" happened like 20~ish seconds after Sleep II had been resisted.

[izembo]

nope, has no effect does not show up if you get a resist when the mob has it on, it does indeed show a resists the spell message.

Go test on something. I assure you I do not have 80% accuracy with slow on cerberus or khimaira as a whm, I toss out slow to see if it wore off or not yet, and if I get resist message, I follow up with ES+Slow. If it has no effect, that means the mob is still slow. It works the same way for sleeps, if I toss out non-es sleepga in Dynamis right after another sleepga was up, I get constant "has no effect" message, whereas if mine was first to land, it has a few mobs slept and the rest resist.

Except the "resist" message is inconclusive. You don't know whether or not it's still on or not, only that you got resisted. When you see "no effect", then you know you weren't resisted, but it just already had the effect.

e.g. I cast Sleep on a mob that is already asleep, and I will see either "resist" which means that, regardless of whether or not the mob was sleeping, I got resisted. Or I will see "no effect" which means that I successfully landed the spell, but the effect was already on.

An example of this is in, say, Bahamut 2 when you are trying to dispel Shell. If I cast Dispel and see "resist", I do not know if shell is on or not. But if I cast Dispel and see "no effect", I can confidently say shell is off. On Khimaira, casting Slow and getting "resist" does not mean Slow isn't on. You won't know for sure until you get "no effect".

It is conclusive. Here's some screenshots I just went out to test... ES+Sleepga was fully resisted, then some more Sleepga which were also 100% resisted, and as soon as one was asleep, that one got the no effect message, and the rest resisted. Then hoarde lullaby, and all gave no effect.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3...3016qt1.th.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/972...3134wb6.th.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9...3253yj0.th.jpg

If the mob has the debuff on, it will give the "no effect" message. I should have tested with Sleep II but I forgot.

That's odd, since when I cast a debuff like slow on a mob that already has it on, I've seen cases before where I get the resist message rather than the "no effect" message. At least, I could have sworn I did. I've also dispelled B2 and gotten a "resist" message, then tried again and gotten "no effect" the next cast (which means another RDM beat me to it, but nobody dispelled between my attempts).

yea, sleep isnt the right spell to rest it with, especially on undead.

[Raineer]

In small group dynamis (single ally or less) It's highly desireable to have a rdm use sleepga on pulls, and have different blm and rdm pick 1-2 mobs for sleep II over-lay, keeps mages safer only have to deal with 2 mobs waking up then 5-8 going after one blm. Just my thoughts.

QFT, sleepga2 is the spell of the fucking devil.

As for the obi's purpose to an RDM...for me it was nukes and enspells, that was all. I don't believe it has anything to do with potency or duration to enfeebles, and no I have no screenshots to prove it.